Prove (or at least show) how this is done by a small entity, without risk.
Big players can lease silver and earn the lease rate. But that is not without risk because the lessee can default.
.
OK. Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes is a good investment for the time being. One can then use 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences. Here is an example from this summer - the result - $408 TAX FREE.
Of course one would only do this if one thought silver would be a good investment.
.
.
"Income" is what you earn without diminishing your principal or asset holding.
What you illustrate appears to be a periodic selling off of assets, not an "income stream".
Or is there something else to it ?
That is not good at 30x. Current melt is theoretically 44x. That would be about 32% under melt for $999 (or less) face
Recent sales of small lots of 90% silver on eBay are about 40x to 42x. Minus the eBay fees that is still a net of about 35x to 37x.
.
Hmmm...kinda puts that ETF annual fee into perspective doesn't it?
Theoretical value of 44 and net of 36, for an 18% discount. Thats like, what, the equivalent of 30 years worth of 0.50% annual fee?
It is very, very simple:
If people are selling at 36x, then buy at 36x, not 44x.
That shouldn't be so hard to figure out, but I guess it is for some "folk".
And if you buy at 36x, eventually premiums could normalize on 90% coin and and net you a better gain than SLV (which only has a declining premium).
.
Lol. "If", "could", "eventually". Haha. For years you folk said buy at spot or even pay premium. Now we folk are supposed to accept 85% of spot? Well, crack me a corncob pipe. Lol
And y'all made fun of blitz for buying at spot and selling at spot. Bizarro world indeed.
Folk are having to call all around the country to find an acceptable counter-party. I am loving all this unfold, as expected.
I cant wait till it hits 225 and y'all are wondering why you cant get more than 150 for it.
.
Yes, all of us "poor" precious metals speculators, we have all done so poorly over the last few years. We should have listened to your advice and stuck with commissioned financial planners (such as yourself) who would have sold us life insurance policies and annuities. Not.
Sub-999 silver is on sale right now. The best time to buy something is when it is on sale. 90% coin has sort of a built-in insurance mechanism with it.
You fail to realize (again) that the market price of physical silver is always less volatile than the "paper" price. When the "spot" price spikes up, physical silver lags behind (for a time). When the "spot" price drops, premiums on physical silver items increases (thus insulating the holder somewhat from the losses).
If you want to speculate (gamble) on the volatile swings of "paper" silver, then go ahead, be a click addict.
Silver Eagle premiums are, what, a $1 per coin right now (I'm guessing) ?
If the "spot" price of silver were to drop to $40 or even $30, a lot of people would probably decide not to sell them. This could drive the premiums back up to $5 or even $10 like they have been previously.
Consider another scenario:
Suppose the "spot" price of silver stays roughly stagnant from here, for the next couple years.
Holders of SLV would earn nothing. In fact, they would lose half a percent per year even if the silver price was completely unchanged.
The premiums on 90% coin would likely normalize over time. Buyers of 90% coin who paid the current 36x to 40x price, could earn a profit when sub-999 silver is not discounted like it is now. So buy now at 40x and sell in the future for 44x, even if the price of silver remains unchanged.
.
Lol. You sure like to assume a lot. Too funny.
Dude...heres the facts and you can verify in this forum. 3 years ago we ran a thread on premiums. ASEs were offered at 45-50. And now, after spot has doubled, those same ASEs are getting folk 60, for a whopping 20-25%. Yippee!!! But, no cents trying to talk sense to you because you obviously think paying premiums was the right thing to do.
You can "if" and "maybe" and "suppose" all you want about the future, but the past reveals the truth.
That is not good at 30x. Current melt is theoretically 44x. That would be about 32% under melt for $999 (or less) face
Recent sales of small lots of 90% silver on eBay are about 40x to 42x. Minus the eBay fees that is still a net of about 35x to 37x.
.
Hmmm...kinda puts that ETF annual fee into perspective doesn't it?
Theoretical value of 44 and net of 36, for an 18% discount. Thats like, what, the equivalent of 30 years worth of 0.50% annual fee?
It is very, very simple:
If people are selling at 36x, then buy at 36x, not 44x.
That shouldn't be so hard to figure out, but I guess it is for some "folk".
And if you buy at 36x, eventually premiums could normalize on 90% coin and and net you a better gain than SLV (which only has a declining premium).
.
Lol. "If", "could", "eventually". Haha. For years you folk said buy at spot or even pay premium. Now we folk are supposed to accept 85% of spot? Well, crack me a corncob pipe. Lol
And y'all made fun of blitz for buying at spot and selling at spot. Bizarro world indeed.
Folk are having to call all around the country to find an acceptable counter-party. I am loving all this unfold, as expected.
I cant wait till it hits 225 and y'all are wondering why you cant get more than 150 for it.
.
Yes, all of us "poor" precious metals speculators, we have all done so poorly over the last few years. We should have listened to your advice and stuck with commissioned financial planners (such as yourself) who would have sold us life insurance policies and annuities. Not.
Sub-999 silver is on sale right now. The best time to buy something is when it is on sale. 90% coin has sort of a built-in insurance mechanism with it.
You fail to realize (again) that the market price of physical silver is always less volatile than the "paper" price. When the "spot" price spikes up, physical silver lags behind (for a time). When the "spot" price drops, premiums on physical silver items increases (thus insulating the holder somewhat from the losses).
If you want to speculate (gamble) on the volatile swings of "paper" silver, then go ahead, be a click addict.
Silver Eagle premiums are, what, a $1 per coin right now (I'm guessing) ?
If the "spot" price of silver were to drop to $40 or even $30, a lot of people would probably decide not to sell them. This could drive the premiums back up to $5 or even $10 like they have been previously.
Consider another scenario:
Suppose the "spot" price of silver stays roughly stagnant from here, for the next couple years.
Holders of SLV would earn nothing. In fact, they would lose half a percent per year even if the silver price was completely unchanged.
The premiums on 90% coin would likely normalize over time. Buyers of 90% coin who paid the current 36x to 40x price, could earn a profit when sub-999 silver is not discounted like it is now. So buy now at 40x and sell in the future for 44x, even if the price of silver remains unchanged.
.
Lol. You sure like to assume a lot. Too funny.
Dude...heres the facts and you can verify in this forum. 3 years ago we ran a thread on premiums. ASEs were offered at 45-50. And now, after spot has doubled, those same ASEs are getting folk 60, for a whopping 20-25%. Yippee!!! But, no cents trying to talk sense to you because you obviously think paying premiums was the right thing to do.
You can "if" and "maybe" and "suppose" all you want about the future, but the past reveals the truth.
.
If you don't consider and theorize future scenarios, you are a lousy financial planner.
I have not seen you make any predictions here that really panned out.
I will reiterate and re-word my point so maybe it will be understood. I will use current "spot" price (about $62).
Suppose you want to speculate on silver at this time. But you are also concerned that the price might drop. You could buy SLV or Silver Eagles. Silver Eagles can be bought for about +$1 premium at this time.
If silver drops to $30:
You lose $32 with SLV.
It would be reasonable for Silver Eagle premiums to increase because people would be less inclined to sell them. If premiums increased to half what they were 3 years ago, Silver Eagles would be about $37. You would lose $25, not $32.
If silver stays the same (about $62):
You do not make anything with SLV.
Given time, Silver Eagle premiums would likely return to their historical normal (about +$3). So you would at least make a couple dollars while silver and SLV was flat.
If silver rises to $90:
You make $28 with SLV (assuming the management continues to perform on their obligations).
If the rise was rapid, Silver Eagle premiums would probably lag for a time. But I would not expect them to stabilize much lower than they are right now. So I think you would also make $28 with Silver Eagles.
If you want to gamble on volatility, click away with SLV.
For a longer-term holding, it makes no sense to buy and hold SLV instead of physical silver, especially when Silver Eagle premiums and 90% silver coin premiums are low as they are right now.
I was stating that Monex was overpriced, and YOU started gaslighting me. I never said anything about selling for 36X, but you implied here that I had some sort of laughable strategy. I never said that. Stop misquoting me.
You are not contributing to any understanding of precious metals here., and your BS gets very tiresome.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Prove (or at least show) how this is done by a small entity, without risk.
Big players can lease silver and earn the lease rate. But that is not without risk because the lessee can default.
.
OK. Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes is a good investment for the time being. One can then use 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences. Here is an example from this summer - the result - $408 TAX FREE.
Of course one would only do this if one thought silver would be a good investment.
.
.
"Income" is what you earn without diminishing your principal or asset holding.
What you illustrate appears to be a periodic selling off of assets, not an "income stream".
Or is there something else to it ?
.
Let me restate.
Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes currently would be a good investment. One can then make additional 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." These trades are in additional to the core holdings.
I sell short term out of the money SLV covered calls, usually $2-$3 out of the money, and usually for a week. Lately the weekly premium I receive is around $.70, so for 2000 shares (20 contracts) I receive slightly under $1400/week in premiums. It does cap the short-term upside (right now the calls I sold had a $56 strike price, so I'll have to either likely let them go, or buy them back.) If I do get called out, I consider that a good thing as I likely made 4-5% that week on the SLV position.
I have no desire to deal with the hassle of dealing with physically buying, transporting, storing, and selling physical silver. I also don't have to mess with any premium or spread.
Prove (or at least show) how this is done by a small entity, without risk.
Big players can lease silver and earn the lease rate. But that is not without risk because the lessee can default.
.
OK. Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes is a good investment for the time being. One can then use 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences. Here is an example from this summer - the result - $408 TAX FREE.
Of course one would only do this if one thought silver would be a good investment.
.
.
"Income" is what you earn without diminishing your principal or asset holding.
What you illustrate appears to be a periodic selling off of assets, not an "income stream".
Or is there something else to it ?
.
Let me restate.
Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes currently would be a good investment. One can then make additional 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." These trades are in additional to the core holdings.
I hope this helps.
.
That sounds like some sort of sleight-of-hand tax dodge (although I suppose it may be legal - this is not may area of expertise). Wouldn't you just as easily lose money on those 100-share trades ?
I sell short term out of the money SLV covered calls, usually $2-$3 out of the money, and usually for a week. Lately the weekly premium I receive is around $.70, so for 2000 shares (20 contracts) I receive slightly under $1400/week in premiums. It does cap the short-term upside (right now the calls I sold had a $56 strike price, so I'll have to either likely let them go, or buy them back.) If I do get called out, I consider that a good thing as I likely made 4-5% that week on the SLV position.
I have no desire to deal with the hassle of dealing with physically buying, transporting, storing, and selling physical silver. I also don't have to mess with any premium or spread.
.
That may work out well, but it seems more like a "trading strategy" with a little risk, rather than an "income stream".
@Wingsrule said:
You can sell covered calls and earn income with SLV
This is how dcarr. And no, im not going to explain it you.
And you could also lose your SLV investment potential also. You thought $50 was a SLV high a couple of weeks ago so sold some covered calls at $51 for a couple of pennies hoping your high call is right and it would expire worthless. Now at $60+, you either lose your SLV ETF growth & deliver the SLV or have do buy some other options to cover. Or you sold some way out of money calls at say $40. Now you got a bigger cash flow. When the price continues to go up, that option is worth more money so when assigned or covered, you lose again. Options aren't for beginnings, although covered calls all you lose is the growth potential vs Option sell price.
Prove (or at least show) how this is done by a small entity, without risk.
Big players can lease silver and earn the lease rate. But that is not without risk because the lessee can default.
.
OK. Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes is a good investment for the time being. One can then use 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences. Here is an example from this summer - the result - $408 TAX FREE.
Of course one would only do this if one thought silver would be a good investment.
.
.
"Income" is what you earn without diminishing your principal or asset holding.
What you illustrate appears to be a periodic selling off of assets, not an "income stream".
Or is there something else to it ?
.
Let me restate.
Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes currently would be a good investment. One can then make additional 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." These trades are in additional to the core holdings.
I hope this helps.
.
That sounds like some sort of sleight-of-hand tax dodge (although I suppose it may be legal - this is not may area of expertise). Wouldn't you just as easily lose money on those 100-share trades ?
.
Point #1 - "This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences."
Point #2 - It's separate from your core holdings and you just hold on or buy more. See trades 7/19 thru 9/19.
Prove (or at least show) how this is done by a small entity, without risk.
Big players can lease silver and earn the lease rate. But that is not without risk because the lessee can default.
.
OK. Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes is a good investment for the time being. One can then use 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences. Here is an example from this summer - the result - $408 TAX FREE.
Of course one would only do this if one thought silver would be a good investment.
.
.
"Income" is what you earn without diminishing your principal or asset holding.
What you illustrate appears to be a periodic selling off of assets, not an "income stream".
Or is there something else to it ?
.
Let me restate.
Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes currently would be a good investment. One can then make additional 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." These trades are in additional to the core holdings.
I hope this helps.
.
That sounds like some sort of sleight-of-hand tax dodge (although I suppose it may be legal - this is not may area of expertise). Wouldn't you just as easily lose money on those 100-share trades ?
.
Point #1 - "This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences."
Point #2 - It's separate from your core holdings and you just hold on or buy more. See trades 7/19 thru 9/19.
.
Those trades worked because the price of silver went up. It could have, almost as easily, gone the other way.
Again, I don't see this as an "income stream". It looks like just another speculation on the silver price.
Prove (or at least show) how this is done by a small entity, without risk.
Big players can lease silver and earn the lease rate. But that is not without risk because the lessee can default.
.
OK. Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes is a good investment for the time being. One can then use 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences. Here is an example from this summer - the result - $408 TAX FREE.
Of course one would only do this if one thought silver would be a good investment.
.
.
"Income" is what you earn without diminishing your principal or asset holding.
What you illustrate appears to be a periodic selling off of assets, not an "income stream".
Or is there something else to it ?
.
Let me restate.
Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes currently would be a good investment. One can then make additional 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." These trades are in additional to the core holdings.
I hope this helps.
.
That sounds like some sort of sleight-of-hand tax dodge (although I suppose it may be legal - this is not may area of expertise). Wouldn't you just as easily lose money on those 100-share trades ?
.
Point #1 - "This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences."
Point #2 - It's separate from your core holdings and you just hold on or buy more. See trades 7/19 thru 9/19.
.
Those trades worked because the price of silver went up. It could have, almost as easily, gone the other way.
Again, I don't see this as an "income stream". It looks like just another speculation on the silver price.
.
You are right, it only works when SLV is stuck in a trading range. I stopped trading SLV after 9/19 and still have my core SLV position.
Income stream means the investment pays some dividend, interest or misc income while you continue to hold the asset. Trading, even profitable, is not an income stream on the asset itself.
I was stating that Monex was overpriced, and YOU started gaslighting me. I never said anything about selling for 36X, but you implied here that I had some sort of laughable strategy. I never said that. Stop misquoting me.
You are not contributing to any understanding of precious metals here., and your BS gets very tiresome.
I did not quote you on saying to sell it for 36. Was you comment in italics? No, it wasn't. I did not misquote you, I simply added my own comment to which you apparently didnt read or understand and quickly went to some sort of attack. Chil out dude.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Income stream means the investment pays some dividend, interest or misc income while you continue to hold the asset. Trading, even profitable, is not an income stream on the asset itself.
How do you think coin dealers generate an income stream?
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Income stream means the investment pays some dividend, interest or misc income while you continue to hold the asset. Trading, even profitable, is not an income stream on the asset itself.
How do you think coin dealers generate an income stream?
Hopefully by turning and burning inventory at competitive pricing which keeps a never ending steady and growing
stream of profit (albeit tight margins) washing ashore. You didn't ask me, sorry about dis!
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Income stream means the investment pays some dividend, interest or misc income while you continue to hold the asset. Trading, even profitable, is not an income stream on the asset itself.
How do you think coin dealers generate an income stream?
.
They don't. They earn business revenue.
An "income stream" implies a passive investment.
Active trading is not a passive activity.
Comments
.
"Income" is what you earn without diminishing your principal or asset holding.
What you illustrate appears to be a periodic selling off of assets, not an "income stream".
Or is there something else to it ?
.
Or useless posts like this ^. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Lol. You sure like to assume a lot. Too funny.
Dude...heres the facts and you can verify in this forum. 3 years ago we ran a thread on premiums. ASEs were offered at 45-50. And now, after spot has doubled, those same ASEs are getting folk 60, for a whopping 20-25%. Yippee!!! But, no cents trying to talk sense to you because you obviously think paying premiums was the right thing to do.
You can "if" and "maybe" and "suppose" all you want about the future, but the past reveals the truth.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Please show the forum where I misquoted you. Enough of this gaslighting. The forum is tired of it.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Yeah...it's funny. Offer another opinion supported by fact, and you get torn apart (by the same folk). Thanks MsMorrisine for your efforts.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
This is how dcarr. And no, im not going to explain it you.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
So, anyone have a list of refiners who are buying .925 or .800 silver. Anyone able.to unload at their local shop? What price did you get?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
.
If you don't consider and theorize future scenarios, you are a lousy financial planner.
I have not seen you make any predictions here that really panned out.
I will reiterate and re-word my point so maybe it will be understood. I will use current "spot" price (about $62).
Suppose you want to speculate on silver at this time. But you are also concerned that the price might drop. You could buy SLV or Silver Eagles. Silver Eagles can be bought for about +$1 premium at this time.
If silver drops to $30:
You lose $32 with SLV.
It would be reasonable for Silver Eagle premiums to increase because people would be less inclined to sell them. If premiums increased to half what they were 3 years ago, Silver Eagles would be about $37. You would lose $25, not $32.
If silver stays the same (about $62):
You do not make anything with SLV.
Given time, Silver Eagle premiums would likely return to their historical normal (about +$3). So you would at least make a couple dollars while silver and SLV was flat.
If silver rises to $90:
You make $28 with SLV (assuming the management continues to perform on their obligations).
If the rise was rapid, Silver Eagle premiums would probably lag for a time. But I would not expect them to stabilize much lower than they are right now. So I think you would also make $28 with Silver Eagles.
If you want to gamble on volatility, click away with SLV.
For a longer-term holding, it makes no sense to buy and hold SLV instead of physical silver, especially when Silver Eagle premiums and 90% silver coin premiums are low as they are right now.
.
@RedneckHB said: Please show the forum where I misquoted you. Enough of this gaslighting. The forum is tired of it.
@RedneckHB said:
But only sell it for 36x. Solid strategy. Lol
I was stating that Monex was overpriced, and YOU started gaslighting me. I never said anything about selling for 36X, but you implied here that I had some sort of laughable strategy. I never said that. Stop misquoting me.
You are not contributing to any understanding of precious metals here., and your BS gets very tiresome.
I knew it would happen.
Let me restate.
Consider one has a core holding of SLV which one believes currently would be a good investment. One can then make additional 100 share trades to pick up some "mad money." These trades are in additional to the core holdings.
I hope this helps.
But you need to be careful when it comes to this ‘mad money’ sales and whether FIFO applies.
I sell short term out of the money SLV covered calls, usually $2-$3 out of the money, and usually for a week. Lately the weekly premium I receive is around $.70, so for 2000 shares (20 contracts) I receive slightly under $1400/week in premiums. It does cap the short-term upside (right now the calls I sold had a $56 strike price, so I'll have to either likely let them go, or buy them back.) If I do get called out, I consider that a good thing as I likely made 4-5% that week on the SLV position.
I have no desire to deal with the hassle of dealing with physically buying, transporting, storing, and selling physical silver. I also don't have to mess with any premium or spread.
"This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences."
.
That sounds like some sort of sleight-of-hand tax dodge (although I suppose it may be legal - this is not may area of expertise). Wouldn't you just as easily lose money on those 100-share trades ?
.
.
That may work out well, but it seems more like a "trading strategy" with a little risk, rather than an "income stream".
.
And you could also lose your SLV investment potential also. You thought $50 was a SLV high a couple of weeks ago so sold some covered calls at $51 for a couple of pennies hoping your high call is right and it would expire worthless. Now at $60+, you either lose your SLV ETF growth & deliver the SLV or have do buy some other options to cover. Or you sold some way out of money calls at say $40. Now you got a bigger cash flow. When the price continues to go up, that option is worth more money so when assigned or covered, you lose again. Options aren't for beginnings, although covered calls all you lose is the growth potential vs Option sell price.
Point #1 - "This is all done in a no commission Roth IRA brokerage account so there are no tax consequences."
Point #2 - It's separate from your core holdings and you just hold on or buy more. See trades 7/19 thru 9/19.
.
Those trades worked because the price of silver went up. It could have, almost as easily, gone the other way.
Again, I don't see this as an "income stream". It looks like just another speculation on the silver price.
.
You are right, it only works when SLV is stuck in a trading range. I stopped trading SLV after 9/19 and still have my core SLV position.
Income stream means the investment pays some dividend, interest or misc income while you continue to hold the asset. Trading, even profitable, is not an income stream on the asset itself.
he is more in line with the rules of no personal attacks and seems on par with everyone else here
some are baiting even
with all the over-rehashed bickering it feels like the gutter
I did not quote you on saying to sell it for 36. Was you comment in italics? No, it wasn't. I did not misquote you, I simply added my own comment to which you apparently didnt read or understand and quickly went to some sort of attack. Chil out dude.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
How do you think coin dealers generate an income stream?
Hopefully by turning and burning inventory at competitive pricing which keeps a never ending steady and growing
stream of profit (albeit tight margins) washing ashore. You didn't ask me, sorry about dis!
COPPER is gutter !
.
They don't. They earn business revenue.
An "income stream" implies a passive investment.
Active trading is not a passive activity.
.