Operation Redfeather
Uncle_Bingo
Posts: 25 ✭
Apologies that the following May cause symptoms associated with Mental Gymnastics.
I fear few will make it all the way to the end, but it should be a piece of cake for the able-bodied researcher.
Not asking for money here or anything like that, just your time.
Any consideration, or help, no matter how small would be greatly appreciated!
Chapter 1
I would recommend starting here for those willing to accept this challenge. (1 page ) This rough draft version is extremely large in scope and has not been condensed to a simple read only format yet.
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=485427
If by some chance the curious seek more information on the inspiration behind this Project ( 2 pages )
https://vamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10588
Additional relevant links and commentary found on page 87 of this very lengthy topic.
https://vamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34&start=1720
Thank you all very much in advance!
E PLURIBUS UNIM
.///Bob.
Comments
many people don't click through on topics they specialize in.
you'd probably have more success by including a one or two liner on the project subject
(ps- anything vam gives me headaches)
This is not about VAMs
It is about online fraud and counterfeits being sold online in all areas of Numismatics
It is also just an idea possibly trying to fix a broken system.
That's very clear from the title "operation redfeather".
I recommend a communications course. That was a tough read.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Your going to have to give this just a little time . Name recognition for anything new takes a minute.
It takes more than time. It takes clear articulation.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No offense, but you write like you're being paid by the word.
It seems that you've recently stumbled upon the realization that counterfeit coins are being sold online. 😳
The reality is that law enforcement and legal resources are not unlimited, and these types of crimes are a lower (much lower) priority than a lot of other things.
However, you are free to hire a lawyer and go after some of the venues where the counterfeits are being sold.
counterfeits are out of control. while i see little to no counterfeits on amazon, i have found counterfeit us coins and even counterfeit ancients on amazon
etsy and facebook marketplace also have their share of counterfeits
all platforms have a zero tolerance policy on counterfeits but it seems few are effective at removing problems even with documentation. a single counterfeit item removed on a ebay seller's account doesn't trigger even a feedback review.
there are top rated sellers on ebay who have quite a few negatives from selling counterfeits leaving their feedback below 98%.
after all of this forum's efforts there is a large amount of frustration and fatigue regarding reporting counterfeits. there's pessimism about reporting.
any operation redfeather would need to address the problem with something better than existing methods or the doubt and pessimism will rule.
there is a "how to report ebay counterfeits - 2025" thread at thee top of this forum. we do try.
I think the OP has a different punishment in mind. Although it's hard to know based on his text.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Public forums are a very interesting things, so often we might read something and hear something completely different depending on one's experience, or any preconceived notion.
,
I will apologize for my limited ability with the English language. I know it sucks , sorry.
I will just copy from one of the other messages boards a brief synopsis.
This thing is extremely complex and difficult to look at every possible angle.
No offence taken to the one posters comment.
There was a time I would have probably treated someone NEW with very few post , no likes, and a hidden from public view registry very similar. NO OFFENCE INTENDED, BTW
(snip)
Thank you for your comments.
I'm only two message boards in and this is not so much about stirring the pot but honestly is a plea for help.
Thankfully I have not been burned recently, and although I have just a faction of the knowledge many of you on this forum do, I have really tried in the last 3 or 4 years to educated myself while learning from some of the very best in the world in regard to what we collect.
I am no legal scholar, by any stretch of the imagination but I would like to think I know the difference between right and wrong.
I hope that the links provided in these very wordy posts both here and on the VAM world forum are at the very least educational.
Pretty sure most of us all already know counterfeits are illegal, to manufacture, sell, trade etc.. Do you know that it is also illegal for big business to profit from their sales? I am pretty sure that it has to be shown that they have known and have been complicit in the continued illegal activity. Most folks claim many fakes come from outside the US . They have consumer protection laws in place for that scenario as well.
What exactly is the feedback used for, beside just promoting future sales?
Why is my News Feed now cluttered with additional fake numismatic garbage, from other counterfeiters', ( these so called sponsored ADDS)just because I was hunting one of the crooks to report?
Why are many folks told after they report fakes to the host company, that the listing does not violate the company policy?
Is their policy somehow magically above the laws?
Every once in a while, a guy might get a listing pulled, but those numbers hardly make a dent .
Does ebay and ather platforms do a good job complying with consumer protection, and anti-counterfeiting laws?
Are the enforcement agencies, entrusted with protecting all collectors and consumers doing much of anything here?
We live in a world of 3 D printers and highly advanced scanning techniques. Ray Charles could probably spot a sloppily done imitation.
What about a fake that has the proper die markers, and the correct metal alloy ratio?Do you think it would really be all that hard to make more realistic die's in this day and age?
I wonder if there is not already some "Great Rarity "out there that is in truth just "a melt value trinket"
If I/we can't gain support for this quest I guess it dies on the vine.
Because if only a few of us care then it is all for naut .
You think I like coming off like a lunatic on a message board ?. I am just trying to do something about this !
I am severely handicapped behind a key board. so please forgive the messenger here .
It would be a mistake IMHO to ignore the message, because I feel it really is that important!
We are going to call it Operation Redfeather giving credit for the call to action to the man who inspired it . We REALLY DO need everyone's help.
__
that part we know and have experienced. it's the what to do about it that is the hard part that needs work
What if by some miracle we could all speak as one voice? Do you think it would make a difference?
I put the links in the original posts, to most of the pertinent laws it. is not easily read, epically some of the case laws and rulings.
The best place to start is to start the conversation. IMHO
We need a whistle blower, at this point in time, and this would be easier .
Someone not afraid to go up against a multi billion dollar NDA
without lawyers and money backing us? not at all.
i was thinking that if a well made document and video were sent to a major national news org that they may do a follow up investigation and put it to the public
The lawyers and money are supposed to come from the FTC, they might just need a little convincing .
and what you have said is very valid as well . participation and all avenues' explored.
WHATEVER IT TAKES
Need some whiskey after reading those.
sorry about that
i think the story would need something huge or no one will be interested
showing how easy these are to obtain overseas is it
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
You know who has all of those things? The FBI , The FTC, and the DOJ ....
And they are currently using them for more important things.
This is news to you? 😬
Is it only deemed more important > @JBK said:
Unfortunately, no, it is not news to me.
In fact, that comment right there, resonates like most of the other excuses that I have read from the different players in regard to this mess.
So, let me ask you why you believe some things are more important?
Are they understaffed?
Do they lack funding?
Is something like going after an e commerce company or at the very least looking into it, for their part in these violations of HPA, and other statutes, just not front-page news?
They are sworn to uphold ALL the laws of the land, not just some of them.
Most of these coin forums have a place you can learn how to report a counterfeit listing on eBay ,
There are some success stories, I am not sure they outnumber the " We have looked into this and found the listing does not violate our policy" nonsense.
About the only thing anyone can do at that point is escalate to ticket so to speak.
Maybe those that have these " more important things to do "have just not been asked by enough of us" We the People ?
There are lots of laws, how much are you willing to pay to have them ALL enforced?
"Be careful what you wish for", maybe?
Well, murders, rapes, violent assaults, threats to national security, etc. are obviously more pressing concerns than someone who thought he could really buy an ounce of gold for $9.99.
They can swear all they want. If the resources aren't there then there is nothing they can do. Prosecutorial discretion has always been used to prioritize cases.
But if tilting at windmills is your thing, go right ahead.
Operation TLDR
do the investigative reporter tack. play up foreign counterfeit of current silver bullion coins
all us law enforcement agencies know it at some high level, but maybe having some report put out to the public will get the american people's unrest started
That's Operation Redfeather TLDR
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I'm sure there are still laws against sodomy and adultery. We should demand those get enforced.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Nevermind. Sorry for the interruption.
RE ; Well, murders, rapes, violent assaults,
Alright show me where the Federal Tade Commissions would have any authority over any of those matters, because that is where suspected fraud and counterfeit claims are supposed to be reported and primarily enforced?
They only have to bother the DOJ , FBI ,or any other law enforcement agency , if it is found there are sever infractions in criminal law. especially if any alleged wrongdoings escalating to use of the RICO statute etc..
If it is too long to read, then don't read it , but thank you for your comments and time .
FTC cases can impose fines to cover cost associate with investigation and successful prosecution.
Perhaps they have deemed this to hard to prove ?
Maybe some did not read their own job description available to anyone with a computer and access to official government website?
Maybe they just don't care?
If you think I am too hard to read, better not bother with this one, according to the filing date of this document, eBay is still on "time out " and they should still have a " babysitter" because they got in a little bit of trouble.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/media/1332791/dl
"They" were fired and aren't "them" anymore.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I have no problem with complex financial or legal documents, but rambling manifestos can make me lose interest fast.
Instead of pontificating on forums across the internet, why don't you contact these agencies directly and get the ball rolling. Have you done that yet? Once you have established the beach head then you can call in the troops.
I write all sorts of letters to all sorts of people when an issue sparks my interest or consternation. Instead of telling other people what they should do about something, I lead by example.
By the way, one of the challenges with fighting these sorts of infractions is that there is enough wiggle room in the law to let a lot of the participants avoid prosecution. For example, it is apparently not illegal in China to make counterfeit US coins. It is also not illegal (or at least not prosecutable) for a counterfeit coin to merely exist absent certain fraudulent intent. As for older coins, if they pre-date the HPA then they don't have to have the word "copy" stamped on them, so you'll have to prove when they were made. Etc. Etc. Etc. The result is that these crimes are low priority for law enforcement.
Thank you . There is greater strength in numbers . I am working on that very thing you have mentioned in regards getting the ball rolling . This has not yet even risen to the level of a fly buzzing in corporate or government ears . It is not a winnable fight without help.
a hundred ant really can't move that rubbertree plant
But he's got high hopes. He's got high apple pie in the sky hopes.
need 100 ants with new ideas with leverage
What about 100 trolls?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The S**T has hit the fan......................
Pete
I think you were all arguing with an AI engine.
He joined 3 1/2 years ago, but apart from one test thread back then, all his posts have been recent, and almost entirely to his own threads.
I suppose he could be testing his AI operation. It would explain a few things, such as the fact that he mostly only posted to his own threads, and apparently has written no letters of his own to the entities he was highlighting as responsible for taking action.
My guess is also a bot that is in Beta.
I thought you were supposed to stay in your own threads so as not be considered a troll? Kind of would like a little anonymity while attempting to do something of this scope ,if that's is okay? I did post something in the baby Aspen coin auction. Because I really wanted to know if that little girl was sill okay ? I caught wind of that event right before Ian's auction and tried to spread the word . Wished I could have done more!
What?!
If people only posted to their own threads then there would be very little activity here.
Have you written any letters to the powers that be on this issue? If not, why not?
It's not like you have to wait until you have formed your army. You can write letters now, as well as later. You might get some important feedback about where to best make your case, which would reduce wasted efforts by others you are trying to enlist in your crusade.
Then again, until the AI is paired up with a robot there is no one to stuff the envelopes and stick the stamps. 😉
Hang on going to need a second. I can't reply very well on a cell phone . I tried but got locked out after trying to text . Little screen fat fingers.equals post vaporized into cyberspace .lol
How did you get a photo from @Cougar1978 's Assistant Training Academy?!? The guards were supposed to have splashed you with whiskey...
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
I am going to try an answer a couple things here and anything I say is not a direct personal attack to another member. I don't want the thread locked out or something.
This Idea or whatever you want to call it, is only a couple weeks old.
A guy can only do so much over that 4-day Thanksgiving break.
I didn't realize I wrote a manifesto I was in truth only asking for help. Sorry that emotion overtook something that I had finally had enough of.
I love this Hoby,! '
I think I may have figured out a way to write some letters, adding proper context and sending it to where it will actually do some good, * I did not have some of what I think is needed last weekend and there could be more ideas and information come out., because I actually have learned some things, with each and every posted response.
Maybe I'll send it certified instead of an email. Do folks still do that?
I know I am not writing anything else right now. it was a long week and I'm tired.
Ill CC this forum and the other one if you will quit bringing it up.
They might not even get opened on the other end but at least I will have proof of delivery.
Maybe nobody goes to prison, well at least no one who doesn't deserve it anyway .
Maybe we get a policy or two changed ?
Maybe we get a law prioritized?
and maybe nothing , at least I will say I tried .
I am not sure how to take this AI idea? I would hope an AI had better English skills than little ole me.but everyone is free to think whatever they want. I can't put the genie back in the bottle.
, The funny thing is 20 or 25 years ago I don't think that particular boogie man was even invented yet on the old EZ boards
I know folks don't like being told what they already know, I should have apologized for that even before the first sentence on the lead post , where I apologized for the mental gymnastics.
This plea for help is not the only solution BTW , you all know every bit as much as anyone else about how to try and fix this. I am making the assumption that I can't be the only one who has had enough, and I figured it never hurts to ask for help .
Have a great weekend !
Why would you send a letter by Certified Mail? This will take many letters. You'll be spending enough on 78 cent Forever stamps - you don't need to waste another several dollars per letter on Certified Mail.
Emails will be far less effective. It's very easy to hit "send" and it's even easier to hit "delete". Make them pull out the letter opener and work for it.
Your message must be far simpler and more direct than anything you've posted on these and other forums. TLDR counts in the real world as well as online. Simply and directly state the problem and the impact while briefly referencing some of the laws supposedly being broken. Your letter should be no more than one page unless you've gotten a nibble and are following up.
You have two US Senators and a Member of Congress. Send letters to them as well as the top people at all those alphabet agencies you mentioned. See who responds and what they have to say.
Also try the other ideas people here have mentioned, such as contacting local consumer reporters, etc., and perhaps even your state's legislators, law enforcement agencies, and consumer affairs agencies.
Once you have identified the interested parties then you can try to enlist others and provide addresses and contact details.
It's not quite as complicated as it sounds since you can recycle your basic letter for all the recipients.