How to Save MANY $Hundreds (or more) from a Major Dealer on Mid Four-Figure Coins!
winesteven
Posts: 5,137 ✭✭✭✭✭
My goal with this post is purely to help collectors on this forum save money. For those that know me and my contributions, I try to share information that can benefit others. Many times that’s subjective, but not with this.
I understand the forum rule NOT to bash anyone or any firm, and that is absolutely NOT happening here, as I share a legitimate business practice of a major firm. With that said, if a moderator feels this post is inappropriate, please delete it! If more than one reader feels I erred in posting this information, and it should not be shared publicly to help collectors save money, just say so in a reply, or “Agree” with someone who posted a reply that objects, and I’ll completely edit/delete the post and subject line! PLEASE, no one “quote” this post, just in case it’s “inappropriate”, as I cannot edit/delete that. Thank you.
I bought a lovely coin from a good dealer I’ve done business with several times in the past. I negotiated a discount from the posted price of more than $600 on a mid four-figure coin. I’m happy. Late every evening (and very early each morning) I spend time searching for coins I need/want. Several days after my purchase, I see that same exact coin offered for sale by Apmex, where their “Check/Wire” price (their lowest price) is almost $500 higher than the initial asking price of the dealer from whom I bought the coin. This lowest APMEX price on their website is over $1,000 higher than the price I actually paid!
I’m sure some of you know this, that just as many dealers also list their inventory on eBay, I now know for the first time that some dealers also list (some of?) their inventory with Apmex, and that price is then understandably higher, as Apmex needs to make a profit if they created the sale. I now know if I see a coin I want on Apmex, I’ve got to do a lot of research to then try to find the actual dealer who has that coin, as a lot of money can be saved. (This is not a bullion coin, but a coin with a lot of numismatic value).
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Comments
I am not sure about now, but in the past Apmex has shown pictures of coins they have had in the past and may not be the exact coin you receive when you purchase from them.
There are quite a few dealers who list coins owned by other dealers for sale on their sites. Some of them have arrangements with the dealers who own the coins and others do so without their permission.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, that was an issue, but my understanding is it's much less of an issue now for them. However, in this case, considering there are only 10 of these with CAC stickers in the world, and some of them could be graded by NGC, to me, it's way too big of a coincidence that the dealer who had the Newp earlier this week that I bought, is a different coin in that grade, by PCGS with a CAC sticker, that is being offered by Apmex just a couple of days later! I'd bet $1 Apmex listed for sale the actual coin I bought (but due to slow or miscommunication, Apmex does not know that).
Steve
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My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
It pays to check around:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/146840689151?itmmeta=01KBN312J3Y7J7V7JXX4A4P0M5&hash=item22306319ff:g:67UAAeSwCnpozEY9&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA4NHOg0D50eDiCdi/fP0r02tIWN+xtUjLKfWruqDElX/SjShqul+bAFvxHKx8o5riMq5XdbcQf49JZmHMcThbKnTMqPqIMcKNH91s2MHZNZ4q1LWjKRZQq7NfdLCNZu6+FFV3zmFtMy9XsW4wY7zfW953+rWT+gV5yJwygJMEA1iBx6ao3FaRbiO4o5Fv7q22aaWGBUYpjYGwiDeufMbp3wkZWEKipyjVcKVbscievALPAMUi1nORaCPkvZfLyvdKO5ChGPDJqy2ms/nnZYq7iAuF9SW9q4LwI5s+uA9igMzP|tkp:Bk9SR5aphKPdZg
https://charlestonrarecoins.com/1882-trade-dollar-proof-68-cameo-ngc.html
@tradedollarnut - Isn't it well known that one can expect that a dealer will list a coin higher on ebay to account for the eBay fee and list it lower when sold direct? I don't see this as new information.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
I just bought a coin I saw on ebay and went to the dealers site for a 10% discount. It's always best to check around.
To be fair, I think it’s also well known that some dealers list coins for sale that are owned by other dealers and can be bought at lower prices if you can determine the owner.
In both scenarios it’s a matter of doing some digging that might lead to cost savings.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I don't think of the dealer's listed price as a "discount". I think of the dealer's eBay price as "inflated." In some (/many?) cases, the dealer has room to move even from the lower direct price they have on their personal website.
My hobby website Groovycoins.com, new and improved!
I didn't pay the listed price at the dealers website either.
Sounds like a game of “keep away” until the “Price is right”.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
How does a dealer get their coins listed on APMEX's website?
Interesting... and I sort of backed into this myself when I bought my 1794 Liberty Cap Cent (PCGS VF20) I saw the coin initially on ebay on the APMEX store... priced at ~$2200. I believed it to be an S-62 and I had it on my watch list for a few weeks before the Baltimore show... Fast forward to Baltimore and I was looking at the JJ Teaparty table and behold... another S-62 in PCGS VF20 that looked like the same coin... I flipped it to the reverse, and there was the APMEX sticker. I did much better with JJ Teaparty!!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Call them and ask if they take consignments.
And for clarity, in the specific two links provided by TD, they were associated with the same dealer.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
I've seen eBay BN listings, by several other eBay sellers, for coins in HA's Virtual Bourse. Of course the prices were much higher than the listing at HA.
It's also helpful to know whether a dealer has their own website in addition to their eBay store where the coin could be listed in both. Was able to track down one of my prized Lincoln cents this way (eBay listing expired but coin was still active at dealers website) and negotiated a lower price by several hundred dollars. The dealer still processed the transaction through eBay; not sure if they had to or not due to some eBay policy.
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
I offer $0 discounts for purchasing direct and not through eBay.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Pardon the pun, but this is a tempest in a teaparty.
Why is ANYONE surprised at an omni-channel strategy to sell an expensive item with pricing reflecting the costs and risks of doing business???
If you sell through fleaBay, you have fees on the order of 13%. If you sell off your own site, accepting a credit card, you might pay just 3% - but you also take on more of the risk. If you take cash over the counter, it's 0% (unless you get a counterfeit bill). If you sell through an auction house, there's a different fee. If your dealer friend (with their different audience) sells it for you, you have to throw them some $ for the deal. etc.
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
Call me naive, but while I was fully aware MANY dealers list coins from their inventory on eBay, I was surprised this dealers coin was listed simultaneously on Apmex and their own website, hence my decision to post this. I have experience, yet learned something new. I figured if I learned this, SOME other collectors can too, and then potentially save money.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
just a "near' this ball park question. I often times go to Collectors Corner to go coin hunting. The site always lists the name of the dealer who is offering the coin. I always go straight to the dealers site to pursue the coin, however I think you are also suppose to be able to send an inquiry directly thru the Collectors Corner site. Has anyone ever done that and if so, was there a charge or a difference in price? James
I'm under the impression there's no price difference. The dealer pays a fee to CC to have it listed there.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
It’s your business and do as you please but how’s that good for business?
I bought a mid four figure coin that a dealer was selling on eBay rather than through his website to be spiteful. The prices were the same and the dealer was unwilling to lower his price with a direct sale. I also had the added luxury of return privileges and a 2% cash rebate with my credit card.
Nobody directly came out and attacked winesteven yet about unfairly ripping off Apmex yet, but I’ve seen threads in the past where people criticized the practice of finding coins on EBay and then going direct to the dealers website to get a discount which is pretty similar to finding it on Apmex and then going to the dealer but with some detective work involved to figure out who the dealer is. Some people view this as unethical, some think it’s just normal diligence, like finding an item at a store and then doing comparison shopping at another store.
Mr_Spud
It’s not at all surprising that no one came out and attacked @winesteven yet, considering that he didn’t rip-off Apmex. For that matter, he didn’t do anything of the sort. And in fact, his post indicated that he’d already purchased the coin from a different dealer before he learned that Apmex had it for sale on their site at a higher price.
Edited to add: Even if he had seen the coin on Apmex’s site first, and subsequently found it on a different dealer’s site, then bought it, that wouldn’t analogous to the eBay situation you described.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
tl;dr: How to save money: "I negotiated a discount..."
True, and I’m not questioning Winesteven’s ethics in any way. But when I first read the original post right after he wrote it, I thought it was only a matter of time before someone would bring that up because I’ve seen so many similar posts where it turned into an ethics debate.
Mr_Spud
A dealer listing coins on eBay and then listing it for less on the dealer's website appears to be a common practice.
Yup. Some dealers use eBay for free advertising and are willing to sell to you at a discount off of eBay. A couple of days ago I was looking at something for sale on eBay and the seller included a pic of his business card along with the pics of what he was selling. You need to make sure that the seller is trustworthy because you lose all the protections afforded by eBay although if you pay by credit card or PayPal you should be protected from fraud.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
From the dealer's point of view, what does he gain selling through his website vs. selling through eBay if he sells at a lower price?
The dealer can sell for less than the posted EBay price, but still above what he’d normally take for the coin. And it might be easier to obtain a customer with whom he can deal directly in the future for other items.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It seems that would depend on the price difference and his selling costs, for example his credit card fees. I can see both sides of it, depending on the dealer whether they are really set up for independent sales, or whether EBay is the easiest and lowest cost solution. Running a website and the selling costs are not zero, so it really is situational. Some dealer sell a lot of coins on their own websites and may just list some coins on EBay, those I often go direct to their website. Otherwise, as a buyer, if I have not dealt with the dealer EBay has advantages for a buyer also. So yeah, whatever works.
Because it isn't really cheaper for me to sell it direct. For a cheap coin, I pay 8.3% including payment processing. If I sell direct, I pay 3.5% and lose a layer of protection. Is there any point in splitting the 5% so we each get 2% and lose protection?
For a $10,000+ item, the eBay fee is 4.6% and so it isn't even cheaper to sell direct and, again, there are more layers of protection.
So, while you might think you were spiting him (awfully entitled to think you must get a discount), I'm fairly certain he doesn't care. He might, like me, actually prefer it.
People seem to think that it is much cheaper to sell direct. It often is not.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
See my previous post. It is not necessarily cheaper for me to sell direct. The MOST I would save is 5% against with electronic payment. And I'm pretty sure the buyers we're talking about don't want to split that 5% with me.
The only real advantage is being able to sell to people who live ebay as a free research tool but hate to actually buy through it. Is that an advantage? Yes. Is it worth the added risk and aggravation? YMMV
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I haven't had an offer to take a deal off eBay for ages but back when eBay wasn't so particular about that sort of thing, I would get occasional offers with the rationale being there would be a savings on fees. In just about every case, the prospective buyer wanted 100% of the savings of a direct sale over going through eBay.
Apmex didn't own the coin and clearly didn't have exclusive right to sell.
Yes, eBay and Apmex got cut out of any fees that they might have been entitled to for the advertising exposure, but arguing that is more trouble than it's worth given the number of people who think it's clever to call them "feebay" or "fleabay" etc.
Ebay is still king. Ebay and Amazon changed the face of retail and enabled small businesses to compete with giants. I, for one, am grateful for the opportunity and loyal
Would i like free sales? Yes. And if GC ever stops charging an exorbitant 20% fee on coins under $1000, maybe we'll get it. [End sarcasm.] It is hysterical to me that GC gets nothing but love even though it would cost you close to 25% to sell a $50 item there, but ebay gets called names when it costs me 8.35% there.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I probably should have included in my earlier question that I was considering the dealer priced the coin the same on eBay and his website as there are too many alternative scenarios otherwise.
Sorry about that.
Agreed. And most of the time, they want a discount that is GREATER than my ebay fees. People rarely ask me for 5% discounts.
A full time coin operation can probably handle direct sales more easily than I can. But, for me, the extra 5% is a bargain to save my having to be on 24 hour call.
Edited to add: and when I ran my own website, the costs were higher for my low volume personal site than ebay is.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I get the impression on occasion that some people think having a website entails no (or minimal) costs for dealers. Just for kicks, I asked perplexity "How much might a coin dealer expect to pay to have a website designed and maintained that managed inventory and payments?" The response:
"A coin dealer wanting a professionally built site that handles inventory and payments is typically looking at roughly 3–10k USD for initial design/build, plus perhaps 100–500 USD per month for hosting, software, and routine maintenance if using common small‑business solutions. Very custom or enterprise‑style builds can run higher both to build and to maintain."
FWIW...
You can use sites like Shopify more cheaply, although it wasn't cheaper than ebay. The problem is that they weren't designed for collectibles. You had to manually remove sold items or they would exist in backorder purgatory.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
How much does it cost to sell stuff on Amazon? FWIW when I go to buy stuff [not coins] eBay is my go to source. People on eBay often buy the item through Amazon as a gift and have it sent direct to you.
Minimum of 20%, and it goes up from there.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.