I've also kicked around the idea of resubmitting but only after cracking out. It's hard for me to believe that if I sent a designated cleaned coin to PCGS for reconsideration that their mind would change knowing it had a prior designation as "cleaned".
I'm convinced that, more often than not, "cleaned" designation is a determination involving more guesswork than anything else. It's like "oh yeah? who says?" I think "cleaned", the word, should be done away with on holder labels for being too subjective.
From now on, all TPGs will instead use the designation "harschely cleaned" in your honor.
oh yeah? Are you spokesperson now for all TPGs? I have been giving consideration to having some of my 1909-S pennies given Harsche numbers on the label. Do I have to pay extra to have that done? If anybody would know it would be you.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
My opinion is that Tramp's pictured 1916-D dime has not been cleaned but sending it in for reconsideration is not something I would do if it were my coin. There are a few good reasons to crack a coin out of it's slab and Tramp's coin in it's labelled as "cleaned" holder is one of the best examples I've ever seen for a reason to crack a coin out of TPG slab. It's got a verification as authentic number. That's all it needs. The piece speaks for itself and definitely is not screaming "cleaned" to me.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
I've also kicked around the idea of resubmitting but only after cracking out. It's hard for me to believe that if I sent a designated cleaned coin to PCGS for reconsideration that their mind would change knowing it had a prior designation as "cleaned".
I'm convinced that, more often than not, "cleaned" designation is a determination involving more guesswork than anything else. It's like "oh yeah? who says?" I think "cleaned", the word, should be done away with on holder labels for being too subjective.
From now on, all TPGs will instead use the designation "harschely cleaned" in your honor.
oh yeah? Are you spokesperson now for all TPGs? I have been giving consideration to having some of my 1909-S pennies given Harsche numbers on the label. Do I have to pay extra to have that done? If anybody would know it would be you.
Edited to add: I apologize, as my reply below were about the coin which @NerdsLTD has posted.
@mr1931S said:
My opinion is that Tramp's pictured 1916-D dime has not been cleaned but sending it in for reconsideration is not something I would do if it were my coin. There are a few good reasons to crack a coin out of it's slab and Tramp's coin in it's labelled as "cleaned" holder is one of the best examples I've ever seen for a reason to crack a coin out of TPG slab. It's got a verification as authentic number. That's all it needs. The piece speaks for itself and definitely is not screaming "cleaned" to me.
While the coin doesn’t look cleaned to you, it does to multiple other posters who viewed the same images you did. And more importantly, it looked cleaned to the PCGS graders who examined the coin in hand.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
While the coin doesn’t look cleaned to you, it does to multiple other posters who viewed the same images you did. And more importantly, it looked cleaned to the PCGS graders who examined the coin in hand.
Does it look cleaned to you? The Truviews aren't screaming cleaned to me and I've given my opinion. But what's your opinion from viewing the Truviews?
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Edited to add: I apologize, as my reply below were about the coin which @NerdsLTD has posted.
@mr1931S said: While the coin doesn’t look cleaned to you, it does to multiple other posters who viewed the same images you did. And more importantly, it looked cleaned to the PCGS graders who examined the coin in hand.
Does it look cleaned to you? The Truviews aren't screaming cleaned to me and I've given my opinion. But what's your opinion from viewing the Truviews?
Yes, it looks cleaned to me, due to the noticeably darker protected areas at the periphery of each side, as well as the lighter right-side obverse and left-side reverse fields.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, it looks cleaned to me, due to the noticeably darker protected areas at the periphery of each side, as well as the lighter right-side obverse and left-side reverse fields.
Okay, that's your opinion. If this were my coin it would get precision cracked out of it's slab with my Dremel. I would make an 8x10 glossy of the Truview to hang on the wall near my coin inspection station. I call the coin choice au and rather like the natural light russet toning it has. This piece would look great in an album with the rest of my au and bu Mercury dimes.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
@mr1931S said: Yes, it looks cleaned to me, due to the noticeably darker protected areas at the periphery of each side, as well as the lighter right-side obverse and left-side reverse fields.
Okay, that's your opinion. If this were my coin it would get precision cracked out of it's slab with my Dremel. I would make an 8x10 glossy of the Truview to hang on the wall near my coin inspection station. I call the coin choice au and rather like the natural light russet toning it has. This piece would look great in album with the rest of my au and bu Mercury dimes.
I've also kicked around the idea of resubmitting but only after cracking out. It's hard for me to believe that if I sent a designated cleaned coin to PCGS for reconsideration that their mind would change knowing it had a prior designation as "cleaned".
Thanks, MsMorrisine. It's nice to have your acceptance of my opinions.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
@tradedollarnut said:
Honestly, I’d crack and stick it on a sunny window sill for about 4 months. Turn it over every month so each side gets 60 days.
Help me understand. What is the rationale behind this? Is it the heat or the light or both? What would such a treatment accomplish that couldn’t be accomplished in the slab?
I'm happy that at least you're not busy desecrating images of iconic Rockwell paintings by limiting your silliness to altering my sig line in your posts to say what you want it to say.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
@DisneyFan said:
Given that you would like to sell the complete collection, and assuming all coins have not been sent to PCGS, it would seem worthwhile for you to show the collection to dealers in person. Where are you located?
In Albuquerque, NM.
The dealers here so far have stuck to the, low-ball-and-see-what-happens-approach. New Mexico is one of the poorest states in the union and I am guessing people don’t show them coins unless they are desperate to sell. As such, I’m guessing, this strategy has a much higher success rate here than it would anywhere else. I am in no hurry.
@tradedollarnut said:
Honestly, I’d crack and stick it on a sunny window sill for about 4 months. Turn it over every month so each side gets 60 days.
Help me understand. What is the rationale behind this? Is it the heat or the light or both? What would such a treatment accomplish that couldn’t be accomplished in the slab?
It’s a natural acceleration of toning that covers cleaning. I had a trade dollar that came back cleaned - did this and it graded. Puts a natural surface over the unnatural surface
@tradedollarnut said:
Honestly, I’d crack and stick it on a sunny window sill for about 4 months. Turn it over every month so each side gets 60 days.
Help me understand. What is the rationale behind this? Is it the heat or the light or both? What would such a treatment accomplish that couldn’t be accomplished in the slab?
It’s a natural acceleration of toning that covers cleaning. I had a trade dollar that came back cleaned - did this and it graded Puts a natural surface over the unnatural surface
Gotcha. I'll whip out the macro lens and see if I can't give a few more views.
@mr1931S said: Yes, it looks cleaned to me, due to the noticeably darker protected areas at the periphery of each side, as well as the lighter right-side obverse and left-side reverse fields.
Okay, that's your opinion. If this were my coin it would get precision cracked out of it's slab with my Dremel. I would make an 8x10 glossy of the Truview to hang on the wall near my coin inspection station. I call the coin choice au and rather like the natural light russet toning it has. This piece would look great in an album with the rest of my au and bu Mercury dimes.
Don't you mean your collection of VF and XF dimes?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@tradedollarnut said:
Honestly, I’d crack and stick it on a sunny window sill for about 4 months. Turn it over every month so each side gets 60 days.
Help me understand. What is the rationale behind this? Is it the heat or the light or both? What would such a treatment accomplish that couldn’t be accomplished in the slab?
It’s a natural acceleration of toning that covers cleaning. I had a trade dollar that came back cleaned - did this and it graded. Puts a natural surface over the unnatural surface
Is there or are there any chemical treatments prior to putting the coin on a window sill for four months that would be helpful? Acetone soak comes to mind but I'm not saying it's the thing to do. All that's going to do is remove oil from the piece but are there known prior treatments to help ensure that Nerds gets the best result possible from the window sill method of restoration?
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
@DisneyFan said:
Given that you would like to sell the complete collection, and assuming all coins have not been sent to PCGS, it would seem worthwhile for you to show the collection to dealers in person. Where are you located?
In Albuquerque, NM.
The dealers here so far have stuck to the, low-ball-and-see-what-happens-approach. New Mexico is one of the poorest states in the union and I am guessing people don’t show them coins unless they are desperate to sell. As such, I’m guessing, this strategy has a much higher success rate here than it would anywhere else. I am in no hurry.
That's helpful.
From reading your earlier posts it appears there are several collections, you made an effort to be knowledgeable, and have really tried to understand the coin market. You've also stated you are considering becoming a collector yourself.
There is no magic trick to get the highest and best prices for the coins. Local dealers can buy nominal value coins at today's high melt values. GC can sell the key and semikey coins for fair prices at auction with minimal commissions and quick payments. It could also be worthwhile to submit a list of these key and semikey coins to our frequent contributor, Mark Feld, at Heritage whom I found makes very competitive to auction offers.
Another option is to make what you consider a fair offer, as you say, somewhere between retail and wholesale, to the owner(s) and enjoy the collection.
@DisneyFan said:
Given that you would like to sell the complete collection, and assuming all coins have not been sent to PCGS, it would seem worthwhile for you to show the collection to dealers in person. Where are you located?
In Albuquerque, NM.
The dealers here so far have stuck to the, low-ball-and-see-what-happens-approach. New Mexico is one of the poorest states in the union and I am guessing people don’t show them coins unless they are desperate to sell. As such, I’m guessing, this strategy has a much higher success rate here than it would anywhere else. I am in no hurry.
That's helpful.
From reading your earlier posts it appears there are several collections, you made an effort to be knowledgeable, and have really tried to understand the coin market. You've also stated you are considering becoming a collector yourself.
There is no magic trick to get the highest and best prices for the coins. Local dealers can buy nominal value coins at today's high melt values. GC can sell the key and semikey coins for fair prices at auction with minimal commissions and quick payments. It could also be worthwhile to submit a list of these key and semikey coins to our frequent contributor, Mark Feld, at Heritage whom I found makes very competitive to auction offers.
Another option is to make what you consider a fair offer, as you say, somewhere between retail and wholesale, to the owner(s) and enjoy the collection.
Thank you for taking the time to read it all. Nearly everything key and semi- key has been graded. There's an unc set of 1932-1964 Washington Quarters including original sales receipts from Stacks NYC in the 60s. The Indian Head Cents are nearly all graded. The only set I haven't sent keys off to are the '32-64 XF-AU Washington Quarters. Perhaps just the 32-D & 32-S. I'll reach out to him. Is he on the forum or should I reach out directly? I'm guessing you're saying he'll make an offer akin to having Heritage auction them.
@mr1931S said:
My opinion is that Tramp's pictured 1916-D dime has not been cleaned but sending it in for reconsideration is not something I would do if it were my coin. There are a few good reasons to crack a coin out of it's slab and Tramp's coin in it's labelled as "cleaned" holder is one of the best examples I've ever seen for a reason to crack a coin out of TPG slab. It's got a verification as authentic number. That's all it needs. The piece speaks for itself and definitely is not screaming "cleaned" to me.
@Tramp your coin looks much better than mine. hands down.
I would not do this window-sill thing to this coin. You'll end up with two types of toning from two different environments and it's likely they'll catch it and add a "questionable toning" to the details label. If the coin was toneless, near white coin, recently cleaned, yeah, sure, give it a shot! I've done this to lower grade lightly cleaned MS60 to MS64 coins that had an ugly haze of some sort to enhance them. But not anything that I'd send in for grading. The window-sill basting will add a light to brown gold toning depends on how long the experiment lasts, exposed to that environment. It might do better during the summer months than winter. Toning depends upon the amount of humidity in the air taking place at the time. Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
From reading your earlier posts it appears there are several collections, you made an effort to be knowledgeable, and have really tried to understand the coin market. You've also stated you are considering becoming a collector yourself.
There is no magic trick to get the highest and best prices for the coins. Local dealers can buy nominal value coins at today's high melt values. GC can sell the key and semikey coins for fair prices at auction with minimal commissions and quick payments. It could also be worthwhile to submit a list of these key and semikey coins to our frequent contributor, Mark Feld, at Heritage whom I found makes very competitive to auction offers.
Another option is to make what you consider a fair offer, as you say, somewhere between retail and wholesale, to the owner(s) and enjoy the collection.
Thank you for taking the time to read it all. Nearly everything key and semi- key has been graded. There's an unc set of 1932-1964 Washington Quarters including original sales receipts from Stacks NYC in the 60s. The Indian Head Cents are nearly all graded. The only set I haven't sent keys off to are the '32-64 XF-AU Washington Quarters. Perhaps just the 32-D & 32-S. I'll reach out to him. Is he on the forum or should I reach out directly? I'm guessing you're saying he'll make an offer akin to having Heritage auction them.
Edited to add: I apologize, as my reply below were about the coin which @NerdsLTD has posted.
@mr1931S said: While the coin doesn’t look cleaned to you, it does to multiple other posters who viewed the same images you did. And more importantly, it looked cleaned to the PCGS graders who examined the coin in hand.
Does it look cleaned to you? The Truviews aren't screaming cleaned to me and I've given my opinion. But what's your opinion from viewing the Truviews?
Yes, it looks cleaned to me, due to the noticeably darker protected areas at the periphery of each side, as well as the lighter right-side obverse and left-side reverse fields.
You can private message him or contact him via the forum
@leothelyon said:
I would not do this window-sill thing to this coin. You'll end up with two types of toning from two different environments and it's likely they'll catch it and add a "questionable toning" to the details label. If the coin was toneless, near white coin, recently cleaned, yeah, sure, give it a shot! I've done this to lower grade lightly cleaned MS60 to MS64 coins that had an ugly haze of some sort to enhance them. But not anything that I'd send in for grading. The window-sill basting will add a light to brown gold toning depends on how long the experiment lasts, exposed to that environment. It might do better during the summer months than winter. Toning depends upon the amount of humidity in the air taking place at the time. Leo
Oh I’m talking about the white one pictured in the thread
@leothelyon said:
I would not do this window-sill thing to this coin. You'll end up with two types of toning from two different environments and it's likely they'll catch it and add a "questionable toning" to the details label. If the coin was toneless, near white coin, recently cleaned, yeah, sure, give it a shot! I've done this to lower grade lightly cleaned MS60 to MS64 coins that had an ugly haze of some sort to enhance them. But not anything that I'd send in for grading. The window-sill basting will add a light to brown gold toning depends on how long the experiment lasts, exposed to that environment. It might do better during the summer months than winter. Toning depends upon the amount of humidity in the air taking place at the time. Leo
You are saying it's kind of a crapshoot for Nerds to be doing the window sill thing then. Nerds would need to take the extra step of treating the coin chemically to remove old toning essentially starting over with the piece by making it white is what you are saying? I agree that would be a very tough decision to make. Is it worth the risk? Nerds' coin is tending to being more moderately, not lightly, circulated so golden , or russet, or brown tones after window silling might make his coin look strange to a potental buyer? I'm actually seeing traces of mint luster on the au details piece appearing in this thread. Mercury dimes that are uncirculated to lightly circulated often have those golden hues. Dime gets wear to the point of xf and lower and those golden hints associated with mint luster disappear. In light of your remarks, I would agree with a decision to "let the coin be." Ask xf details money for it and be patient trying to get it. An experienced collector will either find the coin acceptable for his /her collection or not. All Nerds needs is one serious buyer who likes what he or she sees with the "meatiness" of his '16-D, cleaned designation notwithstanding.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
After reading this entire thread, I agree with the others that consigning to GC for the 16-D dime would be the best option. Please don't try to add additional toning to a coin that is okay for what it is.
Lastly, purely my opinion on timing, I'd consign it now in case the coin market dives as a result of the general economic climate. Maximize your opportunity, I say.
Seated Half Society member #38
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress, running like a water color in the rain...."
@mr1931S said: Yes, it looks cleaned to me, due to the noticeably darker protected areas at the periphery of each side, as well as the lighter right-side obverse and left-side reverse fields.
Okay, that's your opinion. If this were my coin it would get precision cracked out of it's slab with my Dremel. I would make an 8x10 glossy of the Truview to hang on the wall near my coin inspection station. I call the coin choice au and rather like the natural light russet toning it has. This piece would look great in an album with the rest of my au and bu Mercury dimes.
Don't you mean your collection of VF and XF dimes?
No, I mean my collection of au and bu dimes. I go with FB pieces for bu and my au's should have mint luster with bands well-defined for me to get excited about it. I have a '45 with 3/4 of full center bands. I cherry picked it out of a triple row box at the coin store. I'm in the process now of evaluating my collecting interests. What am I trying to do with my coin collecting is the question i've been asking myself. '16-D, especially in nicer grade, say VF or better, is a stopper for me in Mercury dime series. Probably is for you too, eh?
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
The images you provided of your coin make it appear it has pretty evident cleaning lines and that it likely, in my experience and opinion, acquired a secondary toning through natural means. In other words, someone cleaned it up aggressively at one point to make it bright, but then it sat undisturbed in an album for years or decades and gradually toned on its own afterward.
I'm still of a mind to simply list it on GC, take your funds and be done with it. If I recall correctly, GC charges a buyer's fee (aka; really a seller's fee) of 12.5% or 10%, depending upon payment method, and a coin that sells for $1k or more doesn't pay any additional fees. Of course, you can still ask the best way to sell the coin every few days until the piece is 109-years older than it is now, but that is up to you.
Reconsideration is that last thing I’d have done with it
Agreed.
Reconsideration is fine for liner coins, or those with exceptional eye appeal, that might get a bump on a good day, when it makes financial sense to try. Or has a minor problem that may straight grade upon reconsideration.
That coin looks like a body bag candidate at any respectable TPG, every time.
It’s a good coin for a high grade set for the collector who can’t afford this monster at the straight grade price level. Let them bid on it.
@Walkerguy21D said:
That coin looks like a body bag candidate at any respectable TPG, every time.
it is known it will bb again. the idea is to get it in a holder with the proper, higher details grade
Ah ok. Yes, I posted back in November it looked like XF details. If that’s the intent, then I can get onboard with spending the money and taking a shot.
@Walkerguy21D said:
That coin looks like a body bag candidate at any respectable TPG, every time.
it is known it will bb again. the idea is to get it in a holder with the proper, higher details grade
Ah ok. Yes, I posted back in November it looked like XF details. If that’s the intent, then I can get onboard with spending the money and taking a shot.
Still, if it were mine, rather than submit the coin for “Reconsideration” I would have either left it as is or cracked it out and submitted it raw, hoping for an XF details grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Connecticoin said:
There are 5 past results on GC which range in “hammer” price (what you would get for the coin as consignor) from $1,650 to $3,500. Two are NGC and three are ANACS. Yours might fetch the higher end of the range being PCGS and fairly nice looking.
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
This is the most recent Heritage sale of a VF details, cleaned example:
HAVE A SIMILAR ITEM TO SELL?
Ask about cash advances.
Free Appraisal
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
Auction 1378 | Lot 7083 » Dimes » Mercury Dimes
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
SERVICE
PCGS Genuine
That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best. @jmlanzaf absolutely jump in on the fun. Do all auction houses report to the IRS for sale of numismatic rarities? This coin will fetch more than silver melt (easy to understand reporting requirements).
They don't report such sales to the IRS because they are giving you your money and not theirs. If you were to sell it to them then that might be a different story, For someone like HA, I don't know what their dollar figure is to issue a 1099, but the common dollar value to issue a 1099 is $600. You'd best know what your cost is and be able to support/document it. When you get your check from the auction house you're on the honor system for reporting any taxable gain which might be 28%.
@Connecticoin said:
There are 5 past results on GC which range in “hammer” price (what you would get for the coin as consignor) from $1,650 to $3,500. Two are NGC and three are ANACS. Yours might fetch the higher end of the range being PCGS and fairly nice looking.
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
This is the most recent Heritage sale of a VF details, cleaned example:
HAVE A SIMILAR ITEM TO SELL?
Ask about cash advances.
Free Appraisal
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
Auction 1378 | Lot 7083 » Dimes » Mercury Dimes
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
SERVICE
PCGS Genuine
That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best. @jmlanzaf absolutely jump in on the fun. Do all auction houses report to the IRS for sale of numismatic rarities? This coin will fetch more than silver melt (easy to understand reporting requirements).
They don't report such sales to the IRS because they are giving you your money and not theirs. If you were to sell it to them then that might be a different story, For someone like HA, I don't know what their dollar figure is to issue a 1099, but the common dollar value to issue a 1099 is $600. You'd best know what your cost is and be able to support/document it. When you get your check from the auction house you're on the honor system for reporting any taxable gain which might be 28%.
Hasn't the $ threshold to issue 1099s increases to gross sales exceeding $20K?
@Walkerguy21D said:
That coin looks like a body bag candidate at any respectable TPG, every time.
it is known it will bb again. the idea is to get it in a holder with the proper, higher details grade
Ah ok. Yes, I posted back in November it looked like XF details. If that’s the intent, then I can get onboard with spending the money and taking a shot.
Still, if it were mine, rather than submit the coin for “Reconsideration” I would have either left it as is or cracked it out and submitted it raw, hoping for an XF details grade.
@Walkerguy21D said:
That coin looks like a body bag candidate at any respectable TPG, every time.
it is known it will bb again. the idea is to get it in a holder with the proper, higher details grade
Ah ok. Yes, I posted back in November it looked like XF details. If that’s the intent, then I can get onboard with spending the money and taking a shot.
@Connecticoin said:
There are 5 past results on GC which range in “hammer” price (what you would get for the coin as consignor) from $1,650 to $3,500. Two are NGC and three are ANACS. Yours might fetch the higher end of the range being PCGS and fairly nice looking.
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
This is the most recent Heritage sale of a VF details, cleaned example:
HAVE A SIMILAR ITEM TO SELL?
Ask about cash advances.
Free Appraisal
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
Auction 1378 | Lot 7083 » Dimes » Mercury Dimes
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
SERVICE
PCGS Genuine
That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best. @jmlanzaf absolutely jump in on the fun. Do all auction houses report to the IRS for sale of numismatic rarities? This coin will fetch more than silver melt (easy to understand reporting requirements).
They don't report such sales to the IRS because they are giving you your money and not theirs. If you were to sell it to them then that might be a different story, For someone like HA, I don't know what their dollar figure is to issue a 1099, but the common dollar value to issue a 1099 is $600. You'd best know what your cost is and be able to support/document it. When you get your check from the auction house you're on the honor system for reporting any taxable gain which might be 28%.
Hasn't the $ threshold to issue 1099s increases to gross sales exceeding $20K?
The Federal requirement was reverted to the old $20k, but different states have different requirements.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Connecticoin said:
There are 5 past results on GC which range in “hammer” price (what you would get for the coin as consignor) from $1,650 to $3,500. Two are NGC and three are ANACS. Yours might fetch the higher end of the range being PCGS and fairly nice looking.
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
This is the most recent Heritage sale of a VF details, cleaned example:
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1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
Auction 1378 | Lot 7083 » Dimes » Mercury Dimes
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
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PCGS Genuine
That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best. @jmlanzaf absolutely jump in on the fun. Do all auction houses report to the IRS for sale of numismatic rarities? This coin will fetch more than silver melt (easy to understand reporting requirements).
They don't report such sales to the IRS because they are giving you your money and not theirs. If you were to sell it to them then that might be a different story, For someone like HA, I don't know what their dollar figure is to issue a 1099, but the common dollar value to issue a 1099 is $600. You'd best know what your cost is and be able to support/document it. When you get your check from the auction house you're on the honor system for reporting any taxable gain which might be 28%.
Hasn't the $ threshold to issue 1099s increases to gross sales exceeding $20K?
The Federal requirement was reverted to the old $20k, but different states have different requirements.
Answers
oh yeah? Are you spokesperson now for all TPGs? I have been giving consideration to having some of my 1909-S pennies given Harsche numbers on the label. Do I have to pay extra to have that done? If anybody would know it would be you.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
My opinion is that Tramp's pictured 1916-D dime has not been cleaned but sending it in for reconsideration is not something I would do if it were my coin. There are a few good reasons to crack a coin out of it's slab and Tramp's coin in it's labelled as "cleaned" holder is one of the best examples I've ever seen for a reason to crack a coin out of TPG slab. It's got a verification as authentic number. That's all it needs. The piece speaks for itself and definitely is not screaming "cleaned" to me.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
What's the deal with your signature line?
Edited to add: I apologize, as my reply below were about the coin which @NerdsLTD has posted.
While the coin doesn’t look cleaned to you, it does to multiple other posters who viewed the same images you did. And more importantly, it looked cleaned to the PCGS graders who examined the coin in hand.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
While the coin doesn’t look cleaned to you, it does to multiple other posters who viewed the same images you did. And more importantly, it looked cleaned to the PCGS graders who examined the coin in hand.
Does it look cleaned to you? The Truviews aren't screaming cleaned to me and I've given my opinion. But what's your opinion from viewing the Truviews?
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Edited to add: I apologize, as my reply below were about the coin which @NerdsLTD has posted.
Yes, it looks cleaned to me, due to the noticeably darker protected areas at the periphery of each side, as well as the lighter right-side obverse and left-side reverse fields.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, it looks cleaned to me, due to the noticeably darker protected areas at the periphery of each side, as well as the lighter right-side obverse and left-side reverse fields.
Okay, that's your opinion. If this were my coin it would get precision cracked out of it's slab with my Dremel. I would make an 8x10 glossy of the Truview to hang on the wall near my coin inspection station. I call the coin choice au and rather like the natural light russet toning it has. This piece would look great in an album with the rest of my au and bu Mercury dimes.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Fair point! I’m hoping for XF not a clean grade.
Thanks, MsMorrisine. It's nice to have your acceptance of my opinions.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
What are the one times set up fees GC collects?
Unless the coin has been in your possession since it came off the dies in 1916, it's pretty much all opinions.
Honestly, I’d crack and stick it on a sunny window sill for about 4 months. Turn it over every month so each side gets 60 days.
It definitely hasn’t. Are there any 109-year-olds amongst us? And no, yelling at kids to get off your lawn doesn’t make one over a century old. :-)
Help me understand. What is the rationale behind this? Is it the heat or the light or both? What would such a treatment accomplish that couldn’t be accomplished in the slab?
What's the deal with your signature line?
I'm happy that at least you're not busy desecrating images of iconic Rockwell paintings by limiting your silliness to altering my sig line in your posts to say what you want it to say.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
In Albuquerque, NM.
The dealers here so far have stuck to the, low-ball-and-see-what-happens-approach. New Mexico is one of the poorest states in the union and I am guessing people don’t show them coins unless they are desperate to sell. As such, I’m guessing, this strategy has a much higher success rate here than it would anywhere else. I am in no hurry.
It’s a natural acceleration of toning that covers cleaning. I had a trade dollar that came back cleaned - did this and it graded. Puts a natural surface over the unnatural surface
Gotcha. I'll whip out the macro lens and see if I can't give a few more views.
Here's a quick macro shot. I don't have my lighting rig set up, so this is natural light.
lighting set up needed
Don't you mean your collection of VF and XF dimes?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Looks cleaned and retoned.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Is there or are there any chemical treatments prior to putting the coin on a window sill for four months that would be helpful? Acetone soak comes to mind but I'm not saying it's the thing to do. All that's going to do is remove oil from the piece but are there known prior treatments to help ensure that Nerds gets the best result possible from the window sill method of restoration?
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
That's helpful.
From reading your earlier posts it appears there are several collections, you made an effort to be knowledgeable, and have really tried to understand the coin market. You've also stated you are considering becoming a collector yourself.
There is no magic trick to get the highest and best prices for the coins. Local dealers can buy nominal value coins at today's high melt values. GC can sell the key and semikey coins for fair prices at auction with minimal commissions and quick payments. It could also be worthwhile to submit a list of these key and semikey coins to our frequent contributor, Mark Feld, at Heritage whom I found makes very competitive to auction offers.
Another option is to make what you consider a fair offer, as you say, somewhere between retail and wholesale, to the owner(s) and enjoy the collection.
Thank you for taking the time to read it all. Nearly everything key and semi- key has been graded. There's an unc set of 1932-1964 Washington Quarters including original sales receipts from Stacks NYC in the 60s. The Indian Head Cents are nearly all graded. The only set I haven't sent keys off to are the '32-64 XF-AU Washington Quarters. Perhaps just the 32-D & 32-S. I'll reach out to him. Is he on the forum or should I reach out directly? I'm guessing you're saying he'll make an offer akin to having Heritage auction them.
it took a little doing, but I finally got the backfocus right.
@Tramp your coin looks much better than mine. hands down.
I would not do this window-sill thing to this coin. You'll end up with two types of toning from two different environments and it's likely they'll catch it and add a "questionable toning" to the details label. If the coin was toneless, near white coin, recently cleaned, yeah, sure, give it a shot! I've done this to lower grade lightly cleaned MS60 to MS64 coins that had an ugly haze of some sort to enhance them. But not anything that I'd send in for grading. The window-sill basting will add a light to brown gold toning depends on how long the experiment lasts, exposed to that environment. It might do better during the summer months than winter. Toning depends upon the amount of humidity in the air taking place at the time. Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Yes -
You can private message him or contact him via the forum
Oh I’m talking about the white one pictured in the thread
You are saying it's kind of a crapshoot for Nerds to be doing the window sill thing then. Nerds would need to take the extra step of treating the coin chemically to remove old toning essentially starting over with the piece by making it white is what you are saying? I agree that would be a very tough decision to make. Is it worth the risk? Nerds' coin is tending to being more moderately, not lightly, circulated so golden , or russet, or brown tones after window silling might make his coin look strange to a potental buyer? I'm actually seeing traces of mint luster on the au details piece appearing in this thread. Mercury dimes that are uncirculated to lightly circulated often have those golden hues. Dime gets wear to the point of xf and lower and those golden hints associated with mint luster disappear. In light of your remarks, I would agree with a decision to "let the coin be." Ask xf details money for it and be patient trying to get it. An experienced collector will either find the coin acceptable for his /her collection or not. All Nerds needs is one serious buyer who likes what he or she sees with the "meatiness" of his '16-D, cleaned designation notwithstanding.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
After reading this entire thread, I agree with the others that consigning to GC for the 16-D dime would be the best option. Please don't try to add additional toning to a coin that is okay for what it is.
Lastly, purely my opinion on timing, I'd consign it now in case the coin market dives as a result of the general economic climate. Maximize your opportunity, I say.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
No, I mean my collection of au and bu dimes. I go with FB pieces for bu and my au's should have mint luster with bands well-defined for me to get excited about it. I have a '45 with 3/4 of full center bands. I cherry picked it out of a triple row box at the coin store. I'm in the process now of evaluating my collecting interests. What am I trying to do with my coin collecting is the question i've been asking myself. '16-D, especially in nicer grade, say VF or better, is a stopper for me in Mercury dime series. Probably is for you too, eh?
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
The images you provided of your coin make it appear it has pretty evident cleaning lines and that it likely, in my experience and opinion, acquired a secondary toning through natural means. In other words, someone cleaned it up aggressively at one point to make it bright, but then it sat undisturbed in an album for years or decades and gradually toned on its own afterward.
I'm still of a mind to simply list it on GC, take your funds and be done with it. If I recall correctly, GC charges a buyer's fee (aka; really a seller's fee) of 12.5% or 10%, depending upon payment method, and a coin that sells for $1k or more doesn't pay any additional fees. Of course, you can still ask the best way to sell the coin every few days until the piece is 109-years older than it is now, but that is up to you.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Thank you all for your input. I've submitted it for reconsideration and will update this thread with the results.
Really? Hmmm
Reconsideration is that last thing I’d have done with it
Agreed.
Reconsideration is fine for liner coins, or those with exceptional eye appeal, that might get a bump on a good day, when it makes financial sense to try. Or has a minor problem that may straight grade upon reconsideration.
That coin looks like a body bag candidate at any respectable TPG, every time.
It’s a good coin for a high grade set for the collector who can’t afford this monster at the straight grade price level. Let them bid on it.
it is known it will bb again. the idea is to get it in a holder with the proper, higher details grade
Ah ok. Yes, I posted back in November it looked like XF details. If that’s the intent, then I can get onboard with spending the money and taking a shot.
Still, if it were mine, rather than submit the coin for “Reconsideration” I would have either left it as is or cracked it out and submitted it raw, hoping for an XF details grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
With those images, 0%chance regrading in problem free holder, and less than 1% xf details VF details is all its going to get again
They don't report such sales to the IRS because they are giving you your money and not theirs. If you were to sell it to them then that might be a different story, For someone like HA, I don't know what their dollar figure is to issue a 1099, but the common dollar value to issue a 1099 is $600. You'd best know what your cost is and be able to support/document it. When you get your check from the auction house you're on the honor system for reporting any taxable gain which might be 28%.
Hasn't the $ threshold to issue 1099s increases to gross sales exceeding $20K?
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maint. Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
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Understandable.
that's what i'm hoping for.
Definitely cleaned and retoned.> @Tramp said:
The Federal requirement was reverted to the old $20k, but different states have different requirements.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
If this coin gets over 9K at auction, we’d be in the twilight zone.