Nothing wrong with anybody looking for deals……One point that I haven’t seen brought up here yet is the simple aspect of quality.
When I see the “data” guys marching around the bourse with their iPads trying to comp every coin in the room, I rarely get the impression that they’re hunting nice coins. Just low prices.
I’m not a coin dealer, but I am an entrepreneur and a small businessman. My entire model is simply offering a better, more comprehensive service than my competitors. Because my service is better, I charge more than they do.
Many times, I’ve “lost” a potential new client immediately after quoting my rate. That’s OK. My retention rate is very high and “word of mouth” has been better than just about any advertising I could pay for.
If you want quality, you have to pay for quality or just hope to get really lucky. I think that’s true in just about anything in the Western world, and it certainly is true for numismatics.
Does that mean you need to be a millionaire to have a great coin collection? Certainly not. It’s all relative. If I’m a Roosevelt dime Dansco collector (like my daughter), I can “fill the hole” at melt with anything out of a dealers’ 90% box, or I can cough up $20-$30 for a nicely toned raw UNC. If I want the UNC, though, I shouldn’t expect the seller of the coin to give me the same price as the one sitting in the 90% box.
I recently witnessed a “negotiation” involving a very PQ, beautifully toned better date WLH in a 58 holder. The seller was asking a high, but not stratospheric price. iPad guy came up next to me, scouted the coin, then pulled up eBay comps for that particular date and showed the seller a bunch of dipped out, blast white examples in 58 holders that have right fully sold for way less. When the dealer wouldn’t budge, iPad guy calls him a “crook” and storms off. I found it to be pretty jaw dropping tbh.
This was obviously just one instance. To me, however, a lot of the ipad hagglers seem to view every PCGS MS 64 as the same thing.
It’s definitely people coming over from the sports card world imho. Glad to have them as I’m one of them too. But it’s easy to spot someone who loves and appreciates coins vs someone who loves and appreciates trying to flip stuff. I don’t have any issue with the flippers………just know what the heck you’re trying to flip.
I also hate when people tell me they are a military veteran as part of the negotiation. Not relevant
They are just used to being asked at Lowes when making a purchase.
It's probably because I wear a Retired Air Force MSgt hat and wear an Air Force sweatshirt, but that might not be a total give away, and I'll always ask "can I get a military discount" (which doesn't work very well on the local Air Force base).
@MEJ7070 said:
Nothing wrong with anybody looking for deals……One point that I haven’t seen brought up here yet is the simple aspect of quality.
When I see the “data” guys marching around the bourse with their iPads trying to comp every coin in the room, I rarely get the impression that they’re hunting nice coins. Just low prices.
I’m not a coin dealer, but I am an entrepreneur and a small businessman. My entire model is simply offering a better, more comprehensive service than my competitors. Because my service is better, I charge more than they do.
Many times, I’ve “lost” a potential new client immediately after quoting my rate. That’s OK. My retention rate is very high and “word of mouth” has been better than just about any advertising I could pay for.
If you want quality, you have to pay for quality or just hope to get really lucky. I think that’s true in just about anything in the Western world, and it certainly is true for numismatics.
Does that mean you need to be a millionaire to have a great coin collection? Certainly not. It’s all relative. If I’m a Roosevelt dime Dansco collector (like my daughter), I can “fill the hole” at melt with anything out of a dealers’ 90% box, or I can cough up $20-$30 for a nicely toned raw UNC. If I want the UNC, though, I shouldn’t expect the seller of the coin to give me the same price as the one sitting in the 90% box.
I recently witnessed a “negotiation” involving a very PQ, beautifully toned better date WLH in a 58 holder. The seller was asking a high, but not stratospheric price. iPad guy came up next to me, scouted the coin, then pulled up eBay comps for that particular date and showed the seller a bunch of dipped out, blast white examples in 58 holders that have right fully sold for way less. When the dealer wouldn’t budge, iPad guy calls him a “crook” and storms off. I found it to be pretty jaw dropping tbh.
This was obviously just one instance. To me, however, a lot of the ipad hagglers seem to view every PCGS MS 64 as the same thing.
It’s definitely people coming over from the sports card world imho. Glad to have them as I’m one of them too. But it’s easy to spot someone who loves and appreciates coins vs someone who loves and appreciates trying to flip stuff. I don’t have any issue with the flippers………just know what the heck you’re trying to flip.
It's not a "deal" just because you haggle me down 10%. That's especially true if I marked it up 15% expecting you to haggle.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There was one time that I didn’t haggle, at all. Saw something very rare that I really needed on a Saturday afternoon. I didn’t want to to lose it by waiting for an email or text response or waiting to call on the phone Monday morning. I just clicked ‘Buy it now’. It wasn’t worth the risk to lose a once in a lifetime purchase. I know the OP is talking about Coin shows, but people haggle online, too.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My biggest problem in negotiating is the comp crap by both the dealers your offering a coin too, and the vest pocketers trying to buy from you when you have an exceptional coin. Those folks buy by the numbers, wouldnt recognize a great coin if it bit em in the behind. Sometimes you (both ways) need to step up in those cases.
I was in a coin shop many years ago in Laughlin Nevada.
There was a tray of Nice looking Mercury Dimes (probably 40/50 dimes)
I asked How Much?
Owner said $1.50 each / I offered $1.20 each for all of them
The Owner said he would take that offer as he had more in the back.
He bought them out, another 500 ( the condition was just a nice)
So I bought them as well
@jdimmick said:
My biggest problem in negotiating is the comp crap by both the dealers your offering a coin too, and the vest pocketers trying to buy from you when you have an exceptional coin. Those folks buy by the numbers, wouldnt recognize a great coin if it bit em in the behind. Sometimes you (both ways) need to step up in those cases.
I agree, but it depends on how much the step up price is. A dealer who sets up at our local show has a good eye and generally prices around Bid, and I’ve done a fair amount of business with him over the years. He once had a Bust quarter with beautiful concentric rim toning on both sides. He (almost apologetically) wanted full GS XF Ask for it. I didn’t hesitate or quibble, and started writing the check immediately. I’m sure others had seen it and passed because it was “too much”….
But at FUN, another dealer friend showed me a similarly toned A&R seated quarter. A coin I liked a lot, but he was asking >2x retail price guide. He may eventually get it, but to me we were so far apart I didn’t even want to negotiate it.
You have to be in control and not let them talk you down. Or quote a high enough price giving them 10 pct off does not put that much of a dent in the deal. The people who try talk one down IMO probably for most part have no concept of pricing. So they try low ball you down pad their incompotence. They are not some kind of all knowing bourse room god lol.
I had a bunch of raw CSA notes I bought few years ago from dealer setup next to me and recently got them graded - banked really big margin on it. One dealer guy setup up behind me tried rip me told him no. Dealer across aisle gave me what I wanted many very low pop. You have to be in control not them. What wb really sad is sell stuff low margin but still be in the red from opex.
Of course there is stuff that is low margin (generic gold) no matter what and will need quick turnover or put it back in SDB until it glides higher.
Comments
I usually offer more just to make sure I get it.
Nothing wrong with anybody looking for deals……One point that I haven’t seen brought up here yet is the simple aspect of quality.
When I see the “data” guys marching around the bourse with their iPads trying to comp every coin in the room, I rarely get the impression that they’re hunting nice coins. Just low prices.
I’m not a coin dealer, but I am an entrepreneur and a small businessman. My entire model is simply offering a better, more comprehensive service than my competitors. Because my service is better, I charge more than they do.
Many times, I’ve “lost” a potential new client immediately after quoting my rate. That’s OK. My retention rate is very high and “word of mouth” has been better than just about any advertising I could pay for.
If you want quality, you have to pay for quality or just hope to get really lucky. I think that’s true in just about anything in the Western world, and it certainly is true for numismatics.
Does that mean you need to be a millionaire to have a great coin collection? Certainly not. It’s all relative. If I’m a Roosevelt dime Dansco collector (like my daughter), I can “fill the hole” at melt with anything out of a dealers’ 90% box, or I can cough up $20-$30 for a nicely toned raw UNC. If I want the UNC, though, I shouldn’t expect the seller of the coin to give me the same price as the one sitting in the 90% box.
I recently witnessed a “negotiation” involving a very PQ, beautifully toned better date WLH in a 58 holder. The seller was asking a high, but not stratospheric price. iPad guy came up next to me, scouted the coin, then pulled up eBay comps for that particular date and showed the seller a bunch of dipped out, blast white examples in 58 holders that have right fully sold for way less. When the dealer wouldn’t budge, iPad guy calls him a “crook” and storms off. I found it to be pretty jaw dropping tbh.
This was obviously just one instance. To me, however, a lot of the ipad hagglers seem to view every PCGS MS 64 as the same thing.
It’s definitely people coming over from the sports card world imho. Glad to have them as I’m one of them too. But it’s easy to spot someone who loves and appreciates coins vs someone who loves and appreciates trying to flip stuff. I don’t have any issue with the flippers………just know what the heck you’re trying to flip.
It's probably because I wear a Retired Air Force MSgt hat and wear an Air Force sweatshirt, but that might not be a total give away, and I'll always ask "can I get a military discount" (which doesn't work very well on the local Air Force base).
It's not a "deal" just because you haggle me down 10%. That's especially true if I marked it up 15% expecting you to haggle.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There was one time that I didn’t haggle, at all. Saw something very rare that I really needed on a Saturday afternoon. I didn’t want to to lose it by waiting for an email or text response or waiting to call on the phone Monday morning. I just clicked ‘Buy it now’. It wasn’t worth the risk to lose a once in a lifetime purchase. I know the OP is talking about Coin shows, but people haggle online, too.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
My biggest problem in negotiating is the comp crap by both the dealers your offering a coin too, and the vest pocketers trying to buy from you when you have an exceptional coin. Those folks buy by the numbers, wouldnt recognize a great coin if it bit em in the behind. Sometimes you (both ways) need to step up in those cases.
Where is that fine line from Negotiating/Haggling
I was in a coin shop many years ago in Laughlin Nevada.
There was a tray of Nice looking Mercury Dimes (probably 40/50 dimes)
I asked How Much?
Owner said $1.50 each / I offered $1.20 each for all of them
The Owner said he would take that offer as he had more in the back.
He bought them out, another 500 ( the condition was just a nice)
So I bought them as well
It's not a "deal" just because you haggle me down 10%. That's especially true if I marked it up 15% expecting you to haggle.
It's a deal if the buyer thinks they got a deal.
I agree, but it depends on how much the step up price is. A dealer who sets up at our local show has a good eye and generally prices around Bid, and I’ve done a fair amount of business with him over the years. He once had a Bust quarter with beautiful concentric rim toning on both sides. He (almost apologetically) wanted full GS XF Ask for it. I didn’t hesitate or quibble, and started writing the check immediately. I’m sure others had seen it and passed because it was “too much”….
But at FUN, another dealer friend showed me a similarly toned A&R seated quarter. A coin I liked a lot, but he was asking >2x retail price guide. He may eventually get it, but to me we were so far apart I didn’t even want to negotiate it.
Any many, many other retail establishments. I see no harm in asking that question.
Guy I know is a police officer…veterans, first responders and teachers all get ‘preferred treatment’ on pretty much any minor traffic offense.
Even if they paid 2x what the same coin across town?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
You have to be in control and not let them talk you down. Or quote a high enough price giving them 10 pct off does not put that much of a dent in the deal. The people who try talk one down IMO probably for most part have no concept of pricing. So they try low ball you down pad their incompotence. They are not some kind of all knowing bourse room god lol.
I had a bunch of raw CSA notes I bought few years ago from dealer setup next to me and recently got them graded - banked really big margin on it. One dealer guy setup up behind me tried rip me told him no. Dealer across aisle gave me what I wanted many very low pop. You have to be in control not them. What wb really sad is sell stuff low margin but still be in the red from opex.
Of course there is stuff that is low margin (generic gold) no matter what and will need quick turnover or put it back in SDB until it glides higher.