@Connecticoin said:
There are 5 past results on GC which range in “hammer” price (what you would get for the coin as consignor) from $1,650 to $3,500. Two are NGC and three are ANACS. Yours might fetch the higher end of the range being PCGS and fairly nice looking.
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
@davewesen said:
Whoever filled that album (even if in the early 1960's) more than likely bought it as a collector coin. It is unlikely they found it searching rolls as a kid or as change.
You say you want it to go to a collector, but that is where it will be for awhile before they sell it. There may be dealers and/or auction houses along the way both before and after.
The 16-D is one of the few I don’t believe I have a sales receipt for. I’m not sure where he got it.
@davewesen said:
Whoever filled that album (even if in the early 1960's) more than likely bought it as a collector coin. It is unlikely they found it searching rolls as a kid or as change.
You say you want it to go to a collector, but that is where it will be for awhile before they sell it. There may be dealers and/or auction houses along the way both before and after.
The 16-D is one of the few I don’t believe I have a sales receipt for. I’m not sure where he got it.
@mr1931S said: no contest that this is not a full band coin. I agree. That does not explain what I posted above. That’s what I was looking for some clarity on.
Right. My bad. I realized later that I hadn't fully grasped what you were really saying. Good luck in selling your coin if that's what you decide to do. I remark about ebay as a place to avoid for expensive coins like your '16-D mainly because of the exorbitant fees they will charge the seller of same.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be.---Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States of America, 1801-1809. Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration of Independence.
Not here to make offers on coins thru this thread, but its worth way more than 2k, (Id pay way more than that myself) Auction is your best bet, GC is Great, I love Ian and his staff, I just recently placed a 2 Million dollar consignment deal thru them the past year for a client, and results were solid Client happy, Im happy and Im sure some buyers were happy with coins that have been off market for years. My own personal stuff when the time comes, that's where its going to GC(as several have in past) But I will add, one area that can be a bit soft at times thru their platform is net graded coins. I sold a few over the years only to see the exact same coin sold a few months later on Ebay for considerably more money. But Ebay brings it own issues, I have been on there for 25+ years, so have a good following, but you also have to watch out for fraud, and other potential problems especially on larger $ items. Forget shows , you will get creamed by most dealers unless you attend a significant national one, especially on net coins. I went to Raleigh this weekend, and saw several folks offering some great stuff to several of the dealers and getting really low ball offers. I am very respectful of other dealers table, and business, so I stay out of their business, but I was thinking to myself, Man, I sure wish they would have brought this to my shop!!!
I would resubmit a couple more times and go for the gusto $7500 that's stated for a VF35 grade. You surely have another $40 to do that? Depending on the result, if necessary, keep resubmitting it until you are certain/ready to give up on it.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
@NerdsLTD said:
My 1916-D came back as 1916-D 10C N92FB. I've examined hundreds of auctions and this is the most beautiful 16-D I've seen that grades right in the middle of the scale. I have a complete set of Mercury Dimes, most of which have a similar beautiful rainbow toning. The image doesn't look like FB to me. I'm hoping to sell this set directly to collectors and want to be sure I'm insisting on a fair price. Any input would be welcome.
When I look this cert # up, all I see is VF Details-Cleaned. Nothing about Full Bands. And the PCGS #4907 is for non-Full Bands coins. Full Bands coins are #4907. Also, the 92 code at PCGS just stands for Cleaned. Still a pretty coin though, even if AT at one time.
@Connecticoin said:
There are 5 past results on GC which range in “hammer” price (what you would get for the coin as consignor) from $1,650 to $3,500. Two are NGC and three are ANACS. Yours might fetch the higher end of the range being PCGS and fairly nice looking.
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
This is the most recent Heritage sale of a VF details, cleaned example:
HAVE A SIMILAR ITEM TO SELL?
Ask about cash advances.
Free Appraisal
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
Auction 1378 | Lot 7083 » Dimes » Mercury Dimes
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
SERVICE
PCGS Genuine
@mr1931S said: no contest that this is not a full band coin. I agree. That does not explain what I posted above. That’s what I was looking for some clarity on.
Right. My bad. I realized later that I hadn't fully grasped what you were really saying. Good luck in selling your coin if that's what you decide to do. I remark about ebay as a place to avoid for expensive coins like your '16-D mainly because of the exorbitant fees they will charge the seller of same.
Lmfao. The "exorbitant " 9% fees which are lower than EVERY OTHER VENUE including GC.
Harsche! [I'm going to join the fun. ]
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The reason the code probably has FB in descrip, is when the coin number was entered in system, the code is used for 16-d MSFB, once coin is graded and given a regular grade, IF FB it will retain, if not will be dropped, since it was a details grade it remains in code 92 for whatever reason. (which I cant answer as i dont know that proces)
If you go to PCGS coin number codes booklet and use it for specific coins, it uses the same code which is usually has the designations built in , so Like 1909-s VDB code in booklet is for red, but if coin is say rb or bn, once graded it will use correct coin number, same as like FBL franklins fs jeffersons, etc cameo and so on. I used to us the book for looking up coin numbers, but now I just use coin facts, more precise coin number info etc.
@davewesen said:
Whoever filled that album (even if in the early 1960's) more than likely bought it as a collector coin. It is unlikely they found it searching rolls as a kid or as change.
You say you want it to go to a collector, but that is where it will be for awhile before they sell it. There may be dealers and/or auction houses along the way both before and after.
The 16-D is one of the few I don’t believe I have a sales receipt for. I’m not sure where he got it.
@NerdsLTD said:
My 1916-D came back as 1916-D 10C N92FB. I've examined hundreds of auctions and this is the most beautiful 16-D I've seen that grades right in the middle of the scale. I have a complete set of Mercury Dimes, most of which have a similar beautiful rainbow toning. The image doesn't look like FB to me. I'm hoping to sell this set directly to collectors and want to be sure I'm insisting on a fair price. Any input would be welcome.
When I look this cert # up, all I see is VF Details-Cleaned. Nothing about Full Bands. And the PCGS #4907 is for non-Full Bands coins. Full Bands coins are #4907. Also, the 92 code at PCGS just stands for Cleaned. Still a pretty coin though, even if AT at one time.
Genuine - VF Details (92 - Cleaned)
Kind regards,
George
@giorgio11 the genesis of the FB portion of the question was higher up in the thread. check it here.
@jdimmick said:
The reason the code probably has FB in descrip, is when the coin number was entered in system, the code is used for 16-d MSFB, once coin is graded and given a regular grade, IF FB it will retain, if not will be dropped, since it was a details grade it remains in code 92 for whatever reason. (which I cant answer as i dont know that proces)
If you go to PCGS coin number codes booklet and use it for specific coins, it uses the same code which is usually has the designations built in , so Like 1909-s VDB code in booklet is for red, but if coin is say rb or bn, once graded it will use correct coin number, same as like FBL franklins fs jeffersons, etc cameo and so on. I used to us the book for looking up coin numbers, but now I just use coin facts, more precise coin number info etc.
@Connecticoin said:
There are 5 past results on GC which range in “hammer” price (what you would get for the coin as consignor) from $1,650 to $3,500. Two are NGC and three are ANACS. Yours might fetch the higher end of the range being PCGS and fairly nice looking.
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
This is the most recent Heritage sale of a VF details, cleaned example:
HAVE A SIMILAR ITEM TO SELL?
Ask about cash advances.
Free Appraisal
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
Auction 1378 | Lot 7083 » Dimes » Mercury Dimes
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
SERVICE
PCGS Genuine
That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best. @jmlanzaf absolutely jump in on the fun. Do all auction houses report to the IRS for sale of numismatic rarities? This coin will fetch more than silver melt (easy to understand reporting requirements).
@leothelyon said:
I would resubmit a couple more times and go for the gusto $7500 that's stated for a VF35 grade. You surely have another $40 to do that? Depending on the result, if necessary, keep resubmitting it until you are certain/ready to give up on it.
Leo
@leothelyon From what I've read on the forums, it's mostly useless to re-submit. Are you thinking crack out and re-submit, or re-submit without cracking out?
Given that you would like to sell the complete collection, and assuming all coins have not been sent to PCGS, it would seem worthwhile for you to show the collection to dealers in person. Where are you located?
If you want to buy a PCGS lottery ticket and resubmit the coin then I would suggest you simply send it back in its current holder and allow PCGS to regrade the piece. Some folks will say that PCGS will be biased to keep it in a details 92 holder, but they will crack it out prior to graders seeing it and I don't think the previous PCGS grade follows the coin through the grading process to the graders. The reason I suggest having PCGS crack the coin out is that sometimes (not often, but sometimes) folks scratch, ding or otherwise damage a coin when cracking it out and I would rather let PCGS do that.
"That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best."
Actually, you have gotten pretty consistent feedback as to how to sell the coin. There have been five of us who suggested GC and one who has given more HA data, but all of us have pretty much said GC or HA while ebay was more risky. The value will be established by the auction participation and we can have insight into the window of its value, but can't exactly pinpoint the value.
Leo is a little bit off on his "$40" cost estimate for a $7500 coin. Grading is $70 + $10 handling + $41 return shipping = $121. Shipping to PCGS by Priority Mail Small Flat Rate Box, registered (insured shipping only goes up to $5000) would be $59, for an all-in cost of $180 for grading.
@MasonG said:
Leo is a little bit off on his "$40" cost estimate for a $7500 coin. Grading is $70 + $10 handling + $41 return shipping = $121. Shipping to PCGS by Priority Mail Small Flat Rate Box, registered (insured shipping only goes up to $5000) would be $59, for an all-in cost of $180 for grading.
@MasonG If it were your money would you re-submit? Same question, crack it out and submit raw or re-submit encapsulated?
@TomB said:
"That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best."
Actually, you have gotten pretty consistent feedback as to how to sell the coin. There have been five of us who suggested GC and one who has given more HA data, but all of us have pretty much said GC or HA while ebay was more risky. The value will be established by the auction participation and we can have insight into the window of its value, but can't exactly pinpoint the value.
@TomB Right you are! Pinpointing is impossible and your advice has been excellent! My invitation was to encourage anyone else with other opinions to chime in. I don't recall mentioning inconsistent advice. Apologies if I gave that impression.
@leothelyon said:
I would resubmit a couple more times and go for the gusto $7500 that's stated for a VF35 grade. You surely have another $40 to do that? Depending on the result, if necessary, keep resubmitting it until you are certain/ready to give up on it.
Leo
@leothelyon From what I've read on the forums, it's mostly useless to re-submit. Are you thinking crack out and re-submit, or re-submit without cracking out?
You can do either. I don't know if there's an advantage over the other. But I do know of a couple collectors who bided their time and eventually received the grade they wanted. I have had one coin not cross but cracking it out, I did receive a grade. Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
@Connecticoin said:
There are 5 past results on GC which range in “hammer” price (what you would get for the coin as consignor) from $1,650 to $3,500. Two are NGC and three are ANACS. Yours might fetch the higher end of the range being PCGS and fairly nice looking.
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
This is the most recent Heritage sale of a VF details, cleaned example:
HAVE A SIMILAR ITEM TO SELL?
Ask about cash advances.
Free Appraisal
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
Auction 1378 | Lot 7083 » Dimes » Mercury Dimes
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
SERVICE
PCGS Genuine
That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best. @jmlanzaf absolutely jump in on the fun. Do all auction houses report to the IRS for sale of numismatic rarities? This coin will fetch more than silver melt (easy to understand reporting requirements).
Based upon the images provided and reported sales of detail grade examples, I’d estimate your coin at approximately $3000-$3600.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Connecticoin said:
There are 5 past results on GC which range in “hammer” price (what you would get for the coin as consignor) from $1,650 to $3,500. Two are NGC and three are ANACS. Yours might fetch the higher end of the range being PCGS and fairly nice looking.
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
This is the most recent Heritage sale of a VF details, cleaned example:
HAVE A SIMILAR ITEM TO SELL?
Ask about cash advances.
Free Appraisal
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
Auction 1378 | Lot 7083 » Dimes » Mercury Dimes
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
SERVICE
PCGS Genuine
That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best. @jmlanzaf absolutely jump in on the fun. Do all auction houses report to the IRS for sale of numismatic rarities? This coin will fetch more than silver melt (easy to understand reporting requirements).
Your tax liability is the same regardless of 1099s. Do I really have to say it?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's a very nice looking coin. I'd be inclined to thumb it and let it sit on the furnace a while. I can see it straight grading a nice VF with a little luck.
@cladking said:
It's a very nice looking coin. I'd be inclined to thumb it and let it sit on the furnace a while. I can see it straight grading a nice VF with a little luck.
It’s a very nice looking coin. I wouldn’t resort to coin doctoring.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A lot of people clean coins improperly and always have. Coins acquire problems even when sitting or shoved into folders and albums. Sometimes it's something as simple as decades of cigarette smoke sticking to them but even this can react with and damage the metal and then someone tries to make it look better through mechanical or chemical means.
This coin was pulled out of circulation in the mid-'20's so has had a century to acquire problems. It sure did a lot better than most of them.
@cladking said:
It's a very nice looking coin. I'd be inclined to thumb it and let it sit on the furnace a while. I can see it straight grading a nice VF with a little luck.
It’s a very nice looking coin. I wouldn’t resort to coin doctoring.
To each his own but I don't think of mimicking the rigors of circulation as "coin doctoring". If you get good at selecting the right candidates most coins will look better and more natural after being exposed to the natural environment at elevated temperature. I certainly wouldn't thumb this coin without a good look see first. Sometimes even worse surfaces are exposed.
It simply depends on the coin. If the surfaces are intact then forcibly removing residue and accelerating resurfacing isn't "coin doctoring" it's restoration.
Again though, you need experience and you can't tell from a picture what coins have good surfaces and which don't. Coins with bad surfaces and those with fragile surfaces should be left alone. You can't give a coin with bad surfaces a good one and this is something that would be "coin doctoring".
I've always dealt with a lot of low value coins where if i made a mistake it was no great loss. With experience you learn to tell which coins can't be restored and which can.
@cladking said:
It's a very nice looking coin. I'd be inclined to thumb it and let it sit on the furnace a while. I can see it straight grading a nice VF with a little luck.
It’s a very nice looking coin. I wouldn’t resort to coin doctoring.
To each his own but I don't think of mimicking the rigors of circulation as "coin doctoring". If you get good at selecting the right candidates most coins will look better and more natural after being exposed to the natural environment at elevated temperature. I certainly wouldn't thumb this coin without a good look see first. Sometimes even worse surfaces are exposed.
It simply depends on the coin. If the surfaces are intact then forcibly removing residue and accelerating resurfacing isn't "coin doctoring" it's restoration.
Again though, you need experience and you can't tell from a picture what coins have good surfaces and which don't. Coins with bad surfaces and those with fragile surfaces should be left alone. You can't give a coin with bad surfaces a good one and this is something that would be "coin doctoring".
I've always dealt with a lot of low value coins where if i made a mistake it was no great loss. With experience you learn to tell which coins can't be restored and which can.
Below is an old post of yours. Regardless of whether you admit it, altering a coin (by thumbing or other means) to hide a cleaning, amounts to coin doctoring.
cladadking Posts: 28,995 ✭✭✭✭✭ December 30, 2004 1:32PM
The oil will also help to lift off grime and debris. It can hide an old cleaning and make a coin appear much more natural. Very few circulated coins look worse afterward, but don't do it if there's corrosion or it will be highlighted.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The oil will also help to lift off grime and debris. It can hide an old cleaning and make a coin appear much more natural. Very few circulated coins look worse afterward, but don't do it if there's corrosion or it will be highlighted.
Yes. A darker color free of debris and contaminants will often make a more pleasing appearance. The objective isn't to fix surfaces it's to impart a more pleasing and natural appearance. Virtually all circulated collectible coin has gone through this process at least once after it's 100 years old. A lot of those old scarce AU's you treasure were Gems but wiped with a cloth by collectors many times over the years. This is improper cleaning. You never wipe or thumb a BU coin because it causes damage. It does not damage a VF. "VF" means it's already been fingered and thumbed by thousands of people which is why it's VF. It's clanked in pockets and counters for decades and was picked up with grubby fingers that does leave a residue.
The graders don't clean coins but the fact is very few coins go to the graders with old peanut butter or layers of cigarette smoke on them. Somebody removes it before the graders see it.
Are you now proposing that no coins can be wiped or cleaned in any way or it's details and any interruption of a details grade is "coin doctoring"?
I don't doctor my coins and nobody is being forced to buy them.
Perhaps I shouldn't admit this but most of the coins I've thumbed cost less than 50c and were acquired at a steep discount because they were ugly. Once the contaminants are removed and the coins darken they can increase a lot in price. The most common culprit is tobacco smoke; layer after layer of tobacco smoke. Most of them look completely natural after thumbing because thumbing is how the coins got worn down before meeting a smoking coin collector.
Maybe the million dollar Gems don't need anything but postage to get it to PCGS but I can assure you there are lots of indian cent folders with lots of coins that have to be thumbed or sold as culls.
You just get an eye for what you know and what you experience.
@cladking said: The oil will also help to lift off grime and debris. It can hide an old cleaning and make a coin appear much more natural. Very few circulated coins look worse afterward, but don't do it if there's corrosion or it will be highlighted.
Yes. A darker color free of debris and contaminants will often make a more pleasing appearance. The objective isn't to fix surfaces it's to impart a more pleasing and natural appearance. Virtually all circulated collectible coin has gone through this process at least once after it's 100 years old. A lot of those old scarce AU's you treasure were Gems but wiped with a cloth by collectors many times over the years. This is improper cleaning. You never wipe or thumb a BU coin because it causes damage. It does not damage a VF. "VF" means it's already been fingered and thumbed by thousands of people which is why it's VF. It's clanked in pockets and counters for decades and was picked up with grubby fingers that does leave a residue.
The graders don't clean coins but the fact is very few coins go to the graders with old peanut butter or layers of cigarette smoke on them. Somebody removes it before the graders see it.
Are you now proposing that no coins can be wiped or cleaned in any way or it's details and any interruption of a details grade is "coin doctoring"?
I don't doctor my coins and nobody is being forced to buy them.
Old cleanings are bad. Nice surfaces are good.
Yes, old cleanings are bad and nice surfaces are good. Thumbing and other forms of coin doctoring are also bad.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Answers
Thank you @Connecticoin ! Do you have advice for a venue?
The 16-D is one of the few I don’t believe I have a sales receipt for. I’m not sure where he got it.
It could have been a gift or inheritance
Right. My bad. I realized later that I hadn't fully grasped what you were really saying. Good luck in selling your coin if that's what you decide to do. I remark about ebay as a place to avoid for expensive coins like your '16-D mainly because of the exorbitant fees they will charge the seller of same.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be.---Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States of America, 1801-1809. Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration of Independence.
Not here to make offers on coins thru this thread, but its worth way more than 2k, (Id pay way more than that myself) Auction is your best bet, GC is Great, I love Ian and his staff, I just recently placed a 2 Million dollar consignment deal thru them the past year for a client, and results were solid Client happy, Im happy and Im sure some buyers were happy with coins that have been off market for years. My own personal stuff when the time comes, that's where its going to GC(as several have in past) But I will add, one area that can be a bit soft at times thru their platform is net graded coins. I sold a few over the years only to see the exact same coin sold a few months later on Ebay for considerably more money. But Ebay brings it own issues, I have been on there for 25+ years, so have a good following, but you also have to watch out for fraud, and other potential problems especially on larger $ items. Forget shows , you will get creamed by most dealers unless you attend a significant national one, especially on net coins. I went to Raleigh this weekend, and saw several folks offering some great stuff to several of the dealers and getting really low ball offers. I am very respectful of other dealers table, and business, so I stay out of their business, but I was thinking to myself, Man, I sure wish they would have brought this to my shop!!!
I would resubmit a couple more times and go for the gusto $7500 that's stated for a VF35 grade. You surely have another $40 to do that? Depending on the result, if necessary, keep resubmitting it until you are certain/ready to give up on it.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
When I look this cert # up, all I see is VF Details-Cleaned. Nothing about Full Bands. And the PCGS #4907 is for non-Full Bands coins. Full Bands coins are #4907. Also, the 92 code at PCGS just stands for Cleaned. Still a pretty coin though, even if AT at one time.
Genuine - VF Details (92 - Cleaned)
Kind regards,
George
This is the most recent Heritage sale of a VF details, cleaned example:
HAVE A SIMILAR ITEM TO SELL?
Ask about cash advances.
Free Appraisal
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
Auction 1378 | Lot 7083 » Dimes » Mercury Dimes
1916-D 10C -- Cleaned -- PCGS Genuine. VF Details. Mintage 264,000. (PCGS# 4906)
SERVICE
PCGS Genuine
GRADE
VF20
AUCTION ENDED
Nov 24, 2024
Auction Archives
Sold For: $2,880.00
https://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-dimes/1916-d-10c-cleaned-pcgs-genuine-vf-details-mintage-264-000-pcgs-4906-/a/1378-7083.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Lmfao. The "exorbitant " 9% fees which are lower than EVERY OTHER VENUE including GC.
Harsche! [I'm going to join the fun. ]
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The reason the code probably has FB in descrip, is when the coin number was entered in system, the code is used for 16-d MSFB, once coin is graded and given a regular grade, IF FB it will retain, if not will be dropped, since it was a details grade it remains in code 92 for whatever reason. (which I cant answer as i dont know that proces)
If you go to PCGS coin number codes booklet and use it for specific coins, it uses the same code which is usually has the designations built in , so Like 1909-s VDB code in booklet is for red, but if coin is say rb or bn, once graded it will use correct coin number, same as like FBL franklins fs jeffersons, etc cameo and so on. I used to us the book for looking up coin numbers, but now I just use coin facts, more precise coin number info etc.
That's entirely possible.
@giorgio11 the genesis of the FB portion of the question was higher up in the thread. check it here.
Interesting. Thank you for your insight.
That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best. @jmlanzaf absolutely jump in on the fun. Do all auction houses report to the IRS for sale of numismatic rarities? This coin will fetch more than silver melt (easy to understand reporting requirements).
@leothelyon From what I've read on the forums, it's mostly useless to re-submit. Are you thinking crack out and re-submit, or re-submit without cracking out?
Given that you would like to sell the complete collection, and assuming all coins have not been sent to PCGS, it would seem worthwhile for you to show the collection to dealers in person. Where are you located?
If you want to buy a PCGS lottery ticket and resubmit the coin then I would suggest you simply send it back in its current holder and allow PCGS to regrade the piece. Some folks will say that PCGS will be biased to keep it in a details 92 holder, but they will crack it out prior to graders seeing it and I don't think the previous PCGS grade follows the coin through the grading process to the graders. The reason I suggest having PCGS crack the coin out is that sometimes (not often, but sometimes) folks scratch, ding or otherwise damage a coin when cracking it out and I would rather let PCGS do that.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
"That's what makes this so difficult. There are vanishingly few data points. Where data falls short, I'm hoping the wisdom of this group may step in. I don't expect consensus on a venue, but welcome suggestions with facts supporting why a venue is best."
Actually, you have gotten pretty consistent feedback as to how to sell the coin. There have been five of us who suggested GC and one who has given more HA data, but all of us have pretty much said GC or HA while ebay was more risky. The value will be established by the auction participation and we can have insight into the window of its value, but can't exactly pinpoint the value.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Leo is a little bit off on his "$40" cost estimate for a $7500 coin. Grading is $70 + $10 handling + $41 return shipping = $121. Shipping to PCGS by Priority Mail Small Flat Rate Box, registered (insured shipping only goes up to $5000) would be $59, for an all-in cost of $180 for grading.
@MasonG If it were your money would you re-submit? Same question, crack it out and submit raw or re-submit encapsulated?
@TomB Right you are! Pinpointing is impossible and your advice has been excellent! My invitation was to encourage anyone else with other opinions to chime in. I don't recall mentioning inconsistent advice. Apologies if I gave that impression.
I wouldn't re-submit, I'd expect the toning would be considered questionable.
For the sake of argument though, if I was to re-submit, I'd crack it out first. I don't see any upside to sending it in encapsulated.
But then, that's just me.
You can do either. I don't know if there's an advantage over the other. But I do know of a couple collectors who bided their time and eventually received the grade they wanted. I have had one coin not cross but cracking it out, I did receive a grade. Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Based upon the images provided and reported sales of detail grade examples, I’d estimate your coin at approximately $3000-$3600.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Your tax liability is the same regardless of 1099s. Do I really have to say it?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's a very nice looking coin. I'd be inclined to thumb it and let it sit on the furnace a while. I can see it straight grading a nice VF with a little luck.
It’s a very nice looking coin. I wouldn’t resort to coin doctoring.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A lot of people clean coins improperly and always have. Coins acquire problems even when sitting or shoved into folders and albums. Sometimes it's something as simple as decades of cigarette smoke sticking to them but even this can react with and damage the metal and then someone tries to make it look better through mechanical or chemical means.
This coin was pulled out of circulation in the mid-'20's so has had a century to acquire problems. It sure did a lot better than most of them.
To each his own but I don't think of mimicking the rigors of circulation as "coin doctoring". If you get good at selecting the right candidates most coins will look better and more natural after being exposed to the natural environment at elevated temperature. I certainly wouldn't thumb this coin without a good look see first. Sometimes even worse surfaces are exposed.
It simply depends on the coin. If the surfaces are intact then forcibly removing residue and accelerating resurfacing isn't "coin doctoring" it's restoration.
Again though, you need experience and you can't tell from a picture what coins have good surfaces and which don't. Coins with bad surfaces and those with fragile surfaces should be left alone. You can't give a coin with bad surfaces a good one and this is something that would be "coin doctoring".
I've always dealt with a lot of low value coins where if i made a mistake it was no great loss. With experience you learn to tell which coins can't be restored and which can.
Below is an old post of yours. Regardless of whether you admit it, altering a coin (by thumbing or other means) to hide a cleaning, amounts to coin doctoring.
cladadking Posts: 28,995 ✭✭✭✭✭ December 30, 2004 1:32PM
The oil will also help to lift off grime and debris. It can hide an old cleaning and make a coin appear much more natural. Very few circulated coins look worse afterward, but don't do it if there's corrosion or it will be highlighted.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The oil will also help to lift off grime and debris. It can hide an old cleaning and make a coin appear much more natural. Very few circulated coins look worse afterward, but don't do it if there's corrosion or it will be highlighted.
Yes. A darker color free of debris and contaminants will often make a more pleasing appearance. The objective isn't to fix surfaces it's to impart a more pleasing and natural appearance. Virtually all circulated collectible coin has gone through this process at least once after it's 100 years old. A lot of those old scarce AU's you treasure were Gems but wiped with a cloth by collectors many times over the years. This is improper cleaning. You never wipe or thumb a BU coin because it causes damage. It does not damage a VF. "VF" means it's already been fingered and thumbed by thousands of people which is why it's VF. It's clanked in pockets and counters for decades and was picked up with grubby fingers that does leave a residue.
The graders don't clean coins but the fact is very few coins go to the graders with old peanut butter or layers of cigarette smoke on them. Somebody removes it before the graders see it.
Are you now proposing that no coins can be wiped or cleaned in any way or it's details and any interruption of a details grade is "coin doctoring"?
I don't doctor my coins and nobody is being forced to buy them.
Old cleanings are bad. Nice surfaces are good.
Perhaps I shouldn't admit this but most of the coins I've thumbed cost less than 50c and were acquired at a steep discount because they were ugly. Once the contaminants are removed and the coins darken they can increase a lot in price. The most common culprit is tobacco smoke; layer after layer of tobacco smoke. Most of them look completely natural after thumbing because thumbing is how the coins got worn down before meeting a smoking coin collector.
Maybe the million dollar Gems don't need anything but postage to get it to PCGS but I can assure you there are lots of indian cent folders with lots of coins that have to be thumbed or sold as culls.
You just get an eye for what you know and what you experience.
Yes, old cleanings are bad and nice surfaces are good. Thumbing and other forms of coin doctoring are also bad.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Do not thumb the dime without advice. It is too valuable a coin to endanger.