@MasonG said:
Selling coins is how dealers pay their bills and put food on the table. They're going to do whatever it is they think is in their business's best interest in that endeavor. And if that includes leaving a show early, that's what they're going to do.
That's selfish! 😁 What about my needs?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MasonG said:
Selling coins is how dealers pay their bills and put food on the table. They're going to do whatever it is they think is in their business's best interest in that endeavor. And if that includes leaving a show early, that's what they're going to do.
That's selfish! 😁 What about my needs?
Sometimes, early departures aren’t even about best business interests - they can also be due to family matters/responsibilities which are of more importance than business.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There is a large venue in my area that hosts many hobby related shows. A dealer at an antique fire arm show told me that vendors are fined by the venue if they leave early.
@ambro51 said:
It’s called “the goes”. It’s when the FIRST guy begins the pack up routine. It spreads like wildfire and none can resist. It’s not just coin show…….anything run by old men for old men packs up early. Car shows. Hamfests (remember them) etc
@Downtown1974 said:
There is a large venue in my area that hosts many hobby related shows. A dealer at an antique fire arm show told me that vendors are fined by the venue if they leave early.
Coin shows have tried that. They also bumped the early leavers to the back of the table assignment lists.
It doesn't work.
-----Burton ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus") Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
This is slightly different but I rent office space for my business which deals with the public. I set my hours and the days the business is open. The business used to be open on Saturday but that turned out not to be cost or time effective. If things come up in life ie. family, trips, whatever, my office may be closed on days that it’s normally open. It’s my business and I’ll do whatever I so desire. If someone doesn’t like how I run my business they’re free to go elsewhere. I have no idea why a dealer has to stick around on a Saturday or Sunday. They’re paying for space at a show and they should be free to utilize the space however they choose to.
@skier07 said:
This is slightly different but I rent office space for my business which deals with the public. I set my hours and the days the business is open. The business used to be open on Saturday but that turned out not to be cost or time effective. If things come up in life ie. family, trips, whatever, my office may be closed on days that it’s normally open. It’s my business and I’ll do whatever I so desire. If someone doesn’t like how I run my business they’re free to go elsewhere. I have no idea why a dealer has to stick around on a Saturday or Sunday. They’re paying for space at a show and they should be free to utilize the space however they choose to.
Amen. I understand those who are disappointed with dealer absences, but they’re not entitled to dictate how one runs their business.
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
@MsMorrisine said:
and the disappointed kids can't see stuff because there are so few dealers and because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up because there are so few dealers means so few attendees which means so few dealers stay which means so few bother showing up
Gotta give you a star for the hard work.
Just think how long it would be if you double-spaced it.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
@Downtown1974 said:
There is a large venue in my area that hosts many hobby related shows. A dealer at an antique fire arm show told me that vendors are fined by the venue if they leave early.
Fining your customers when they don't do what you want? If coin dealers tried that, how do you think it would go?
@Downtown1974 said:
There is a large venue in my area that hosts many hobby related shows. A dealer at an antique fire arm show told me that vendors are fined by the venue if they leave early.
Fining your customers when they don't do what you want? If coin dealers tried that, how do you think it would go?
Presumably, the potential fines are included in the contract terms for the tables and dealers are free not to participate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This reminds me of a "new age" (their term) middle aged couple that would arrive at 3pm, closing time, on Saturday at the show I promoted in New Market, Maryland. They would come in and complain because all the dealers were packing up or had left. Finally, I asked why they continued to show up after I had explained numerous times dealers started packing at 1pm on Saturday because business died after 1pm. I asked why they did not show up on Friday or earlier on Saturday. Their response was that they did not feel like getting out of bed until later in the afternoons.
...
Regardless of how long promoters keep a show open or how long dealers stay, you are going to have people who do not like the schedule. My advice from promoting shows for 40+ years is to adjust YOUR schedule so you can make it whenever the dealers are there. Do not expect dealers to adjust their schedule to accommodate you 'just in case you show up.' And, yes, I have been a promoter and dealer both.
Thanksgiving National Battlefield Coin Show is November 28 & 29, 2025 at the Eisenhower Hotel Ballroom, Gettysburg, PA. Dealer Tables are available. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
@Downtown1974 said:
There is a large venue in my area that hosts many hobby related shows. A dealer at an antique fire arm show told me that vendors are fined by the venue if they leave early.
Fining your customers when they don't do what you want? If coin dealers tried that, how do you think it would go?
Presumably, the potential fines are included in the contract terms for the tables and dealers are free not to participate.
I used to assist a dealer at shows. One of them had a contract prohibiting early leaving. When he was ready to go, he packed up almost everything and left me behind, sitting there with 12 display cases with about a dozen coins total in them for the next few hours. The booth was staffed, with inventory for sale, just as the contract specified. Next show, I asked him what time he was leaving and how much longer he wanted me to stay and he said "Yeah- no. I talked to the promoter and we're not doing that anymore." And that was that.
edited to add... To be clear, when he said "We're not doing that anymore", he meant that he wasn't going to play that game and would be leaving when he chose to.
@Downtown1974 said:
There is a large venue in my area that hosts many hobby related shows. A dealer at an antique fire arm show told me that vendors are fined by the venue if they leave early.
Fining your customers when they don't do what you want? If coin dealers tried that, how do you think it would go?
Presumably, the potential fines are included in the contract terms for the tables and dealers are free not to participate.
I used to assist a dealer at shows. One of them had a contract prohibiting early leaving. When he was ready to go, he packed up almost everything and left me behind, sitting there with 12 display cases with about a dozen coins total in them for the next few hours. The booth was staffed, with inventory for sale, just as the contract specified. Next show, I asked him what time he was leaving and how much longer he wanted me to stay and he said "Yeah- no. I talked to the promoter and we're not doing that anymore." And that was that.
I know quite a few dealers who used to (and/or currently) do that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yep they are there to work, if you have employees do you tell them to knock off whenever they please?
No
Do you not expect 40 hours for 40 hours of pay?
Yes.
Your chicken/egg argument is silly, maybe if dealers honored the full show days more public would
attend.
Here the argument should make a connection between contacted workers on a job and the variety of amateurs, semi-pro, and professional sellers at a weekend market. But it reiterates an earlier point in the thread. And introduces a favorite topic, “I”, next.
And I've said this for years, coin shows are dead for the most part because many dealers only want to
attend shows for the dealer to dealer days.
Whine coda—
Why even have coins shows anymore if public interaction is so off-putting to dealers, just have dealer
only shows and stop pretending.
@jmlanzaf said:
But if you never have more then one customer on a Saturday, how many businesses will continue to have Saturdays hours? Staying open when there are no customers is also not a good business plan.
And it's not even true. Most dealers would love to have more interaction with buyers but you can't do that when the buyers aren't there. And, towards the end of the show, they typically aren't.
I know- chicken/egg. But that's the reality of it. I'm sure everybody would be happy to learn of a solution to the problem but until one is discovered, the rational thing to do is deal with the world as it is, not as you wish it was.
@PTVETTER said:
If I rent a house I can come and go as I please.
Think of shows in this though.
You can come whenever you want, but dealers have the same option to stay or go!
Dealers pay the rent and collectors come and go for free!
Apples and oranges, you don't rent a house to conduct business. If you want an apples to apples consider this. You pay rent for a retail space, advertise you are open Mon thru Sat but never open your shop on Fri or Sat, does that sound like a good business plan? I think most business owners would say no.
Even if you, I and most business owners would say that’s not a good business plan, the person who pays rent for a retail space is free to conduct his business that way. The same goes for dealers who rent tables at shows, unless there are restrictions in the contract with the show promoter.
I empathize with both collectors who attend the shows, as well as dealers who rent tables. And unfortunately, I’m not aware of any solutions that would make both groups happy.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@jmlanzaf said:
But if you never have more then one customer on a Saturday, how many businesses will continue to have Saturdays hours? Staying open when there are no customers is also not a good business plan.
Back to apples and oranges.
That example is hyperbolic. Make a point without extremes.
(But, that one customer buys the whole inventory and threw in a bird dog.)
When I was in Pennsylvania, I set up at a local show. I had a good customer come in rather late and he asked me how long I would be there. I said about an hour and a half. He said, OK, I will check the rest of the tables and I will stop at your table last. I was kind of wondering if I gave the wrong answer, but when he came back he spent several thousand dollars. So I did give him the right answer.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
@MFeld said:
Even if you, I and most business owners would say that’s not a good business plan, the person who pays rent for a retail space is free to conduct his business that way. The same goes for dealers who rent tables at shows, unless there are restrictions in the contract with the show promoter.
I empathize with both collectors who attend the shows, as well as dealers who rent tables. And unfortunately, I’m not aware of any solutions that would make both groups happy.
I never said that a business owner cannot do that, only that it would not be smart to advertise being open when you are not. Naturally unless show promoters started to ban/penalize leaving early, dealers will do as they please. And I have no expectation that promoters would penalize dealers that pack out early, after all most promoters are dealers. I'm also not saying that penalizing those who leave early is a solution to this. But I tire of dealers that complain about low attendance and low public engagement while simultaneously leaving before the show ends.
@coinbuf said:
But I tire of dealers that complain about low attendance and low public engagement while simultaneously leaving before the show ends.
YMMV, but I recall reading more posts started on this forum by collectors complaining about dealers leaving early than by dealers complaining about low attendance. Just sayin'.
But- "both sides", okay? So- now what? For many dealers, the solution to the problem of low attendance is to leave early, and they just do it. What is your solution for the problem of dealers leaving early?
@MFeld said:
Even if you, I and most business owners would say that’s not a good business plan, the person who pays rent for a retail space is free to conduct his business that way. The same goes for dealers who rent tables at shows, unless there are restrictions in the contract with the show promoter.
I empathize with both collectors who attend the shows, as well as dealers who rent tables. And unfortunately, I’m not aware of any solutions that would make both groups happy.
I never said that a business owner cannot do that, only that it would not be smart to advertise being open when you are not. Naturally unless show promoters started to ban/penalize leaving early, dealers will do as they please. And I have no expectation that promoters would penalize dealers that pack out early, after all most promoters are dealers. I'm also not saying that penalizing those who leave early is a solution to this. But I tire of dealers that complain about low attendance and low public engagement while simultaneously leaving before the show ends.
True, you never said business owners couldn’t do that and I didn’t mean to imply that you did.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have a friend who is a Seventh Day Adventist. He leaves shows Friday and doesn't show up on Saturdays. If I were still Shomer Shabbos, the same would be for me. He generally shares with another dealer at big shows, but us also always back in the Economy section. So there is no way of penalizing his absence other than disallowing futures tables entirely.
OTOH, one very high end dealer used to show up and leave after doing wholesale business and having a proxy just throw a coin or two in the case and sit there for a day or two in order to not lose the spot in the next show for vacancy. Technically, they played by the rules, but we all know they simply abandoned the show very early for their own (every show) reasons.
Perhaps in the show announcement of days/hours it could state a "warning" for Saturday/Sunday hours. Please be aware,the full compliment of dealers may not be in attendance for these days. Allows dealers to leave as they please,pre warns potential visitors so as not to have high expectations and thereby may be disappointed upon arrival.
Why advertise a show with table numbers if most will be empty for those 2 days.
Or limit your hunts to eBay etc. Their tables are usually stocked and are there even Saturday and Sunday.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@MasonG said:
YMMV, but I recall reading more posts started on this forum by collectors complaining about dealers leaving early than by dealers complaining about low attendance. Just sayin'.
But- "both sides", okay? So- now what? For many dealers, the solution to the problem of low attendance is to leave early, and they just do it. What is your solution for the problem of dealers leaving early?
As a member of the forum for only 7 years there may have been threads/discussions on this that you missed. Just sayin' Laura has in the past had much to say on the subject of coin shows dying and low public attendance. I never said I have the solution, only that I dislike the current situation. Ultimately I'm not sure that anything can be done, as you see in this thread dealers have circled the wagons and are pushing back against any infringement on what they feel is their "right". Only promotors have the ability to install penalties or fines for leaving early. But there is little incentive for promotors (most of whom are dealers themselves) to do anything. Remember the dealers are the promoter's customers not the public.
@coinbuf said:
As a member of the forum for only 7 years there may have been threads/discussions on this that you missed.
I joined the forum in the late 1990's, sometime in the early 2000's (2001, I think) a board software migration resulted in everybody's join date being revised to that date. Sometime in 2018, the internet gods waved their magic wands, preventing me from accessing my account so I abandoned it and created this one. So- I've been here as long as you, it would appear and I have no doubt I have missed some discussions over that time. FWIW, of course.
@coinbuf said:
Laura has in the past had much to say on the subject of coin shows dying and low public attendance.
Yes, she has. I think I noted in my prior post that that complaints weren't restricted to collectors only.
@coinbuf said:
I never said I have the solution, only that I dislike the current situation.
I did not mean to imply that you had one and to be fair, you're under no obligation to provide one. As has been mentioned, dealers don't like the current situation either but they seem to have found a solution that works for them, after a fashion.
@coinbuf said:
Ultimately I'm not sure that anything can be done, as you see in this thread dealers have circled the wagons and are pushing back against any infringement on what they feel is their "right".
Maybe aside from those with planes to catch, I have a hard time believing there could be many dealers out there who would chase buyers away from their tables so they could leave early. Dealers attend shows to buy and sell coins and are basically saying that if they're not doing business, they're going to do something other than just sit there that's more productive. Since being productive is how you put food on the table, that doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
@coinbuf said:
Only promotors have the ability to install penalties or fines for leaving early.
That's true. Reminds me of the internet meme: "The beatings will continue until morale improves".
@coinbuf said:
But there is little incentive for promotors (most of whom are dealers themselves) to do anything. Remember the dealers are the promoter's customers not the public.
I imagine most of them think it's better to have 100 dealers attend even if 50 of them leave early than just the 50 that stay for the whole show. As a buyer, I'd agree. And as before, YMMV.
@MasonG said:
YMMV, but I recall reading more posts started on this forum by collectors complaining about dealers leaving early than by dealers complaining about low attendance. Just sayin'.
But- "both sides", okay? So- now what? For many dealers, the solution to the problem of low attendance is to leave early, and they just do it. What is your solution for the problem of dealers leaving early?
As a member of the forum for only 7 years there may have been threads/discussions on this that you missed. Just sayin' Laura has in the past had much to say on the subject of coin shows dying and low public attendance.
Laura is still actively posting on the CAC forum. She is often on the defense because her (IMO) very misplaced viewpoints put her at odds with nearly everyone else in the hobby and are (again IMO) totally illogical. Probably not the best camp to join. Just sayin.
Ultimately I'm not sure that anything can be done, as you see in this thread dealers have circled the wagons and are pushing back against any infringement on what they feel is their "right".
The great majority of people who have responded in this post in disagreement with you are not dealers. And it's odd to me that you would put "right" in quotes. That seemingly suggests that you don't think the dealers have a right to leave and I guess should be chained to their tables? Is it not their right to come and go as they please, whether you like it or not or whether it's good or bad for the hobby?
@jmlanzaf said:
But if you never have more then one customer on a Saturday, how many businesses will continue to have Saturdays hours? Staying open when there are no customers is also not a good business plan.
Back to apples and oranges.
No. It was a direct response to YOUR suggestion that the proper comparison was to a business with posted hours. It is apples to apples that a business will adjust its hours when staying open isn't profitable.
My apologies for reading your exact words and using the exact same metaphor.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
It is apples to apples that a business will adjust its hours when staying open isn't profitable.
Apologies for continuing to beat the dead horse (I fear that ship has long sailed, though), but permit me an observation from flyover country...
The local annual coin show runs Friday/Saturday (until 5PM) and I usually hang out there for the afternoon on Saturday, seeing as how I don't really have a life. What I have noticed over the years is that when the bourse is pretty much empty after noon/1PM, dealers start to get antsy and begin packing up. If, on the other hand, there are lots of people milling about the bourse floor, the dealers tend to stay put until such time that it starts to empty out. At that point, the "antsy" thing rears its head.
I believe most dealers drive to the show, so there are no hard deadlines for leaving like there would be for anyone who has a plane ticket. So, to summarize: "Lots of customers = dealers stay" while "Dearth of customers = dealers leave".
The negativity, objective or not, is not good in the open. Do I need to say that a reader with respect for the authorities who post here, without thought of the weight of those opinions, may consider not going to a show?
Hey everyone! There’s been a lot of curiosity about why dealers sometimes leave shows a bit early, and I wanted to share some insight both as a dealer and as someone who’s promoted these events.
First off, as we discussed, there are logistical reasons—long drives, next events, and inventory considerations. But let’s also talk about the bigger picture. The truth is, there’s a huge difference in turnout between what we see online and what we see at physical shows. We’ve got hundreds of thousands of collectors active on the internet, yet even the biggest shows often only draw a few thousand people. That’s a tiny fraction of the potential audience.
It’s kind of wild when you think about it—other events like sporting events or Comic-Con can bring in tens of thousands of fans who are happy to pay significant ticket prices. Meanwhile, coin collectors sometimes balk at a $5 or $10 admission fee. That shows we have a lot of room to grow in terms of promotion and really turning our shows into must-attend events.
So part of the equation is not just about dealers leaving early—it’s about making the shows so vibrant and well-attended that everyone wants to stay till the very end. Let’s keep working on that together!
@jmlanzaf said:
But if you never have more then one customer on a Saturday, how many businesses will continue to have Saturdays hours? Staying open when there are no customers is also not a good business plan.
Back to apples and oranges.
No. It was a direct response to YOUR suggestion that the proper comparison was to a business with posted hours. It is apples to apples that a business will adjust its hours when staying open isn't profitable.
My apologies for reading your exact words and using the exact same metaphor.
No you left out part of what I said, thus making it an apples to oranges issue again.
Comments
That's selfish! 😁 What about my needs?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Sometimes, early departures aren’t even about best business interests - they can also be due to family matters/responsibilities which are of more importance than business.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There is a large venue in my area that hosts many hobby related shows. A dealer at an antique fire arm show told me that vendors are fined by the venue if they leave early.
Coin shows have tried that. They also bumped the early leavers to the back of the table assignment lists.
It doesn't work.
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
This is slightly different but I rent office space for my business which deals with the public. I set my hours and the days the business is open. The business used to be open on Saturday but that turned out not to be cost or time effective. If things come up in life ie. family, trips, whatever, my office may be closed on days that it’s normally open. It’s my business and I’ll do whatever I so desire. If someone doesn’t like how I run my business they’re free to go elsewhere. I have no idea why a dealer has to stick around on a Saturday or Sunday. They’re paying for space at a show and they should be free to utilize the space however they choose to.
Amen. I understand those who are disappointed with dealer absences, but they’re not entitled to dictate how one runs their business.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Gotta give you a star for the hard work.
Just think how long it would be if you double-spaced it.
Pete
Fining your customers when they don't do what you want? If coin dealers tried that, how do you think it would go?
Presumably, the potential fines are included in the contract terms for the tables and dealers are free not to participate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This reminds me of a "new age" (their term) middle aged couple that would arrive at 3pm, closing time, on Saturday at the show I promoted in New Market, Maryland. They would come in and complain because all the dealers were packing up or had left. Finally, I asked why they continued to show up after I had explained numerous times dealers started packing at 1pm on Saturday because business died after 1pm. I asked why they did not show up on Friday or earlier on Saturday. Their response was that they did not feel like getting out of bed until later in the afternoons.
...
Regardless of how long promoters keep a show open or how long dealers stay, you are going to have people who do not like the schedule. My advice from promoting shows for 40+ years is to adjust YOUR schedule so you can make it whenever the dealers are there. Do not expect dealers to adjust their schedule to accommodate you 'just in case you show up.' And, yes, I have been a promoter and dealer both.
I used to assist a dealer at shows. One of them had a contract prohibiting early leaving. When he was ready to go, he packed up almost everything and left me behind, sitting there with 12 display cases with about a dozen coins total in them for the next few hours. The booth was staffed, with inventory for sale, just as the contract specified. Next show, I asked him what time he was leaving and how much longer he wanted me to stay and he said "Yeah- no. I talked to the promoter and we're not doing that anymore." And that was that.
edited to add... To be clear, when he said "We're not doing that anymore", he meant that he wasn't going to play that game and would be leaving when he chose to.
I know quite a few dealers who used to (and/or currently) do that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No
Yes.
Here the argument should make a connection between contacted workers on a job and the variety of amateurs, semi-pro, and professional sellers at a weekend market. But it reiterates an earlier point in the thread. And introduces a favorite topic, “I”, next.
Whine coda—
That’s a bitter view.
Back to apples and oranges.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
And it's not even true. Most dealers would love to have more interaction with buyers but you can't do that when the buyers aren't there. And, towards the end of the show, they typically aren't.
I know- chicken/egg. But that's the reality of it. I'm sure everybody would be happy to learn of a solution to the problem but until one is discovered, the rational thing to do is deal with the world as it is, not as you wish it was.
Even if you, I and most business owners would say that’s not a good business plan, the person who pays rent for a retail space is free to conduct his business that way. The same goes for dealers who rent tables at shows, unless there are restrictions in the contract with the show promoter.
I empathize with both collectors who attend the shows, as well as dealers who rent tables. And unfortunately, I’m not aware of any solutions that would make both groups happy.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That example is hyperbolic. Make a point without extremes.
(But, that one customer buys the whole inventory and threw in a bird dog.)
I know dark when I read dark.
When I was in Pennsylvania, I set up at a local show. I had a good customer come in rather late and he asked me how long I would be there. I said about an hour and a half. He said, OK, I will check the rest of the tables and I will stop at your table last. I was kind of wondering if I gave the wrong answer, but when he came back he spent several thousand dollars. So I did give him the right answer.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I never said that a business owner cannot do that, only that it would not be smart to advertise being open when you are not. Naturally unless show promoters started to ban/penalize leaving early, dealers will do as they please. And I have no expectation that promoters would penalize dealers that pack out early, after all most promoters are dealers. I'm also not saying that penalizing those who leave early is a solution to this. But I tire of dealers that complain about low attendance and low public engagement while simultaneously leaving before the show ends.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
No, he took my reply out of context from what I replied to and changed the variables, thus did not make any point.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
YMMV, but I recall reading more posts started on this forum by collectors complaining about dealers leaving early than by dealers complaining about low attendance. Just sayin'.
But- "both sides", okay? So- now what? For many dealers, the solution to the problem of low attendance is to leave early, and they just do it. What is your solution for the problem of dealers leaving early?
True, you never said business owners couldn’t do that and I didn’t mean to imply that you did.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have a friend who is a Seventh Day Adventist. He leaves shows Friday and doesn't show up on Saturdays. If I were still Shomer Shabbos, the same would be for me. He generally shares with another dealer at big shows, but us also always back in the Economy section. So there is no way of penalizing his absence other than disallowing futures tables entirely.
OTOH, one very high end dealer used to show up and leave after doing wholesale business and having a proxy just throw a coin or two in the case and sit there for a day or two in order to not lose the spot in the next show for vacancy. Technically, they played by the rules, but we all know they simply abandoned the show very early for their own (every show) reasons.
Perhaps in the show announcement of days/hours it could state a "warning" for Saturday/Sunday hours. Please be aware,the full compliment of dealers may not be in attendance for these days. Allows dealers to leave as they please,pre warns potential visitors so as not to have high expectations and thereby may be disappointed upon arrival.
Why advertise a show with table numbers if most will be empty for those 2 days.
Or limit your hunts to eBay etc. Their tables are usually stocked and are there even Saturday and Sunday.
As a member of the forum for only 7 years there may have been threads/discussions on this that you missed. Just sayin' Laura has in the past had much to say on the subject of coin shows dying and low public attendance. I never said I have the solution, only that I dislike the current situation. Ultimately I'm not sure that anything can be done, as you see in this thread dealers have circled the wagons and are pushing back against any infringement on what they feel is their "right". Only promotors have the ability to install penalties or fines for leaving early. But there is little incentive for promotors (most of whom are dealers themselves) to do anything. Remember the dealers are the promoter's customers not the public.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I joined the forum in the late 1990's, sometime in the early 2000's (2001, I think) a board software migration resulted in everybody's join date being revised to that date. Sometime in 2018, the internet gods waved their magic wands, preventing me from accessing my account so I abandoned it and created this one. So- I've been here as long as you, it would appear and I have no doubt I have missed some discussions over that time. FWIW, of course.
Yes, she has. I think I noted in my prior post that that complaints weren't restricted to collectors only.
I did not mean to imply that you had one and to be fair, you're under no obligation to provide one. As has been mentioned, dealers don't like the current situation either but they seem to have found a solution that works for them, after a fashion.
Maybe aside from those with planes to catch, I have a hard time believing there could be many dealers out there who would chase buyers away from their tables so they could leave early. Dealers attend shows to buy and sell coins and are basically saying that if they're not doing business, they're going to do something other than just sit there that's more productive. Since being productive is how you put food on the table, that doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
That's true. Reminds me of the internet meme: "The beatings will continue until morale improves".
I imagine most of them think it's better to have 100 dealers attend even if 50 of them leave early than just the 50 that stay for the whole show. As a buyer, I'd agree. And as before, YMMV.
To add to @MasonG 's very nice response I will only clarify a few points.
Laura is still actively posting on the CAC forum. She is often on the defense because her (IMO) very misplaced viewpoints put her at odds with nearly everyone else in the hobby and are (again IMO) totally illogical. Probably not the best camp to join. Just sayin.
The great majority of people who have responded in this post in disagreement with you are not dealers. And it's odd to me that you would put "right" in quotes. That seemingly suggests that you don't think the dealers have a right to leave and I guess should be chained to their tables? Is it not their right to come and go as they please, whether you like it or not or whether it's good or bad for the hobby?
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
No. It was a direct response to YOUR suggestion that the proper comparison was to a business with posted hours. It is apples to apples that a business will adjust its hours when staying open isn't profitable.
My apologies for reading your exact words and using the exact same metaphor.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Apologies for continuing to beat the dead horse (I fear that ship has long sailed, though), but permit me an observation from flyover country...
The local annual coin show runs Friday/Saturday (until 5PM) and I usually hang out there for the afternoon on Saturday, seeing as how I don't really have a life. What I have noticed over the years is that when the bourse is pretty much empty after noon/1PM, dealers start to get antsy and begin packing up. If, on the other hand, there are lots of people milling about the bourse floor, the dealers tend to stay put until such time that it starts to empty out. At that point, the "antsy" thing rears its head.
I believe most dealers drive to the show, so there are no hard deadlines for leaving like there would be for anyone who has a plane ticket. So, to summarize: "Lots of customers = dealers stay" while "Dearth of customers = dealers leave".
Perhaps there's a lesson there?
The negativity, objective or not, is not good in the open. Do I need to say that a reader with respect for the authorities who post here, without thought of the weight of those opinions, may consider not going to a show?
Hey everyone! There’s been a lot of curiosity about why dealers sometimes leave shows a bit early, and I wanted to share some insight both as a dealer and as someone who’s promoted these events.
First off, as we discussed, there are logistical reasons—long drives, next events, and inventory considerations. But let’s also talk about the bigger picture. The truth is, there’s a huge difference in turnout between what we see online and what we see at physical shows. We’ve got hundreds of thousands of collectors active on the internet, yet even the biggest shows often only draw a few thousand people. That’s a tiny fraction of the potential audience.
It’s kind of wild when you think about it—other events like sporting events or Comic-Con can bring in tens of thousands of fans who are happy to pay significant ticket prices. Meanwhile, coin collectors sometimes balk at a $5 or $10 admission fee. That shows we have a lot of room to grow in terms of promotion and really turning our shows into must-attend events.
So part of the equation is not just about dealers leaving early—it’s about making the shows so vibrant and well-attended that everyone wants to stay till the very end. Let’s keep working on that together!
No you left out part of what I said, thus making it an apples to oranges issue again.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.