Would You Crack Out a Gold Bean to Make a Top Pop?
FlyingAl
Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭✭✭
All these threads on gold beans got me thinking.
Suppose you stumbled across a coin in a OGH CAC Gold beaned holder, say MS65. The coin happens to be a rather rare DDO, which has a top pop in MS66.
Crack, or keep in the old holder?
For the purposes of this experiment, let's assume I would not accept VSS as an option. We can also assume that the value of the coin in the variety holder (MS66 attributed) is greater than a standard MS66.
0
Comments
Easy one for me. No, I would not crack a Gold Beaned coin
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
VSS?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If I cared about the coin achieving top-pop status, I’d submit it under “Reconsideration” service with a minimum grade, rather than crack it out.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
As for the question, no, I would not crack out an OGH or fattie for an upgrade to a pop-top variety. However, when it came time to sell or offer the coin for sale I would absolutely ask/require its real value and not the value that might be associated with an incompletely labeled slab insert.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If I had a competitive registry set and the bonus points along with upgrade would bump me up a few places I would.
They put a sticker on the slab with the variety on it.
Difficult question to answer but gold beans get so much respect that I believe most variety collectors would be able to see it for what it is.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
I am into coins for the history. The old holder, the gold bean all mean more to me than a registry set Top Pop.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
A very easy answer for me, no I would not. I personally love collecting old holders and those with gold beans are quite literally gold.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I feel the same way, which is why I prefaced my comment with “If I cared about the coin achieving top-pop status…”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Variety Slabbing Service. I believe it's run by forum member messydesk and is primarily focused on Morgan VAMs.
https://varslab.com/vamslab.html
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
From a purely financial standpoint: it depends on the expected value of the coin in a top pop holder, the current market value with gold sticker, my perceived chances of obtaining the upgrade, and the value of the costs incurred (in fees and time).
From a collector standpoint: hell no, I love the OGH + gold CAC combo.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I dont care about the old holder and gold cac.
I dont care about the registry points either.
So i guess I wouldn't crack it, but only out of sheer laziness.
res ipsa loquitur
The coin speaks for itself.
(Leave it alone.)
Perhaps nummus ipsa loquitur?
One day I might try to monetize my collection. Until then I don’t screw around with cracking out, resubmitting, crossing, stickering, etc., etc. The coin’s the thing, the only thing. For now.
I have cracked a few green beans because they were a cherry picked variety and then sent them to get re beaned after I got the variety designation on the label. For me the variety is whats important - not the bean. So I don't think a gold bean would stop me from doing the same since wouldn't they just put another gold bean on the slab like they have been doing with the others???
WS
Yes - would submit for higher grade. But specify minimum grade so not cracked unless it makes higher grade. Want the higher grade, max MV.
Whatever will maximize value.
I have a soft spot for varieties, so that would be a cool honor.
Likely yes, if the variety or VAM has some clout.
Run of the mill variety with little demand? Back to maximize the value.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Whatever maximizes enjoyment (not financial).
An older, no-line NGC slab and/or a PCGS early holder with a gold CAC makes for a better presentation than a new slab with no CAC gold, even if the insert states a higher grade.
Once you move forward with the 'upgrade' there is no going back. The holder and sticker are gone and that is one less head-turning-at-a-show experience that is lost for ever.
I have a proof coin with only five known. It has a gold sticker and graded 64. If it upgrades it is the only 65. I haven’t given it a lot of thought whether I should try for an upgrade.
I wonder if CAC quits stickering will it be completely stopped? What if you want to reholder an existing slab due to scratches, etc.? I guess I could ask CAC. Should one try to get everything stickered now? Thanks, for thoughts.
I suggest you create a new thread to solicit answers.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I like your reply.
I was coming back to edit my initial response.
The financial gain would have to be pretty significant, for me to " maximize the value."
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
And this Forum title question says exactly what is wrong about this “ hobby “.
It’s all about the plastic and thus it’s all about increasing the market value of a coin ARTIFICIALLY !
What a shame.
I believe in this case, the value of the gold sticker far exceeds that of the coin itself judging by the replies.
If people want pay or bid big money for the gold sticker well that’s them.
Not a payer, bidder above the grade on the holder. For all I know it could have failed to grade higher in submission. Others don’t agree it’s a higher grade.
My answer ranges from absolutely yes to complete a Hall of Fame PCGS set to absolutely not if it was a 1909 rattler cent.
If 1) I didn’t know how to grade and 2) wasn’t aware of the market for gold-sticker coins, I’d do the same as you. Therefore, I’d do things very differently than you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Even for making a Top Pop I would not crack an OGH/CAC Gold Bean Coin.
Period.
I would just make note of it to potential buyers and when it comes time to part with it.
You'll get more for it being in an old holder with a Gold Bean than a higher grade with or without even a Green Bean IMO.
IIRC, even JA stated he would not consider or recommend cracking out a gold bean. I’m aware of a well known dealer who cracked the only gold stickered 1923-S WLH and only upgraded from a 63+ to a 64. I believe he lost several thousand dollars compared to what the gold stickered coin would have brought.
Tim
While in general I think the gold sticker has more demand, therefore helping the price, its highly dependent on what the coin is. If its a $20 Saint that becomes top pop for example, wealthy registry players would likely bid it up in a new holder with the top pop grade well beyond what the gold sticker would fetch.
The market perception of the gold bean seems to be 1-2 grades higher. You can see many many auction results to prove this theory (a significant percentage being 2 grades higher).
My vote is leave it alone.
What if you hold a gold stickered coin for a long time but then it goes bad in the holder from tarnish, spots, reaction to the atmosphere?
Crack out no guarantee to upgrade (top pop). I’d stick with the gold bean.
You’re screwed…what else ?
Me, too…Especially, if in a vintage slab!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Me to
There seems to be a focus on the OGH/bean combo meaning that the coin has more "history".
Playing devil's advocate here: If it was truly about the coin, wouldn't we want it to be properly identified as a rare variety, rather than keep it in a holder that doesn't properly describe the coin?
If it was truly about the coin then it wouldn't need certification at all.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
That still sounds like it’s about the slab, not the coin.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Ultimately it's always about the slab, because we all know the slab makes the coin in today's market and collector world. The question is - which slab is the proper one?
No. It is all about the stability of the coin in the older slab.
Spot on @oreville
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
There was a gold beaned AU 55 of a VERY difficult date within a type/series I know well that was cracked out years ago and made into a green beaned AU 58. The owner of the coin was after the (Everyman) registry points.
I think it cut the value of the coin by around 25-30%…..and I think that gap will continue to widen as more time passes.
The owner may be entirely pleased with the 58 instead of the 55. To each their own. I would never crack a gold CACd coin under any circumstances though. At this point, like it or not, they are their own thing entirely.
I think you can get the gold bean back after you get the variety attribution. Cert number would stay the same. Maybe also on reconsideration. As long as the cert number and the grade remain the same. If it upgrades, all bets are off
Empty Nest Collection
I wouldn't, because another might be discovered and them you are left without anything special.
I came across an example where a NGC AU55 Gold CAC was crossed to PCGS AU58+ (the coin has very nice toning with a lot of die clashes) while researching my recent purchase.
