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Henning Nickel question

oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

A Henning Nickel has been on my want list for years. I noticed a couple of ICG examples on line and some are graded, some are not.

Is a "not genuine" Henning Nickel not a real Henning?

oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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Comments

  • The_Dinosaur_ManThe_Dinosaur_Man Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A counterfeit counterfeit?

    Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
    Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you.
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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Every nickel made by Henning is a "counterfeit," and thus by definition "not Genuine."

    Therefore, it IS a Henning nickel.

    Does that help?

    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," due out late 2025.
  • JBKJBK Posts: 16,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like one didn't get a numerical grade, so it just says "not genuine", sort of like a "genuine" label on a coin that didn't straight grade.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Every nickel made by Henning is a "counterfeit," and thus by definition "not Genuine."

    Therefore, it IS a Henning nickel.

    Does that help?

    No. Look at the three ICG slabs in the OP. The far right indicates "NOT GENUINE COUNTERFEIT", whereas the othe two indicate a grade and COUNTERFEIT.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • Alpha2814Alpha2814 Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Every nickel made by Henning is a "counterfeit," and thus by definition "not Genuine."

    Therefore, it IS a Henning nickel.

    Omega coins are also "counterfeit", and thus "not genuine", but they are not Henning.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2025 5:14PM

    @oih82w8 said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    Every nickel made by Henning is a "counterfeit," and thus by definition "not Genuine."

    Therefore, it IS a Henning nickel.

    Does that help?

    No. Look at the three ICG slabs in the OP. The far right indicates "NOT GENUINE COUNTERFEIT", whereas the othe two indicate a grade and COUNTERFEIT.

    This is the one on the far right. I took a screenshot off eBay. It sure looks like a genuine Henning from here. Maybe it's just an inconsistent labeling issue.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,546 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those are all genuine Henning nickels. As mentioned already, all are counterfeit, but they are genuine Hennings.

  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @oih82w8 said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    Every nickel made by Henning is a "counterfeit," and thus by definition "not Genuine."

    Therefore, it IS a Henning nickel.

    Does that help?

    No. Look at the three ICG slabs in the OP. The far right indicates "NOT GENUINE COUNTERFEIT", whereas the othe two indicate a grade and COUNTERFEIT.

    This is the one on the far right. I took a screenshot off eBay. It sure looks like a genuine Henning from here. Maybe it's just an inconsistent labeling issue.

    All three of them are labeled "Henning" issue at the bottom of the insert, so I don't know why anyone is questioning the attribution. The insert color is different on the far right, I would simply assume it was holdered at a point in time where ICG was not assigning numerical grades to counterfeits.

    Sean Reynolds

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @seanq said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @oih82w8 said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    Every nickel made by Henning is a "counterfeit," and thus by definition "not Genuine."

    Therefore, it IS a Henning nickel.

    Does that help?

    No. Look at the three ICG slabs in the OP. The far right indicates "NOT GENUINE COUNTERFEIT", whereas the othe two indicate a grade and COUNTERFEIT.

    This is the one on the far right. I took a screenshot off eBay. It sure looks like a genuine Henning from here. Maybe it's just an inconsistent labeling issue.

    All three of them are labeled "Henning" issue at the bottom of the insert, so I don't know why anyone is questioning the attribution. The insert color is different on the far right, I would simply assume it was holdered at a point in time where ICG was not assigning numerical grades to counterfeits.

    Sean Reynolds

    True. I was just questioning why the labels weren't consistent. Like you say, maybe it was an ICG generational slab thing.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 10,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A "Red Henning' (Herring) amongst the discussion 😀

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,763 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Round and round we go.....

  • LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is one I have from long ago purchased from my local B&M shop. (Still in the cardboard flip from then too)
    Mine doesn't show the loop R in Pluribus or have a die crack over Monticello.
    Do all of them have those diagnostics or is this still a "good" Counterfeit?


  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2025 6:11AM

    @LeeBone

    I was doing some digging around and found this book with a different reverse die, no loop on R apparently for 1944.

    The big pup is the missing mintmark.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fascinating

    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," due out late 2025.
  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LeeBone said:
    Here is one I have from long ago purchased from my local B&M shop. (Still in the cardboard flip from then too)
    Mine doesn't show the loop R in Pluribus or have a die crack over Monticello.
    Do all of them have those diagnostics or is this still a "good" Counterfeit?


    Am I the only one seeing a P here?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR At least the top of the P?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    @OAKSTAR At least the top of the P?

    If the top of the P is there, the entire P is there and it's not a Henning. Unless there are other Henning die markers I'm missing.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭✭

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2025 3:02PM

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @oih82w8 said:
    @OAKSTAR At least the top of the P?

    If the top of the P is there, the entire P is there and it's not a Henning. Unless there are other Henning die markers I'm missing.

    How do we break the news to @LeeBone? I'm not going to tell he, you tell him!

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • JBKJBK Posts: 16,688 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2025 2:12PM

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @oih82w8 said:
    @OAKSTAR At least the top of the P?

    If the top of the P is there, the entire P is there and it's not a Henning. Unless there are other Henning die markers I'm missing.

    The color is wrong for a war nickel, so that supports Henning. And l am not seeing a P. :)

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @LeeBone said:
    Here is one I have from long ago purchased from my local B&M shop. (Still in the cardboard flip from then too)
    Mine doesn't show the loop R in Pluribus or have a die crack over Monticello.
    Do all of them have those diagnostics or is this still a "good" Counterfeit?

    .

    That is a legitimate 1944 no-"P" Henning nickel.
    And it is a higher grade than most. The dies that struck these were pretty crude and rough.
    The piece pictured above, based entirely on the state of preservation from when it was struck, is an AU50 grade in my opinion.

    Here is what a mint-state 1944 Henning looks like (note the luster is not worn off anywhere, even though the details are mushy - and the slide marks on the edge from punching the blank are present and not worn):

    Just to clarify Dan. So you do not see a P here, correct?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @oih82w8 said:
    @OAKSTAR At least the top of the P?

    If the top of the P is there, the entire P is there and it's not a Henning. Unless there are other Henning die markers I'm missing.

    The color is wrong for a war nickel, so that supports Henning. And l not seeing a P. :)

    Okay, that works for me. I'm probably seeing Pareidolia.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Feedback from ICG:

    Hi Tom!

    The bolder font is one of our older coins. They weren't assigned a grade as the submitter didn't request a grade. Let me know if you have any other questions.

    Miya Jones
    ICG Customer Service

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • JBKJBK Posts: 16,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Next question: do they grade Hennings based on regular nickel grades or do they account for the inherently weak details?

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    Next question: do they grade Hennings based on regular nickel grades or do they account for the inherently weak details?

    Great question! Let me introduce you to my friend... Miya this is @JBK, @JBK this is Miya.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 10,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    @LeeBone

    I was doing some digging around and found this book with a different reverse die, no loop on R apparently for 1944.

    The big pup is the missing mintmark.

    Describes my 44 example.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 10,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wonder if there is a guestimate on each years "mintage".

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    Wonder if there is a guestimate on each years "mintage".

    Plus, does ICG have a pop report? I don't know, I should check.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't see any evidence of a removed mint mark, though those are not the best pictures in the world.
    FWIW, the piece looks like Copper-nickel, but again this is based upon a picture that could be better.
    I have never handled a Henning nickel that does not have the hole in the R. That does not mean that they do not exist.

    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," due out late 2025.
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    I don't see any evidence of a removed mint mark, though those are not the best pictures in the world.
    FWIW, the piece looks like Copper-nickel, but again this is based upon a picture that could be better.
    I have never handled a Henning nickel that does not have the hole in the R. That does not mean that they do not exist.

    .

    The mint-state Henning that I posted earlier does not have the looped "R" or the die crack.

    .

    Moonlight Mint
  • LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @oih82w8 said:
    @OAKSTAR At least the top of the P?

    If the top of the P is there, the entire P is there and it's not a Henning. Unless there are other Henning die markers I'm missing.

    How do we break the news to @LeeBone? I'm not going to tell he, you tell him!

    As it’s been pointed out here this is a real Henning Nickel.
    I would send it to get authenticated/certified/whatever that it’s a real fake but don’t feel the need.
    It’s been resting in its flip for almost 34years and I believe it doesn’t want to be disturbed. Don’t plan on selling, just was adding to the thread.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2025 6:40AM

    @LeeBone said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @oih82w8 said:
    @OAKSTAR At least the top of the P?

    If the top of the P is there, the entire P is there and it's not a Henning. Unless there are other Henning die markers I'm missing.

    How do we break the news to @LeeBone? I'm not going to tell he, you tell him!

    As it’s been pointed out here this is a real Henning Nickel.
    I would send it to get authenticated/certified/whatever that it’s a real fake but don’t feel the need.
    It’s been resting in its flip for almost 34years and I believe it doesn’t want to be disturbed. Don’t plan on selling, just was adding to the thread.

    You are most likely correct. It sure does look like a Henning. The image of a P I'm seeing is most likely my Pareidolia.

    Why don't you take a few more close-up images above Monticello with different light and angles views.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 10,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    I don't see any evidence of a removed mint mark, though those are not the best pictures in the world.
    FWIW, the piece looks like Copper-nickel, but again this is based upon a picture that could be better.
    I have never handled a Henning nickel that does not have the hole in the R. That does not mean that they do not exist.

    .

    The mint-state Henning that I posted earlier does not have the looped "R" or the die crack.

    .

    Are these types more rare than the looped R/die crack examples?

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • jerseybenjerseyben Posts: 120 ✭✭✭

    Look at the raised dot just above the left side of Monticello (the top of the building itself). That is the die marker for these. I own one myself. Interestingly ICG decided NOT to slab it. It has been confirmed as a Henning by an expert in contemporary counterfeits (via the aforementioned die marker).

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:

    @dcarr said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    I don't see any evidence of a removed mint mark, though those are not the best pictures in the world.
    FWIW, the piece looks like Copper-nickel, but again this is based upon a picture that could be better.
    I have never handled a Henning nickel that does not have the hole in the R. That does not mean that they do not exist.

    .

    The mint-state Henning that I posted earlier does not have the looped "R" or the die crack.

    .

    Are these types more rare than the looped R/die crack examples?

    As I said, I have never seen one.
    I have been familiar with 1944 "No Mint Mark" nickels for over 50 years.

    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," due out late 2025.
  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 4,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:

    @dcarr said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    I don't see any evidence of a removed mint mark, though those are not the best pictures in the world.
    FWIW, the piece looks like Copper-nickel, but again this is based upon a picture that could be better.
    I have never handled a Henning nickel that does not have the hole in the R. That does not mean that they do not exist.

    .

    The mint-state Henning that I posted earlier does not have the looped "R" or the die crack.

    .

    Are these types more rare than the looped R/die crack examples?

    As I said, I have never seen one.
    I have been familiar with 1944 "No Mint Mark" nickels for over 50 years.

    Of the seven 1944's I currently own, three have the looped R, four do not.

    http://www.SmallDollars.com
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 10,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    May have to send in my example to ICG or attend a large show and have some dealers offer their opinions.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    May have to send in my example to ICG or attend a large show and have some dealers offer their opinions.

    Forget it, show dealers wouldn't have a clue. Post it here or start a new thread for opinions.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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