Honus dominated his era as good or better than Ruth especially when you account for all I said above too.
Wagner is the forgotten GOAT candidate. Ruth was undoubtedly a better hitter, but not by so much as nearly everyone thinks. But Wagner was, by all accounts both contemporary and modern, an absolutely phenomenal shortstop. By Bill James' reckoning, Wagner's 1908 season was the greatest season by any player ever. Wagner's adjusted batting runs (linear weights method) that year was 66; second place was 33. Wagner did dominate the game at a level only Ruth can match.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
Honus dominated his era as good or better than Ruth especially when you account for all I said above too.
Wagner is the forgotten GOAT candidate. Ruth was undoubtedly a better hitter, but not by so much as nearly everyone thinks. But Wagner was, by all accounts both contemporary and modern, an absolutely phenomenal shortstop. By Bill James' reckoning, Wagner's 1908 season was the greatest season by any player ever. Wagner's adjusted batting runs (linear weights method) that year was 66; second place was 33. Wagner did dominate the game at a level only Ruth can match.
If you had to defend the statement that Ruth was undoubtedly a better hitter than Wagner can you share how you would construct the argument?
Honus dominated his era as good or better than Ruth especially when you account for all I said above too.
Wagner is the forgotten GOAT candidate. Ruth was undoubtedly a better hitter, but not by so much as nearly everyone thinks. But Wagner was, by all accounts both contemporary and modern, an absolutely phenomenal shortstop. By Bill James' reckoning, Wagner's 1908 season was the greatest season by any player ever. Wagner's adjusted batting runs (linear weights method) that year was 66; second place was 33. Wagner did dominate the game at a level only Ruth can match.
John McGraw called Wagner the best player he ever saw. The old timers in Ruth's time often echoed those same sentiments that Wagner was better than Ruth and played the game it was supposed to be played.
@firstbase23 said:
I would say this. Shohei Ohtani is a much better athlete than Ruth. If you were transport him to that time I believe he would put up better numbers than Ruth. I also believe if you transported Ruth to this time that he would a shell of himself. That being said nobody has dominated their time like Ruth and nobody ever will again.
Matt
With a 34 oz bat and hitting pure white baseballs, Ruth might also hit 85-100 HR a year.
That is the definition of silly. You didn't even say he could hit 100 one year. You said "100 A year" as per meaning on yearly basis.
Per your logic, the contemporaries of Ruth would experience the same 'benefits' as Ruth playing today. Lets for a minute forget all the MUCH harder aspects Ruth would also face in the opposite direction, and just give you the 'benefits' of your logic.
Here is what Ruth's contemporaries would then hit today when you think Ruth's 60 would be 100 today:
Foxx would hit 97 home runs
Greenberg would hit 97 home runs
Hack Wilson 93
Gehrig 82
Chuck Klein 72
Hornsby 70
Ott 70
Cy Williams 68
Ken Williams 65
Tillie Walker 61.7
So it looks like Aaron Judge would be in a battle with Tillie Walker for a battle for the 11th best Home Run season for a hitter of the last 20 years. I guess it would depend if the wind was blowing in or out on a few days if Tillie Walker would best Aaron Judge.
Forget Ohtani having a shot. He would be bested by all those players(and more) from the 20's and early 30's.
At least Ohtani's 55 Home Runs would best Don Hurst's 52. Go Don Hurst.
This is why it has become futile to even speculate what one would or not do today, because all sense of reason and logic just seems to get thrown out the window when making claims.
@Basebal21 said:
100 is never going to happen. They just stop pitching to you
100 not needed. You guys have Foxx hitting 97 and Tillie Walker besting Aaron Judge and Ohtani. At least Ohtani edges out Don Hurst.
I think you misunderstood me. I was agreeing with you. Those numbers arent going to happen. Bonds got walked like 180 times the year he hit 73. He could have maybe approached those numbers that year but they just stop letting you hit and walk you if youre that good.
Ruth would be elite today and maybe a few extra HRs especially since Yankee stadium is so lefty friendly. but no he wouldnt be hitting a 100 homeruns nor would the other guys be approaching those numbers
@firstbase23 said:
I would say this. Shohei Ohtani is a much better athlete than Ruth. If you were transport him to that time I believe he would put up better numbers than Ruth. I also believe if you transported Ruth to this time that he would a shell of himself. That being said nobody has dominated their time like Ruth and nobody ever will again.
Matt
With a 34 oz bat and hitting pure white baseballs, Ruth might also hit 85-100 HR a year.
That is the definition of silly. You didn't even say he could hit 100 one year. You said "100 A year" as per meaning on yearly basis.
Per your logic, the contemporaries of Ruth would experience the same 'benefits' as Ruth playing today. Lets for a minute forget all the MUCH harder aspects Ruth would also face in the opposite direction, and just give you the 'benefits' of your logic.
Here is what Ruth's contemporaries would then hit today when you think Ruth's 60 would be 100 today:
Foxx would hit 97 home runs
Greenberg would hit 97 home runs
Hack Wilson 93
Gehrig 82
Chuck Klein 72
Hornsby 70
Ott 70
Cy Williams 68
Ken Williams 65
Tillie Walker 61.7
So it looks like Aaron Judge would be in a battle with Tillie Walker for a battle for the 11th best Home Run season for a hitter of the last 20 years. I guess it would depend if the wind was blowing in or out on a few days if Tillie Walker would best Aaron Judge.
Forget Ohtani having a shot. He would be bested by all those players(and more) from the 20's and early 30's.
At least Ohtani's 55 Home Runs would best Don Hurst's 52. Go Don Hurst.
This is why it has become futile to even speculate what one would or not do today, because all sense of reason and logic just seems to get thrown out the window when making claims.
MIGHT HIT.
The entire post is a joke. I don't think the time machine has been invented yet.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@firstbase23 said:
I would say this. Shohei Ohtani is a much better athlete than Ruth. If you were transport him to that time I believe he would put up better numbers than Ruth. I also believe if you transported Ruth to this time that he would a shell of himself. That being said nobody has dominated their time like Ruth and nobody ever will again.
Matt
With a 34 oz bat and hitting pure white baseballs, Ruth might also hit 85-100 HR a year.
That is the definition of silly. You didn't even say he could hit 100 one year. You said "100 A year" as per meaning on yearly basis.
Per your logic, the contemporaries of Ruth would experience the same 'benefits' as Ruth playing today. Lets for a minute forget all the MUCH harder aspects Ruth would also face in the opposite direction, and just give you the 'benefits' of your logic.
Here is what Ruth's contemporaries would then hit today when you think Ruth's 60 would be 100 today:
Foxx would hit 97 home runs
Greenberg would hit 97 home runs
Hack Wilson 93
Gehrig 82
Chuck Klein 72
Hornsby 70
Ott 70
Cy Williams 68
Ken Williams 65
Tillie Walker 61.7
So it looks like Aaron Judge would be in a battle with Tillie Walker for a battle for the 11th best Home Run season for a hitter of the last 20 years. I guess it would depend if the wind was blowing in or out on a few days if Tillie Walker would best Aaron Judge.
Forget Ohtani having a shot. He would be bested by all those players(and more) from the 20's and early 30's.
At least Ohtani's 55 Home Runs would best Don Hurst's 52. Go Don Hurst.
This is why it has become futile to even speculate what one would or not do today, because all sense of reason and logic just seems to get thrown out the window when making claims.
MIGHT HIT.
The entire post is a joke. I don't think the time machine has been invented yet.
Yeh, might hit....and the other guys might hit 97 each etc etc etc. Just pure silliness.
At least you led me to my next purchase...a 1910 Old Mill Tillie Walker, since your method his best single season home run total on par with Aaron Judge's. Maybe that method will catch on and Tillie Walker RC's will catch fire.
@Basebal21 said:
100 is never going to happen. They just stop pitching to you
100 not needed. You guys have Foxx hitting 97 and Tillie Walker besting Aaron Judge and Ohtani. At least Ohtani edges out Don Hurst.
I think you misunderstood me. I was agreeing with you. Those numbers arent going to happen. Bonds got walked like 180 times the year he hit 73. He could have maybe approached those numbers that year but they just stop letting you hit and walk you if youre that good.
Ruth would be elite today and maybe a few extra HRs especially since Yankee stadium is so lefty friendly. but no he wouldnt be hitting a 100 homeruns nor would the other guys be approaching those numbers
I understand what you are saying...but haven't you mentioned Ruth out homering entire teams as a testament to how much better he was than any modern play who couldn't dominate their peers to that degree?
Did you know that in 1922 Tillie Walker out homered two entire teams in MLB? Judge and Ohtani never did that, right? Get what I am saying?
1910 Old Mill Tillie Walker! Walker more dominating in single season Home Runs than both Judge and Ohtani who could never do that incredible feat ...there are none for sale right now or I might hit someones 2x priced Buy it Now based on these terrific revelations on how much better all those guys were than modern guys
Oh, and catch this. Tillie only struck out 67 times while out homering entire teams! . You guys have to be salivating now! judge and Ohtani can't out homer teams and they strike out more than twice as much as that!
@firstbase23 said:
Never said it was reality. Ruth would never hit 85-100 Home runs now.
Matt
Yes he would. HRs are up with better equipment etc. The whole time argument goes both ways. If you brought Ruth forward in time with modern training and modern equipment hes still a monster.
The best most talented players will be the best most talented players of any generation as long as they have all the same training. equipment etc
this.
I have argued this ad nauseum over the years. Add modern nutrition/healthcare to modern training and equipment.
If Ruth had been born in 1995 instead of 1895, you had better believe he would have been stronger, healthier and probably taller.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
When Babe Ruth was still active and at his best there were a good amount of experts/historians/players from then who swore that both Cobb and Wagner were better baseball players than Ruth. They did not hit the Home Runs that Ruth did, but the game then was less about Home Runs(which is also the biggest reason why Ruth and a few other guys were able to out homer teams), and more about what Wagner and Cobb did.
Ruth certainly did change that thinking a good amount over time(although many fans now still don't think HR are as important as batting average, putting the ball in play etc..)
Hornsby also was just behind Ruth offensively when Hornsby and Ruth were both in their primes...and Hornsby did it while playing 2B. Hornsby hit over .400, out homered three teams, tied with another team, and was within three Home Runs of four other teams.
Ruth wasn't quite as far as ahead of the few other elites in that era as the out homering of team suggest. The out homering of teams was more a product of the type of hitters that dominated the league in that era more than anything else. Other guys did it too, including Hornsby. It really should say "Ruth and others out-homered teams that predominately employed Bret Butler/Jose Oquendo type hitters on their roster."
From 1921 to 1925 Hornsby had a .402 batting average and a 204 OPS+. Yes, he had a plus .400 average for a five year stretch.
Hornsby, Cobb, and Wagner also all struck out far far less than Ruth...another aspect that even fans today put big weight on...and back then there was tremendous weight on that aspect.
Ruth did change the strategy going forward, though some still think the Cobb/Wagner/ Hornsby way of hitting is more effective than the strikeout King of Ruth.
So if you are one of the fans that rail on today's guys for striking out and then annoint the strikeout king of his era as without question the all time best, then that doesn't quite make sense..
Hornsby was a second baseman and a RH hitter in a league where the parks favored LH more throughout.
I don't think people realize that league wide the park configurations back then favored LH hitters.
Honus dominated his era as good or better than Ruth especially when you account for all I said above too.
This video is Wagner in 1933 doing some hitting and fielding. Still has thunder in his bat and I absolutely love how he throws a little shade at the hitters in 1933 saying pitchers have harder work now due to pitches being banned. Wagner had it harder than Ruth(see above) and dominated the same or better.
Wagner was still pretty limber for a man of 59 years old!!!
Honus dominated his era as good or better than Ruth especially when you account for all I said above too.
This video is Wagner in 1933 doing some hitting and fielding. Still has thunder in his bat and I absolutely love how he throws a little shade at the hitters in 1933 saying pitchers have harder work now due to pitches being banned. Wagner had it harder than Ruth(see above) and dominated the same or better.
Wagner was still pretty limber for a man of 59 years old!!!
I agree. Still had the knack where to throw the double play ball too without looking.
@Basebal21 said:
100 is never going to happen. They just stop pitching to you
100 not needed. You guys have Foxx hitting 97 and Tillie Walker besting Aaron Judge and Ohtani. At least Ohtani edges out Don Hurst.
I think you misunderstood me. I was agreeing with you. Those numbers arent going to happen. Bonds got walked like 180 times the year he hit 73. He could have maybe approached those numbers that year but they just stop letting you hit and walk you if youre that good.
Ruth would be elite today and maybe a few extra HRs especially since Yankee stadium is so lefty friendly. but no he wouldnt be hitting a 100 homeruns nor would the other guys be approaching those numbers
I understand what you are saying...but haven't you mentioned Ruth out homering entire teams as a testament to how much better he was than any modern play who couldn't dominate their peers to that degree?
Did you know that in 1922 Tillie Walker out homered two entire teams in MLB? Judge and Ohtani never did that, right? Get what I am saying?
1910 Old Mill Tillie Walker! Walker more dominating in single season Home Runs than both Judge and Ohtani who could never do that incredible feat ...there are none for sale right now or I might hit someones 2x priced Buy it Now based on these terrific revelations on how much better all those guys were than modern guys
Oh, and catch this. Tillie only struck out 67 times while out homering entire teams! . You guys have to be salivating now! judge and Ohtani can't out homer teams and they strike out more than twice as much as that!
I did mention that but also that Othani could outshine him depending how his pitching career goes on. If he can avoid that third TJ which unfortunately I dont think he will and keeps pitching at this level as a two way player he could have that same separation as a two way player against his peers.
Im a strong believer that when talking about generational players both things are true that other than the 1800s players they would still be one of the best today and that if you sent todays guys back in time with what was available back then they wouldnt go and just make a joke out of the league either.
@bgr said:
if you sent today's players back in time to the 1800s every 1980s child knows what would happen.
Broken Arm, Broken Leg, Exhaustion, Cholera, Typhiod, Snakebite, Fever, Drowning, Measles, and everyone's favorite... don't forget to wear your brown pants... Dysentery.
I was born in 1964, and I think it was the golden age of vaccinations. We got shots for, smallpox, measles, mumps, tetanus, polio may have been oral or a shot, rubella and probably several more. Only side effects for me was a lifelong desire to receive live saving vaccines.
A couple weeks ago at Walgreens I got 3 jabs, tetanus, flu and pneumonia. Wanted to give me my 4th covid booster but I said next time 4 shots at once is a lot even for me.😁
It’s funny how so many people forget recent history. My mom went to school one day only to learn one of her friends contracted polio the day before. They were terrified because they didn’t know who would get it next. My uncle had a fear of getting lock jaw, which is what tetanus does.
I think his fear was a little extreme but he did grow up on a farm, lots of rusty nails just waiting to get stepped on. 😫😫
@bgr said:
if you sent today's players back in time to the 1800s every 1980s child knows what would happen.
Broken Arm, Broken Leg, Exhaustion, Cholera, Typhiod, Snakebite, Fever, Drowning, Measles, and everyone's favorite... don't forget to wear your brown pants... Dysentery.
I was born in 1964, and I think it was the golden age of vaccinations. We got shots for, smallpox, measles, mumps, tetanus, polio may have been oral or a shot, rubella and probably several more. Only side effects for me was a lifelong desire to receive live saving vaccines.
A couple weeks ago at Walgreens I got 3 jabs, tetanus, flu and pneumonia. Wanted to give me my 4th covid booster but I said next time 4 shots at once is a lot even for me.😁
It’s funny how so many people forget recent history. My mom went to school one day only to learn one of her friends contracted polio the day before. They were terrified because they didn’t know who would get it next. My uncle had a fear of getting lock jaw, which is what tetanus does.
I think his fear was a little extreme but he did grow up on a farm, lots of rusty nails just waiting to get stepped on. 😫😫
Darin - I don't know if you know this but stevek is a bit of an amateur vaccination expert. By his own accord he has done perhaps more research on the subject than just about anyone and there is a possibility of a career in the field of vaccineologicology in his future. Gambler, Sports Pundit, Philanthropist. It's for... the People.
@bgr said:
if you sent today's players back in time to the 1800s every 1980s child knows what would happen.
Broken Arm, Broken Leg, Exhaustion, Cholera, Typhiod, Snakebite, Fever, Drowning, Measles, and everyone's favorite... don't forget to wear your brown pants... Dysentery.
I was born in 1964, and I think it was the golden age of vaccinations. We got shots for, smallpox, measles, mumps, tetanus, polio may have been oral or a shot, rubella and probably several more. Only side effects for me was a lifelong desire to receive live saving vaccines.
A couple weeks ago at Walgreens I got 3 jabs, tetanus, flu and pneumonia. Wanted to give me my 4th covid booster but I said next time 4 shots at once is a lot even for me.😁
It’s funny how so many people forget recent history. My mom went to school one day only to learn one of her friends contracted polio the day before. They were terrified because they didn’t know who would get it next. My uncle had a fear of getting lock jaw, which is what tetanus does.
I think his fear was a little extreme but he did grow up on a farm, lots of rusty nails just waiting to get stepped on. 😫😫
Darin - I don't know if you know this but stevek is a bit of an amateur vaccination expert. By his own accord he has done perhaps more research on the subject than just about anyone and there is a possibility of a career in the field of vaccineologicology in his future. Gambler, Sports Pundit, Philanthropist. It's for... the People.
Stevek could talk Cliff Clavin into a catatonic stupor without taking a breath. That’s his one and only area of expertise.
I forgot shingles which was a two parter. One jab and then the second jab two or three months later.
@bgr said:
if you sent today's players back in time to the 1800s every 1980s child knows what would happen.
Broken Arm, Broken Leg, Exhaustion, Cholera, Typhiod, Snakebite, Fever, Drowning, Measles, and everyone's favorite... don't forget to wear your brown pants... Dysentery.
I was born in 1964, and I think it was the golden age of vaccinations. We got shots for, smallpox, measles, mumps, tetanus, polio may have been oral or a shot, rubella and probably several more. Only side effects for me was a lifelong desire to receive live saving vaccines.
A couple weeks ago at Walgreens I got 3 jabs, tetanus, flu and pneumonia. Wanted to give me my 4th covid booster but I said next time 4 shots at once is a lot even for me.😁
It’s funny how so many people forget recent history. My mom went to school one day only to learn one of her friends contracted polio the day before. They were terrified because they didn’t know who would get it next. My uncle had a fear of getting lock jaw, which is what tetanus does.
I think his fear was a little extreme but he did grow up on a farm, lots of rusty nails just waiting to get stepped on. 😫😫
Darin - I don't know if you know this but stevek is a bit of an amateur vaccination expert. By his own accord he has done perhaps more research on the subject than just about anyone and there is a possibility of a career in the field of vaccineologicology in his future. Gambler, Sports Pundit, Philanthropist. It's for... the People.
Stevek could talk Cliff Clavin into a catatonic stupor without taking a breath. That’s his one and only area of expertise.
I forgot shingles which was a two parter. One jab and then the second jab two or three months later.
@bgr said:
if you sent today's players back in time to the 1800s every 1980s child knows what would happen.
Broken Arm, Broken Leg, Exhaustion, Cholera, Typhiod, Snakebite, Fever, Drowning, Measles, and everyone's favorite... don't forget to wear your brown pants... Dysentery.
I was born in 1964, and I think it was the golden age of vaccinations. We got shots for, smallpox, measles, mumps, tetanus, polio may have been oral or a shot, rubella and probably several more. Only side effects for me was a lifelong desire to receive live saving vaccines.
A couple weeks ago at Walgreens I got 3 jabs, tetanus, flu and pneumonia. Wanted to give me my 4th covid booster but I said next time 4 shots at once is a lot even for me.😁
It’s funny how so many people forget recent history. My mom went to school one day only to learn one of her friends contracted polio the day before. They were terrified because they didn’t know who would get it next. My uncle had a fear of getting lock jaw, which is what tetanus does.
I think his fear was a little extreme but he did grow up on a farm, lots of rusty nails just waiting to get stepped on. 😫😫
Darin - I don't know if you know this but stevek is a bit of an amateur vaccination expert. By his own accord he has done perhaps more research on the subject than just about anyone and there is a possibility of a career in the field of vaccineologicology in his future. Gambler, Sports Pundit, Philanthropist. It's for... the People.
Thanks for the compliments.
I don't know a thing about you, but I thought your former avatar name "check your diaper" was very innovative. LOL
@firstbase23 said:
Never said it was reality. Ruth would never hit 85-100 Home runs now.
Matt
Yes he would. HRs are up with better equipment etc. The whole time argument goes both ways. If you brought Ruth forward in time with modern training and modern equipment hes still a monster.
The best most talented players will be the best most talented players of any generation as long as they have all the same training. equipment etc
this.
I have argued this ad nauseum over the years. Add modern nutrition/healthcare to modern training and equipment.
If Ruth had been born in 1995 instead of 1895, you had better believe he would have been stronger, healthier and probably taller.
He would definitely have to quit the hot dogs,boozing,and late night chick chasing.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@Basebal21 said:
100 is never going to happen. They just stop pitching to you
100 not needed. You guys have Foxx hitting 97 and Tillie Walker besting Aaron Judge and Ohtani. At least Ohtani edges out Don Hurst.
I think you misunderstood me. I was agreeing with you. Those numbers arent going to happen. Bonds got walked like 180 times the year he hit 73. He could have maybe approached those numbers that year but they just stop letting you hit and walk you if youre that good.
Ruth would be elite today and maybe a few extra HRs especially since Yankee stadium is so lefty friendly. but no he wouldnt be hitting a 100 homeruns nor would the other guys be approaching those numbers
I understand what you are saying...but haven't you mentioned Ruth out homering entire teams as a testament to how much better he was than any modern play who couldn't dominate their peers to that degree?
Did you know that in 1922 Tillie Walker out homered two entire teams in MLB? Judge and Ohtani never did that, right? Get what I am saying?
1910 Old Mill Tillie Walker! Walker more dominating in single season Home Runs than both Judge and Ohtani who could never do that incredible feat ...there are none for sale right now or I might hit someones 2x priced Buy it Now based on these terrific revelations on how much better all those guys were than modern guys
Oh, and catch this. Tillie only struck out 67 times while out homering entire teams! . You guys have to be salivating now! judge and Ohtani can't out homer teams and they strike out more than twice as much as that!
Im a strong believer that when talking about generational players both things are true that other than the 1800s players
Wagner and Cy Young played in the 1800's. Young started in 1890.
Cap Anson started in 1871. In 1894 at age 43 Anson put up a 143 OPS+, and in that same legaue a 27 year Cy Young had a 138 ERA+.
In 1908 at age 41, Cy Young had a 195 ERA+. In that same year Honus Wagner had a 205 OPS+.
In 1908 Walter Johnson was 20 years old and had a 138 ERA+. Ty Cobb was 21 and led the league with 170 OPS+. Etc..
@bgr said:
if you sent today's players back in time to the 1800s every 1980s child knows what would happen.
Broken Arm, Broken Leg, Exhaustion, Cholera, Typhiod, Snakebite, Fever, Drowning, Measles, and everyone's favorite... don't forget to wear your brown pants... Dysentery.
!")
Jim Creighton goes unnoticed in history and he was the 'babe ruth' and 'ohtani' of his time. He died of an abdominal rupture. Legend has it that he swung so hard on a home run that it caused that injury. He died in his prime.
He played in the early 1860's.
"In 1860 the Excelsiors embarked on the first tour by any baseball club, with stops in Albany, Buffalo, Canada, Philadelphia, Washington, and Baltimore, among others. That year, in 20 match games, Creighton scored 47 runs while being retired only 56 times. Not once did he strike out. He also started baseball’s first recorded triple play, on September 22, and threw baseball’s first recorded shutout, on November 8.
But the best was to be saved for last. After another championship campaign in 1861, Creighton went through the 1862 season as not only the game’s peerless pitcher but also its top batsman, being retired only four times, either in plate appearances or on the basepaths."
Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani may be the past and current Home Run kings but they weren't and aren't anywhere close to the best MLB PLAYER of all-time. I would consider a better well-rounded hitter/fielder for the title, guys like Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays come to mind. I'm sure other members can analyze the question better than me. A good HR hitter can be neutralized by pitching around him whenever possible while good pure hitters can't.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
@Maywood said:
Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani may be the past and current Home Run kings but they weren't and aren't anywhere close to the best MLB PLAYER of all-time. I would consider a better well-rounded hitter/fielder for the title, guys like Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays come to mind. I'm sure other members can analyze the question better than me. A good HR hitter can be neutralized by pitching around him whenever possible while good pure hitters can't.
What about the impure hitters? Do they get ten lashes?
Comments
Why not? He used a bat as heavy as 54 oz. 44oz. and 40oz. Dropping down another 6 oz. would have increased his bat speed.
I also mentioned the pure white balls they use today. Back in Ruth's era, they used them until they got very dirty and harder to see.
The guy was a freak of nature. I think he might hit 85 in today's game.
Wagner is the forgotten GOAT candidate. Ruth was undoubtedly a better hitter, but not by so much as nearly everyone thinks. But Wagner was, by all accounts both contemporary and modern, an absolutely phenomenal shortstop. By Bill James' reckoning, Wagner's 1908 season was the greatest season by any player ever. Wagner's adjusted batting runs (linear weights method) that year was 66; second place was 33. Wagner did dominate the game at a level only Ruth can match.
If you had to defend the statement that Ruth was undoubtedly a better hitter than Wagner can you share how you would construct the argument?
John McGraw called Wagner the best player he ever saw. The old timers in Ruth's time often echoed those same sentiments that Wagner was better than Ruth and played the game it was supposed to be played.
That is the definition of silly. You didn't even say he could hit 100 one year. You said "100 A year" as per meaning on yearly basis.
Per your logic, the contemporaries of Ruth would experience the same 'benefits' as Ruth playing today. Lets for a minute forget all the MUCH harder aspects Ruth would also face in the opposite direction, and just give you the 'benefits' of your logic.
Here is what Ruth's contemporaries would then hit today when you think Ruth's 60 would be 100 today:
Foxx would hit 97 home runs
Greenberg would hit 97 home runs
Hack Wilson 93
Gehrig 82
Chuck Klein 72
Hornsby 70
Ott 70
Cy Williams 68
Ken Williams 65
Tillie Walker 61.7
So it looks like Aaron Judge would be in a battle with Tillie Walker for a battle for the 11th best Home Run season for a hitter of the last 20 years. I guess it would depend if the wind was blowing in or out on a few days if Tillie Walker would best Aaron Judge.
Forget Ohtani having a shot. He would be bested by all those players(and more) from the 20's and early 30's.
At least Ohtani's 55 Home Runs would best Don Hurst's 52. Go Don Hurst.
This is why it has become futile to even speculate what one would or not do today, because all sense of reason and logic just seems to get thrown out the window when making claims.
100 is never going to happen. They just stop pitching to you
Fire AJ Preller
100 not needed. You guys have Foxx hitting 97 and Tillie Walker besting Aaron Judge and Ohtani. At least Ohtani edges out Don Hurst.
Glad to know the ridiculousness is doubly so.
I think you misunderstood me. I was agreeing with you. Those numbers arent going to happen. Bonds got walked like 180 times the year he hit 73. He could have maybe approached those numbers that year but they just stop letting you hit and walk you if youre that good.
Ruth would be elite today and maybe a few extra HRs especially since Yankee stadium is so lefty friendly. but no he wouldnt be hitting a 100 homeruns nor would the other guys be approaching those numbers
Fire AJ Preller
MIGHT HIT.
The entire post is a joke. I don't think the time machine has been invented yet.
Yeh, might hit....and the other guys might hit 97 each etc etc etc. Just pure silliness.
At least you led me to my next purchase...a 1910 Old Mill Tillie Walker, since your method his best single season home run total on par with Aaron Judge's. Maybe that method will catch on and Tillie Walker RC's will catch fire.
I understand what you are saying...but haven't you mentioned Ruth out homering entire teams as a testament to how much better he was than any modern play who couldn't dominate their peers to that degree?
Did you know that in 1922 Tillie Walker out homered two entire teams in MLB? Judge and Ohtani never did that, right? Get what I am saying?
1910 Old Mill Tillie Walker! Walker more dominating in single season Home Runs than both Judge and Ohtani who could never do that incredible feat
...there are none for sale right now or I might hit someones 2x priced Buy it Now based on these terrific revelations on how much better all those guys were than modern guys 
Oh, and catch this. Tillie only struck out 67 times while out homering entire teams!
. You guys have to be salivating now! judge and Ohtani can't out homer teams and they strike out more than twice as much as that!
this.
I have argued this ad nauseum over the years. Add modern nutrition/healthcare to modern training and equipment.
If Ruth had been born in 1995 instead of 1895, you had better believe he would have been stronger, healthier and probably taller.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
this is a FANTASTIC post.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Wagner was still pretty limber for a man of 59 years old!!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I agree. Still had the knack where to throw the double play ball too without looking.
I did mention that but also that Othani could outshine him depending how his pitching career goes on. If he can avoid that third TJ which unfortunately I dont think he will and keeps pitching at this level as a two way player he could have that same separation as a two way player against his peers.
Im a strong believer that when talking about generational players both things are true that other than the 1800s players they would still be one of the best today and that if you sent todays guys back in time with what was available back then they wouldnt go and just make a joke out of the league either.
Fire AJ Preller
if you sent today's players back in time to the 1800s every 1980s child knows what would happen.
Broken Arm, Broken Leg, Exhaustion, Cholera, Typhiod, Snakebite, Fever, Drowning, Measles, and everyone's favorite... don't forget to wear your brown pants... Dysentery.
I was born in 1964, and I think it was the golden age of vaccinations. We got shots for, smallpox, measles, mumps, tetanus, polio may have been oral or a shot, rubella and probably several more. Only side effects for me was a lifelong desire to receive live saving vaccines.
A couple weeks ago at Walgreens I got 3 jabs, tetanus, flu and pneumonia. Wanted to give me my 4th covid booster but I said next time 4 shots at once is a lot even for me.😁
It’s funny how so many people forget recent history. My mom went to school one day only to learn one of her friends contracted polio the day before. They were terrified because they didn’t know who would get it next. My uncle had a fear of getting lock jaw, which is what tetanus does.
I think his fear was a little extreme but he did grow up on a farm, lots of rusty nails just waiting to get stepped on. 😫😫
Darin - I don't know if you know this but stevek is a bit of an amateur vaccination expert. By his own accord he has done perhaps more research on the subject than just about anyone and there is a possibility of a career in the field of vaccineologicology in his future. Gambler, Sports Pundit, Philanthropist. It's for... the People.
Stevek could talk Cliff Clavin into a catatonic stupor without taking a breath. That’s his one and only area of expertise.
I forgot shingles which was a two parter. One jab and then the second jab two or three months later.
Thank you Carla.
Thanks for the compliments.
I don't know a thing about you, but I thought your former avatar name "check your diaper" was very innovative. LOL
is Babe Ruth as good as Yoshinobu Yamamoto?
He would definitely have to quit the hot dogs,boozing,and late night chick chasing.
Wagner and Cy Young played in the 1800's. Young started in 1890.
Cap Anson started in 1871. In 1894 at age 43 Anson put up a 143 OPS+, and in that same legaue a 27 year Cy Young had a 138 ERA+.
In 1908 at age 41, Cy Young had a 195 ERA+. In that same year Honus Wagner had a 205 OPS+.
In 1908 Walter Johnson was 20 years old and had a 138 ERA+. Ty Cobb was 21 and led the league with 170 OPS+. Etc..
Maybe the 1870's guys aren't as bad as you think.
Jim Creighton goes unnoticed in history and he was the 'babe ruth' and 'ohtani' of his time. He died of an abdominal rupture. Legend has it that he swung so hard on a home run that it caused that injury. He died in his prime.
He played in the early 1860's.
"In 1860 the Excelsiors embarked on the first tour by any baseball club, with stops in Albany, Buffalo, Canada, Philadelphia, Washington, and Baltimore, among others. That year, in 20 match games, Creighton scored 47 runs while being retired only 56 times. Not once did he strike out. He also started baseball’s first recorded triple play, on September 22, and threw baseball’s first recorded shutout, on November 8.
But the best was to be saved for last. After another championship campaign in 1861, Creighton went through the 1862 season as not only the game’s peerless pitcher but also its top batsman, being retired only four times, either in plate appearances or on the basepaths."
Perhaps he was the greatest.
Sounds like if Jim Creighton played today he might out-homer entire cities.
Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani may be the past and current Home Run kings but they weren't and aren't anywhere close to the best MLB PLAYER of all-time. I would consider a better well-rounded hitter/fielder for the title, guys like Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays come to mind. I'm sure other members can analyze the question better than me. A good HR hitter can be neutralized by pitching around him whenever possible while good pure hitters can't.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
Nah. But he's almost as good as Rowdy Tellez.
What about the impure hitters? Do they get ten lashes?