toning and grading. advantage or distraction?
tonedcoinlover
Posts: 52 ✭✭✭
Does a a nicely toned coin influence the graders?
On the other hand does a darkly toned coin also influence their opinion?
thoughts?
0
Comments
Eye appeal is often part of the grade and thus attractive toning can get a bump to a generic untoned example while a dark example can be held back.
I thought about this when I looked at CoinFacts for the Booker T Washington Half Dollar. The MS-68 with good toning has a lot more contact marks than the MS-66. Maybe there are other reasons for the grade, but this one stood out.
MS-68
MS-66
I will add that some toning can cross the line into Environmental Damage.
Had a gorgeous 1960's proof cent come back ED.
Careful when buying raw toners for a myriad of reasons.
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In many, if not most cases yes and yes. Those sound like rhetorical questions.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
They read like them too!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
YMMV
Tarnish on a coin can get worse over time. I have no idea how graders evaluate toners. I would think it’ may vary between graders. But the fact the coin may darken over time makes me wonder. So a grade at one point in time could be obsolete at another point in time. Now if you’re moving them quickly….
Toning breaks don’t necessarily translate to contact marks, and sometimes a very minor scuff can appear larger if it breaks toning. In the two coins above, the 66 photo is poorly lit which may make it look cleaner, but I wouldn’t draw conclusions from those two photos other than to say the 68 looks phenomenal and the 66 is… not as phenomenal.
@tonedcoinlover . Your user name is a little "on the nose'. Having said that, Let me know if beaituful coins fall into disfavor. As always, beauty is subjective and what role it plays in the grading of coins will forever be impossible to measure. James
Yes
I'm talking about actual contact marks. A few that stand out.
Not all of those are contact marks, and even in the giant version of the photo, they're small and outside the prime focal areas. Purely on marks that may not be the best 68 on the planet, but we're still talking really small marks on a coin that has a lot else going for it, and lighting may make some of those marks yet less visible in hand. And again, we're comparing it to a coin whose photo is very poorly lit, so there's a lot to be desired from the comparison. Besides, go look at the photo of the 66 full-size and take a look at the cheek.
And if all of those were contact marks it would serve as an even better example of the grade being bumped due to appealing color/eye appeal.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, with an asterisk that the color may also mask the severity of the marks, thus the toning's influence may be partially indirect. One series where this seems prevalent is Franklin halves, where it seems that the majority of high grade pieces are somewhat heavily toned. They might not all be cleaner than white coins, but if marks are muted because of the toning, the coin has an appearance of being a bit cleaner/the marks it has become less distracting.
Let me rephrase this....
Do you think a darkly toned coin with little or no marks would be graded the same as would a lightly toned example for the same date with similar number of marks?
By how many points?
I believe we are saying the same thing. In my OP, I conceded: Maybe there are other reasons for the grade, but this one stood out.
Toning is tarnish. Unfortunately Tarnish gets worse over time. At some point in time a coin may go really bad in the holder. A true junk box piece.
Not a mind reader on graders. I believe it would be graded for that point in time. Beyond that if the coin goes bad in the holde (tarnish gets worse, black spot craters, etc) then what that grader thought it at that point (grading) in time is obsolete. Savvy players will discount their offer accordingly (they are not dummies) or just pass. Many will hope that a good dip will salvage the situation but of. course hedge their bet (offer). Sort of like poker.
The BTW toned coin just can’t see it at MS68 imo (marks). It does look nice. But Dark spot on cheek. Somewhat nice toner but what did it look like when graded? How much darker will it get over time. Rims really getting dark. Cheek seems scuffed up. The toning masks it somewhat.
Not all toning progresses, and will say most never progress to terminal when removed from primary source of interacting agent.