When is a Hostess Twinkie card "panel" not a "panel?"
RonSportscards
Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭✭✭
I subbed a 1977 Hostess Twinkie (Cupcake actually) single serve uncut card panel to PSA and it was returned as Hand Cut Authentic.
And now the rant...
PSA says it is NOT a "panel" because of it's size.
Quote: "...due to the size not meeting the requirement to be considered a "Complete Panel"
Huh?!?
There are 7 different sizes of Hostess single serve uncut card panels depending on the snack product included. 
The Cey being included with the Cupcakes, just like Geronimo, Koosman, and Templeton card panels. 
But NO, those aren't "panels" according to PSA, but the bigger ones are, like the Murcer and Monday card panels.
Now THOSE are panels. Sorry guys, but size matters.
So they treat these as the same. Handcut vs complete original panel
Finding one complete with minimal staining is tough, and had I known, I would have cut it to get nice sharp corners.
Now here's the kicker. My card apparently received an Authentic grade because it didn't meet the size requirement of a panel even though it is the originally distributed size and has not been hand cut.
Comments
Im sure PSA will be glad to re-evaluate if you pay them again
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me 2025
After doing some digging, I guess I was wrong.
Found other examples and apparently PSA has been treating the Cupcake panels the same as Hand Cut all along.
When I looked up the POP report for 1977 Hostess Twinkies and saw some players having Hand Cut AND Complete Panels with very low POP, I wouldn't figure that only applied to some panels. I just thought a Cey panel has never been graded yet.
I still disagree with PSAs premise, but it's certainly too late to change anything.
I guess I'm the proud owner of the most expensive, lowest graded Hostess Twinkie Cey not-a-panel card.
But hey, it's for the PC so I can at least check it off the list.
I have had luck in the past with a mechanical error submission on cards like yours as I have been working on these sets for years. One of the criteria they use on "hand cut" cards is visible border on all sides to get numeric grades. Since there was never a border on the right/left of these, I have submitted photos like what you have in the thread of raw and graded and outlined that the version in this case never had side borders that were "removed" in cutting. Possible option as yours is nice and would probably garner a good grade - certainly more than current authentic
Thanks. I have made my case to PSA research, but in typical fashion, PSA has ghosted me.
They said their piece, which is final, right or wrong, and they're not interested in hearing any more discussion or debate about it. To them, these particular card panels are viewed as the same as the hand cut versions strictly because of the panel size.
Whether the card is Authentic or a PSA 1, 2, or 3, is not especially important to me in this case, since it's for the PC.
I was more interested in accurately representing the different varieties and stages of a card (Original ≠ Hand cut).
I'm still looking for a decent Carew Twinkie. It doesn't seem like there were many or any uncirculated cards that were not packaged, in high-grade condition.
What type of poisonous oil(s) did they put in these things to keep them fresh? Their cellophane packaging must have been sub-standard for those "wet Twinkies" to seep all over the place?!?
Erik
What year? 1975s seem pretty easy. I've seen sellers having uncut rolls of cards never used in packaging.
I sent a 1975 Cey hand cut card in for grading.
I just hope that the grader realizes that one edge did not originally have the dotted lines. (I don't want another Authentic.)
It seems the grader didn't know about the no dotted lines on this Aaron card, giving it an Authentic grade.
This 1977 Carew Twinkie PSA8, only 1 graded higher, just sold less than 3 months ago.
https://www.psacard.com/cert/109403941/psa
Well, Shaun at PSA did finally reach back to me to once again say that my complete panel is considered hand-cut, and referenced the Standard Catalog, saying the Twinkie panel listed size is 3-1/8"x 4-1/2", and any panel smaller is considered hand-cut.
But card panels came with other snack cakes, not just Twinkies, and in different sizes.
PSA, following the Catalog's lead, grouped all the snack cake cards/card panels under the moniker "Twinkie."
Maybe a better distinction would have been "Single Serve" or "Individual Serving" at the time, but it's certainly too late.
If the Catalog is PSA's source, how can a clearly stated complete panel be considered hand-cut?
The complete description from the 2008 Standard Catalog states:
"The 1977 Hostess Twinkie issue, at 150 different cards, is the largest of the single-panel Twinkie sets.
It is also the most obscure. The cards, which measure 2-1/4" x 3-1/4" but are part of a larger panel, were found not only with Twinkies, but with Hostess Cupcakes as well. Cards #1-30 and 111-150 are Twinkies panels and #31-135 are Cupcakes panels. Complete Cupcakes panels are approximately 2-1/4" x 4-1/2" in size, while complete Twinkies panels measure 3-1/8" x 4-1/4". The photos used in the set are identical to those in the 1977 Hostess three-card panel set. The main difference is the appearance of a black band at the center of the card back. While cards actually issued with snack cakes are virtually always found with brown stains, enough unissued cards were leaked into the hobby to provide clean examples for those willing to search them out and pay the price."
*** EDIT TO ADD ***
PSA responded back quickly and decided to take another look and had me send it in for review.
At who's expense?
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me 2025
PSAs. The rep said they'll gather my evidence and the research dept will "take a 3rd look."
It's under mechanical error/label correction but I also noted about the grade, asking if it was because the grader thinking it was hand cut and the side dotted lines, which were never there to begin with, were cut away. We'll see what happens.
I’m really rooting for you; I like when good research is rewarded.
Good luck
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest