@joeykoins said:
I think the
"Word of the Year"
should be,
FORGIVEN
Yes but as mentioned you should do as member's here have stated send the label back to PSA and maybe destroy the card then I believe they will forgive you.
@craig44 said:
what a weird thread. i find it very difficult to follow the OP writing style.
beyond that, very unethical. and very dissapointing once his sig line was pointed out.
if you are going to act that way, why not just remove that line?
As Jesus said may the one among that never sinned throw the first stone....lets see how many of us can actually follow that guidance. Joey understands he made a mistake. Like I said he should never sell that card to anyone in good conscience. And to never alter a card again.
That makes three times that you have said the card should never be sold to someone else, and that scenario seems to be an important part of your forgiveness. But...he hasn't said it.
I don't think Joey is a bad person at all, but I do think he is addicted to gambling. I don't mean that as an insult or accusation, it's just an observation based on his old threads in the coin forum and his newer threads here. It's all about the thrill of the hunt, hoping for a big score, whether it's silver coins in a coin roll from the bank or a rare card from a pack. Most of us probably do the same thing on some level.
He called the card doctoring an "experiment", but it was really just another roll of the dice, to see if the card would come back with a higher grade than it deserved, or if it would come back labeled as altered. No evil intent, just another gamble.
It's easy to see why collectors are so upset by this, but with all due respect, I don't think Joey is a collector. After all, he mentioned somewhere above that a card was "inventory". He walked away from coins easily enough when the thrill was gone, and he'll probably do the same with cards at some point. (Hopefully before he goes bankrupt ripping those boxes. 😆 ).
But that's fine - lots of people do the same thing at some point. On the coin side, for example, there have been people who were into coins 100% of the time and then suddenly just "retired" from the hobby, sold everything off, and then just walked away. I don't understand it personally, but that's how some people approach it.
@joeykoins said:
I think the
"Word of the Year"
should be,
FORGIVEN
Yes but as mentioned you should do as member's here have stated send the label back to PSA and maybe destroy the card then I believe they will forgive you.
Agreed. Also please don't stop posting on these forums over 1 mistake. "Rip" threads are great to see, whether vintage or modern, and the joeykoins rip thread is a great source of information regarding what kind of cards are coming out of the modern packs these days.
I know for a fact PSA has enough information and is aware of this thread…and PSA will act appropriately. Besides being very wrong…the gloating about it…and trying to justify it…take the act to another level.
@80sOPC said:
Maybe time for everyone to chill, there are about a gazillion altered cards in TPG holders. We probably shouldn’t hold this Griffey to a higher standard then the Mastro Wagner.
What I find interesting and have been thinking about since this story was shared is how did PSA actually look at this card. I get that people are upset about the intent. Deception. But were they actually deceived? Its a 2024 (released in 2025) pack fresh card that is a PSA 8. That is kind of a lousy grade for a modern card. If someone admitted to taking a Sharpie to a whitened corner of an 85 Topps Walter Payton and it came back a PSA 10, whoa oh boy, yeah there was deception intended and the grader was tricked.
Is it possible PSA looked at it and said there is a mark on it so its an 8? The old way with qualifiers, it could be a PSA 9 (MK). Which is more or less a PSA 7. 7, 8 kind of close. Is it possible these days without qualifiers a card with a mark on it could get a PSA 8?
You might see a 50s card submitted a while back where a kid crossed out Reds and wrote Braves or put the uniform number on the back of the card. Maybe it got a PSA 4 (MK) instead of them saying doctored, altered, we wont grade it. Is it possible they dont care about intent and graded a card with a mark on it and felt 8 was appropriate for a pack fresh card with a mark on it? I mean Ken Griffey Sr. took a marker and wrote all over it. It could have been his marker that hit a space other than the intended signature area. If that happened, maybe that makes it an 8.
@80sOPC said:
Maybe time for everyone to chill, there are about a gazillion altered cards in TPG holders. We probably shouldn’t hold this Griffey to a higher standard then the Mastro Wagner.
What I find interesting and have been thinking about since this story was shared is how did PSA actually look at this card. I get that people are upset about the intent. Deception. But were they actually deceived? Its a 2024 (released in 2025) pack fresh card that is a PSA 8. That is kind of a lousy grade for a modern card. If someone admitted to taking a Sharpie to a whitened corner of an 85 Topps Walter Payton and it came back a PSA 10, whoa oh boy, yeah there was deception intended and the grader was tricked.
Is it possible PSA looked at it and said there is a mark on it so its an 8? The old way with qualifiers, it could be a PSA 9 (MK). Which is more or less a PSA 7. 7, 8 kind of close. Is it possible these days without qualifiers a card with a mark on it could get a PSA 8?
You might see a 50s card submitted a while back where a kid crossed out Reds and wrote Braves or put the uniform number on the back of the card. Maybe it got a PSA 4 (MK) instead of them saying doctored, altered, we wont grade it. Is it possible they dont care about intent and graded a card with a mark on it and felt 8 was appropriate for a pack fresh card with a mark on it? I mean Ken Griffey Sr. took a marker and wrote all over it. It could have been his marker that hit a space other than the intended signature area. If that happened, maybe that makes it an 8.
It's purely theoretical, of course, but that's a good point. If the spot did turn up under a special light, did they assume it was Griffey's doing?
The biggest problem here is that it chips away at the illusion of authenticity. People have to believe that PSA can tell the difference otherwise they have to accept that their treasures might be altered. Now you show an example where they miss it and this is a problem. We have to suspend disbelief. We have to make excuses to justify the error. This might be the only time it's ever happened. It's because the "AI" didn't catch this one. Or, dishonesty is only wrong, when it's malicious. Dishonesty is only wrong when it's profitable.
I am not saying any of this to disparage anyone either. I think the whole process is interesting and seeing how this thread has turned is interesting. It's mob mentality in action and it gets ugly fast.
I don't know what the truth is, but I don't think this was malicious, and, while I suspect, Joey here knew he was doing something wrong, I don't think he fully understood the scope of it. But. I do believe he knows now and he seems to understand that, and I would say, and, really only because it's gotten a little out of control here, that I think we should really just stop trying to extract that pound of flesh here - to keep with the recent biblical theme.
@bgr said:
The biggest problem here is that it chips away at the illusion of authenticity. People have to believe that PSA can tell the difference otherwise they have to accept that their treasures might be altered. Now you show an example where they miss it and this is a problem. We have to suspend disbelief. We have to make excuses to justify the error. This might be the only time it's ever happened. It's because the "AI" didn't catch this one. Or, dishonesty is only wrong, when it's malicious. Dishonesty is only wrong when it's profitable.
I am not saying any of this to disparage anyone either. I think the whole process is interesting and seeing how this thread has turned is interesting. It's mob mentality in action and it gets ugly fast.
I don't know what the truth is, but I don't think this was malicious, and, while I suspect, Joey here knew he was doing something wrong, I don't think he fully understood the scope of it. But. I do believe he knows now and he seems to understand that, and I would say, and, really only because it's gotten a little out of control here, that I think we should really just stop trying to extract that pound of flesh here - to keep with the recent biblical theme.
A lesson well-learnt Joey.
Thank you!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
One more thing...
I found the original thread of mine.
Here is the Before
&
After
Pics
Before
After
I probably still received an
8.
Bc that same corner appears a tad banged up.
Or, is my marker placement
has become darker than the actual border color?
And they caught it, then giving it an 8?
Thanks
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
@bgr said:
The biggest problem here is that it chips away at the illusion of authenticity. People have to believe that PSA can tell the difference otherwise they have to accept that their treasures might be altered. Now you show an example where they miss it and this is a problem. We have to suspend disbelief. We have to make excuses to justify the error. This might be the only time it's ever happened. It's because the "AI" didn't catch this one. Or, dishonesty is only wrong, when it's malicious. Dishonesty is only wrong when it's profitable.
I am not saying any of this to disparage anyone either. I think the whole process is interesting and seeing how this thread has turned is interesting. It's mob mentality in action and it gets ugly fast.
I don't know what the truth is, but I don't think this was malicious, and, while I suspect, Joey here knew he was doing something wrong, I don't think he fully understood the scope of it. But. I do believe he knows now and he seems to understand that, and I would say, and, really only because it's gotten a little out of control here, that I think we should really just stop trying to extract that pound of flesh here - to keep with the recent biblical theme.
A lesson well-learnt Joey.
I'm still leaving the door open that they didn't miss it. If its a PSA 10, they missed it. But at the same time we can play that game with ugly PSA 10s that aren't dead-centered. Say they missed it and are wrong but its subjective to a degree.
Its a PSA 8 on a modern pack-fresh card. Maybe they caught it and said that's an 8. Maybe without a mark they say its a 10.
what's the reasoning for completely destroying the card? If you want to remove the possibility of reselling a doctored PSA 8 just cut that particular corner off and keep it.
@CardCollector11 said:
what's the reasoning for completely destroying the card? If you want to remove the possibility of reselling a doctored PSA 8 just cut that particular corner off and keep it.
That's an idea!
Thanks
😊
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
@bgr said:
You shouldn’t doctor cards. Since you seem to have the awareness of a child you get a pass but be aware that it’s not an accepted practice and it may result in your being banned from grading and having your other certs deactivated.
Thanks for participating.
Not doctoring, repairing. Like when many "wipe down" cards (cleaning) before sending out.
Thanks😊
That's not even close to being a legitimate analogy. Wiping down a card is not doctoring the card. Recoloring is. Any serious collector understands the difference and will tell you the same.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Comments
Yes but as mentioned you should do as member's here have stated send the label back to PSA and maybe destroy the card then I believe they will forgive you.
Member here for 5 years
That makes three times that you have said the card should never be sold to someone else, and that scenario seems to be an important part of your forgiveness. But...he hasn't said it.
I don't think Joey is a bad person at all, but I do think he is addicted to gambling. I don't mean that as an insult or accusation, it's just an observation based on his old threads in the coin forum and his newer threads here. It's all about the thrill of the hunt, hoping for a big score, whether it's silver coins in a coin roll from the bank or a rare card from a pack. Most of us probably do the same thing on some level.
He called the card doctoring an "experiment", but it was really just another roll of the dice, to see if the card would come back with a higher grade than it deserved, or if it would come back labeled as altered. No evil intent, just another gamble.
It's easy to see why collectors are so upset by this, but with all due respect, I don't think Joey is a collector. After all, he mentioned somewhere above that a card was "inventory". He walked away from coins easily enough when the thrill was gone, and he'll probably do the same with cards at some point. (Hopefully before he goes bankrupt ripping those boxes. 😆 ).
But that's fine - lots of people do the same thing at some point. On the coin side, for example, there have been people who were into coins 100% of the time and then suddenly just "retired" from the hobby, sold everything off, and then just walked away. I don't understand it personally, but that's how some people approach it.
Agreed. Also please don't stop posting on these forums over 1 mistake. "Rip" threads are great to see, whether vintage or modern, and the joeykoins rip thread is a great source of information regarding what kind of cards are coming out of the modern packs these days.
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
I know for a fact PSA has enough information and is aware of this thread…and PSA will act appropriately. Besides being very wrong…the gloating about it…and trying to justify it…take the act to another level.
Remember, I did post, I have another Griffey Sr. ROA!
I "WILL" Destroy the original.
Thank you guys
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Just a bump in the road. And a learning experience for a lot of us who were watching from the sidelines.
Keep on doing what you do (but not the card doctoring part 🩺💉 😆 ).
Take pictures so you can post them here. Of destroying the card. And send PSA back the label. Continue to post Joey many of us enjoy browsing through.
Member here for 5 years
What I find interesting and have been thinking about since this story was shared is how did PSA actually look at this card. I get that people are upset about the intent. Deception. But were they actually deceived? Its a 2024 (released in 2025) pack fresh card that is a PSA 8. That is kind of a lousy grade for a modern card. If someone admitted to taking a Sharpie to a whitened corner of an 85 Topps Walter Payton and it came back a PSA 10, whoa oh boy, yeah there was deception intended and the grader was tricked.
Is it possible PSA looked at it and said there is a mark on it so its an 8? The old way with qualifiers, it could be a PSA 9 (MK). Which is more or less a PSA 7. 7, 8 kind of close. Is it possible these days without qualifiers a card with a mark on it could get a PSA 8?
You might see a 50s card submitted a while back where a kid crossed out Reds and wrote Braves or put the uniform number on the back of the card. Maybe it got a PSA 4 (MK) instead of them saying doctored, altered, we wont grade it. Is it possible they dont care about intent and graded a card with a mark on it and felt 8 was appropriate for a pack fresh card with a mark on it? I mean Ken Griffey Sr. took a marker and wrote all over it. It could have been his marker that hit a space other than the intended signature area. If that happened, maybe that makes it an 8.
It's purely theoretical, of course, but that's a good point. If the spot did turn up under a special light, did they assume it was Griffey's doing?
The biggest problem here is that it chips away at the illusion of authenticity. People have to believe that PSA can tell the difference otherwise they have to accept that their treasures might be altered. Now you show an example where they miss it and this is a problem. We have to suspend disbelief. We have to make excuses to justify the error. This might be the only time it's ever happened. It's because the "AI" didn't catch this one. Or, dishonesty is only wrong, when it's malicious. Dishonesty is only wrong when it's profitable.
I am not saying any of this to disparage anyone either. I think the whole process is interesting and seeing how this thread has turned is interesting. It's mob mentality in action and it gets ugly fast.
I don't know what the truth is, but I don't think this was malicious, and, while I suspect, Joey here knew he was doing something wrong, I don't think he fully understood the scope of it. But. I do believe he knows now and he seems to understand that, and I would say, and, really only because it's gotten a little out of control here, that I think we should really just stop trying to extract that pound of flesh here - to keep with the recent biblical theme.
A lesson well-learnt Joey.
Thank you!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.One more thing...
I found the original thread of mine.
Here is the
Before
&
After
Pics
Before
After
I probably still received an
8.
Bc that same corner appears a tad banged up.
Or, is my marker placement
has become darker than the actual border color?
And they caught it, then giving it an 8?
Thanks
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I'm still leaving the door open that they didn't miss it. If its a PSA 10, they missed it. But at the same time we can play that game with ugly PSA 10s that aren't dead-centered. Say they missed it and are wrong but its subjective to a degree.
Its a PSA 8 on a modern pack-fresh card. Maybe they caught it and said that's an 8. Maybe without a mark they say its a 10.
what's the reasoning for completely destroying the card? If you want to remove the possibility of reselling a doctored PSA 8 just cut that particular corner off and keep it.
That's an idea!
Thanks
😊
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.That's not even close to being a legitimate analogy. Wiping down a card is not doctoring the card. Recoloring is. Any serious collector understands the difference and will tell you the same.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Not if they can't detect it.
I'd like to see the Griffey in the slab. Can you even tell anything was done to it through the plastic?
Most people who do stuff like that won't admit it. This guy told you and you're angry at him.
Speaking for myself but its total disgust and disappointment not anger
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Thanks man
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.