@MilesWaits said:
Gird your loins, gonna be a surprising number.
Go ahead, give it a guess!
Not really. 8K was the first ATS number published, way back when. I thought it was BS at the time, but now, in hindsight, I think it's the actual number they planned to make and sell all along. I'll bet the published number is going to be pretty close to it.
The ATS number is never BS. It is the amount of inventory the mint chooses to make available on its website. As this number is a choice, it can never be wrong. Please stop conflating it with production numbers or inventory. It is neither.
I'm not conflating it with anything. Clearly, it is exactly what it is.
That said, if it's not inventory available for sale, as opposed to just a random number loaded into a system, it's nothing to me. Seeing 20 of any item on the shelf means nothing to me if I want to buy 30, and there are another 300 in the stockroom, just waiting for me to come along and buy them. OTOH, if there is no stockroom, then 20 is the number available for purchase.
If ATS is not supposed to represent inventory available for sale, there is no reason for anyone here to be concerned about it. At all.
Saw both gold and silver pop up, not long enough to checkout though.
So, whose getting these & checking out? Bots?
Pretty much. When you are down to single digits of something in demand, a human cannot match the speed of a machine in completing a transaction.
Even assuming no bots, if they are now being successfully blocked, there are likely several dozen, or several hundred, people chasing 4, or 7, or whatever. Everyone trying to do exactly the same thing at exactly the same time.
Just do the math, Anyone's odds of success are closer to zero than even 10%.
The time to get these was Thursday. If you were on the fence, and decided to jump in based on speculation regarding a short strike, everyone here had another shot during the Friday morning reload. One last shot Saturday morning, with no HHL.
Now it's done. The quantities returning will be miniscule, until becoming zero in the next few days, because there will be no buyer's remorse returns. Just undeliverable packages and bad credit cards.
And undeliverable packages take a while to make their way back to ATS, because they have to go out, sit on a truck for a few days, then go back to PFS and be inspected before even getting in the queue to be added to ATS. Unless they shock us all and make the missing 4K.
The odds of anything ever happening like what happened on that random Thanksgiving Sunday with the V75 AGE, with large quantity appearing out of nowhere, that you can actually grab, weeks after sell out, are very close to zero. With a much lower ROI.
The mint can still strike more of these, the numbers come out tomorrow. If it is only 7k and they limited it to 12k, that means 5k more potential sales. I hope it doesn't happen as this one is a killer buy at 7k mintage.
Looks like there is, indeed, 4650 potential 1 oz gold pieces to be had. The mystery thickens. Were they short struck? Did they hold them back for some legitimate reason? Perhaps there is a game afoot? And perhaps our beloved mint is simply incompetent. Oh, the drama!
Looks like there is, indeed, 4650 potential 1 oz gold pieces to be had. The mystery thickens. Were they short struck? Did they hold them back for some legitimate reason? Perhaps there is a game afoot? And perhaps our beloved mint is simply incompetent. Oh, the drama!
Edited for terrible spelling and grammar.
Manufactured drama. It's all very normal
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
It is hard to look at this and think of how much it costs. Like everyone i'm sure not used to paying this for a 1 ounce gold coin from the mint.
I really enjoy these coins in their original packaging.
I may just break down and grade this one quickly.Because it looks perfect.And I think it may be a winner so probably worth the hassle and expense hopefully to get a 70.
I do really enjoy them in the original packaging and hate grading these things but, it sure worked for my V75 AGE.
@mbogoman said:
Up briefly this morning, long enough for me to get one in the cart, but not long enough to complete the order...
So if the mint has four coins, and say there are 50 people on line, the mint's site allows all 50 to place one in their basket, yet only four people can take the next step to secure one.
It is hard to look at this and think of how much it costs. Like everyone i'm sure not used to paying this for a 1 ounce gold coin from the mint.
I really enjoy these coins in their original packaging.
I may just break down and grade this one quickly.Because it looks perfect.And I think it may be a winner so probably worth the hassle and expense hopefully to get a 70.
I do really enjoy them in the original packaging and hate grading these things but, it sure worked for my V75 AGE.
I received the Silver Medal this afternoon.
The silver version is quite stunning in hand !
The packaging is also very nice, and the COA
is identical to the Au but in dim silver).
Certainly a winner . . .
(Couldn't afford the Au)
@mbogoman said:
Up briefly this morning, long enough for me to get one in the cart, but not long enough to complete the order...
So if the mint has four coins, and say there are 50 people on line, the mint's site allows all 50 to place one in their basket, yet only four people can take the next step to secure one.
Basically, Yes.... Sometimes it is a stepwise process in the mornings. Keep it in the cart so the next day you are one step closer by refreshing from the cart and be ready to quickly click thru all pages to place order. I scored a second one on Saturday when approx. 30 popped up and I was a little slow but I prob had at least 30 seconds to complete. Much tougher now as the numbers are slim and no HHL and lots of competition.
@MilesWaits said:
Gird your loins, gonna be a surprising number.
Go ahead, give it a guess!
Not really. 8K was the first ATS number published, way back when. I thought it was BS at the time, but now, in hindsight, I think it's the actual number they planned to make and sell all along. I'll bet the published number is going to be pretty close to it.
The ATS number is never BS. It is the amount of inventory the mint chooses to make available on its website. As this number is a choice, it can never be wrong. Please stop conflating it with production numbers or inventory. It is neither.
I'm not conflating it with anything. Clearly, it is exactly what it is.
If you're calling it BS, you are conflating it with a number that is meaningful. There's a lot of assuming that the number represents the total quantity left, and sometimes it does, but that is an assumption.
If ATS is not supposed to represent inventory available for sale, there is no reason for anyone here to be concerned about it. At all.
Well you're right about that. People here are overly concerned about the number and rely on it way too much.
@MilesWaits said:
Gird your loins, gonna be a surprising number.
Go ahead, give it a guess!
Not really. 8K was the first ATS number published, way back when. I thought it was BS at the time, but now, in hindsight, I think it's the actual number they planned to make and sell all along. I'll bet the published number is going to be pretty close to it.
The ATS number is never BS. It is the amount of inventory the mint chooses to make available on its website. As this number is a choice, it can never be wrong. Please stop conflating it with production numbers or inventory. It is neither.
I'm not conflating it with anything. Clearly, it is exactly what it is.
If you're calling it BS, you are conflating it with a number that is meaningful. There's a lot of assuming that the number represents the total quantity left, and sometimes it does, but that is an assumption.
If ATS is not supposed to represent inventory available for sale, there is no reason for anyone here to be concerned about it. At all.
Well you're right about that. People here are overly concerned about the number and rely on it way too much.
People are overly concerned about a lot of numbers. Even mintage, by itself, is a useless number but it's being used in multiple threads to justify speculation.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@mbogoman said:
Curses!!! Foiled again!! Couldn't complete the checkout. Don't know how many there were, but there was at least one...
You do realize that for less then $200 premium above the mint price, you can buy at least 5 of these at Pure for $4450 right now.
Can you though? Is that the bid, or the offer? If it's not the offer, it's not where you "can buy at least 5 of these." It's just where someone hopes to buy at least 5.
@mbogoman said:
Curses!!! Foiled again!! Couldn't complete the checkout. Don't know how many there were, but there was at least one...
You do realize that for less then $200 premium above the mint price, you can buy at least 5 of these at Pure for $4450 right now.
Can you though? Is that the bid, or the offer? If it's not the offer, it's not where you "can buy at least 5 of these." It's just where someone hopes to buy at least 5.
There were 5 on offer. The seller appears to have withdrawn. If I would have had the cash lying around to tie up in these I would have. Still, a standing bid at $4400 (or back at $4450) might just get a taker or two from flippers who want/need fast money.
@mbogoman said:
Curses!!! Foiled again!! Couldn't complete the checkout. Don't know how many there were, but there was at least one...
You do realize that for less then $200 premium above the mint price, you can buy at least 5 of these at Pure for $4450 right now.
Can you though? Is that the bid, or the offer? If it's not the offer, it's not where you "can buy at least 5 of these." It's just where someone hopes to buy at least 5.
There were 5 on offer. The seller appears to have withdrawn. If I would have had the cash lying around to tie up in these I would have. Still, a standing bid at $4400 (or back at $4450) might just get a taker or two from flippers who want/need fast money.
Only from a dummy. The delta between that and completed eBay sales is far too rich for any self respecting flipper, regardless of how much safer Pure supposedly is.
Thursday 8-21, didn't buy one but watched from the sideline.
Friday 8-22, Mint listed 37 with HHL still in place. I watched it countdown to 10 and bought one.
Saturday 8-23, early morning release (73) with HHL lifted and got three.
All four arrived today and will be on their way to PCGS soon.
.
.About to go eat but got some quick, not so good shots.
.
@Baylor8670 said:
Random question - Why are these coins minted in NY but shipped from DFW?
Because the Mint doesn't physically box coins and send them out to retail, one at a time. They go to a fulfillment warehouse in Dallas. That's why.
Same reason whatever you buy from Amazon that is made in China, and sold to you by a third party Chinese vendor, isn't shipped to you from a factory in China.
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
So, the mint (either directly or indirectly) pays to move the coins to PFS's Dallas location where they are individually shipped from upon sale.
Extremely inefficient on the contractor's part but why should they care when the mint doesn't mind paying for it. Or maybe only anal retentive CPAs like me complain about the marginal cost between shipping the coins 50-100 miles to a closer fulfillment house versus 1,500 miles to DFW.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
If you called CS, they don't have any inside information.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
So, the mint (either directly or indirectly) pays to move the coins to PFS's Dallas location where they are individually shipped from upon sale.
Extremely inefficient on the contractor's part but why should they care when the mint doesn't mind paying for it. Or maybe only anal retentive CPAs like me complain about the marginal cost between shipping the coins 50-100 miles to a closer fulfillment house versus 1,500 miles to DFW.
There's more to it than just shipping the product. The contract covers a lot:
In the cover document, the Mint explains, “The primary day-to-day user of the order management system is the United States Mint’s Call Center and Fulfillment Operations service provider. The call center has a capacity of ~125 seats, receives 300,000-500,000 calls per year, consistently answers 80% of calls within 20 seconds or less, and takes in $15-35 million in revenue annually. Customer satisfaction with the center is 80 on a 100 point scale as measured by the ACSI (American Customer Satisfaction Index), besting all government and private sector benchmarks. The fulfillment center ships 1.7 to 2.0 million orders a year, 600 active sku’s generating 5.5 to 7.5 million units a year of gold, silver, platinum, palladium and cupro-nickel based coinage to a customer base of over 500,000. ”
@Bullsitter said:
Thursday 8-21, didn't buy one but watched from the sideline.
Friday 8-22, Mint listed 37 with HHL still in place. I watched it countdown to 10 and bought one.
Saturday 8-23, early morning release with HHL lifted and got three.
All four arrived today and will be on their way to PCGS soon.
.
.About to go eat but got some quick, not so good shots.
.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Your hunch is correct. Once the return period is over the remaining coins will be up for sale.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Your hunch is correct. Once the return period is over the remaining coins will be up for sale.
Doubtful that the return period has any impact here. The mint knows these coins will sell out in a timely matter. They don't need to concern themselves with gaming the market.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Your hunch is correct. Once the return period is over the remaining coins will be up for sale.
doubt they press off another 4500. in 2023 with spot at $1800ish it was a different equation to $3400. again a polished 24K blank costs the USM probably what $2-300 to manufacture to the coin standard. so what person would say sure press off $15.3million in product to maybe sell 1000-2000 more. then melt back the remainder at a loss?
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
If you called CS, they don't have any inside information.
Comments
I'm not conflating it with anything. Clearly, it is exactly what it is.
That said, if it's not inventory available for sale, as opposed to just a random number loaded into a system, it's nothing to me. Seeing 20 of any item on the shelf means nothing to me if I want to buy 30, and there are another 300 in the stockroom, just waiting for me to come along and buy them. OTOH, if there is no stockroom, then 20 is the number available for purchase.
If ATS is not supposed to represent inventory available for sale, there is no reason for anyone here to be concerned about it. At all.
Pretty much. When you are down to single digits of something in demand, a human cannot match the speed of a machine in completing a transaction.
Even assuming no bots, if they are now being successfully blocked, there are likely several dozen, or several hundred, people chasing 4, or 7, or whatever. Everyone trying to do exactly the same thing at exactly the same time.
Just do the math, Anyone's odds of success are closer to zero than even 10%.
The time to get these was Thursday. If you were on the fence, and decided to jump in based on speculation regarding a short strike, everyone here had another shot during the Friday morning reload. One last shot Saturday morning, with no HHL.
Now it's done. The quantities returning will be miniscule, until becoming zero in the next few days, because there will be no buyer's remorse returns. Just undeliverable packages and bad credit cards.
And undeliverable packages take a while to make their way back to ATS, because they have to go out, sit on a truck for a few days, then go back to PFS and be inspected before even getting in the queue to be added to ATS. Unless they shock us all and make the missing 4K.
The odds of anything ever happening like what happened on that random Thanksgiving Sunday with the V75 AGE, with large quantity appearing out of nowhere, that you can actually grab, weeks after sell out, are very close to zero. With a much lower ROI.
The mint can still strike more of these, the numbers come out tomorrow. If it is only 7k and they limited it to 12k, that means 5k more potential sales. I hope it doesn't happen as this one is a killer buy at 7k mintage.
i assume those people must be using bots to purchase so quickly
Source: https://www.usmint.gov/about/production-sales-figures/cumulative-sales
Edited: changed image to a different screenshot.
Looks like there is, indeed, 4650 potential 1 oz gold pieces to be had. The mystery thickens. Were they short struck? Did they hold them back for some legitimate reason? Perhaps there is a game afoot? And perhaps our beloved mint is simply incompetent. Oh, the drama!
Edited for terrible spelling and grammar.
Manufactured drama. It's all very normal
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
It is a very beautiful coin indeed.
It is hard to look at this and think of how much it costs. Like everyone i'm sure not used to paying this for a 1 ounce gold coin from the mint.
I really enjoy these coins in their original packaging.
I may just break down and grade this one quickly.Because it looks perfect.And I think it may be a winner so probably worth the hassle and expense hopefully to get a 70.
I do really enjoy them in the original packaging and hate grading these things but, it sure worked for my V75 AGE.
The COA is very cool looking.
It looks better and personal in the photos. Striking COA.
Well done.
Thanks for sharing, Raufus, sooooo stunning!
Most welcome, Miles!
It was really well done - even down to the OGP.
I think that its a really creative idea as well.
Glad that I got one.
So if the mint has four coins, and say there are 50 people on line, the mint's site allows all 50 to place one in their basket, yet only four people can take the next step to secure one.
It moved
I received the Silver Medal this afternoon.
The silver version is quite stunning in hand !
The packaging is also very nice, and the COA
is identical to the Au but in dim silver).
Certainly a winner . . .
(Couldn't afford the Au)
Basically, Yes.... Sometimes it is a stepwise process in the mornings. Keep it in the cart so the next day you are one step closer by refreshing from the cart and be ready to quickly click thru all pages to place order. I scored a second one on Saturday when approx. 30 popped up and I was a little slow but I prob had at least 30 seconds to complete. Much tougher now as the numbers are slim and no HHL and lots of competition.
I realize this is primarily focused on the gold Liberty and with good reason. But us silver lovers demand equal time:
Tim
this is the way (look of sunflower) they all need to be shot
makes me want one
If you're calling it BS, you are conflating it with a number that is meaningful. There's a lot of assuming that the number represents the total quantity left, and sometimes it does, but that is an assumption.
Well you're right about that. People here are overly concerned about the number and rely on it way too much.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Curses!!! Foiled again!! Couldn't complete the checkout. Don't know how many there were, but there was at least one...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
ATS = 16 ... gone in 12.5 seconds
Got 2 Silver Medals,
I lost track of time, when I looked up it was already over.
Successful transactions with forum members commoncents05, dmarks, Coinscratch, Bullsitter, DCW, TwoSides2aCoin, Namvet69 (facilitated for 3rd party), Tetromibi, ProfLizMay, MASSU2, MWallace, Bruce7789, Twobitcollector, 78saen, U1chicago, Rob41281
People are overly concerned about a lot of numbers. Even mintage, by itself, is a useless number but it's being used in multiple threads to justify speculation.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
You do realize that for less then $200 premium above the mint price, you can buy at least 5 of these at Pure for $4450 right now.
http://ProofCollection.Net
They must be a 69 or worse then?
No, they're probably flips that they don't even have in hand yet sold by the person running a bot that beat you to it this morning.
http://ProofCollection.Net
A $200 premium above the Mint price is a steal if these coins are in mint sealed boxes.
It may have beat this horse today, but this horse ain't dead yet!
I bought one on PURE yesterday. Good price
Can you though? Is that the bid, or the offer? If it's not the offer, it's not where you "can buy at least 5 of these." It's just where someone hopes to buy at least 5.
There were 5 on offer. The seller appears to have withdrawn. If I would have had the cash lying around to tie up in these I would have. Still, a standing bid at $4400 (or back at $4450) might just get a taker or two from flippers who want/need fast money.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Only from a dummy. The delta between that and completed eBay sales is far too rich for any self respecting flipper, regardless of how much safer Pure supposedly is.
Thursday 8-21, didn't buy one but watched from the sideline.
Friday 8-22, Mint listed 37 with HHL still in place. I watched it countdown to 10 and bought one.
Saturday 8-23, early morning release (73) with HHL lifted and got three.
All four arrived today and will be on their way to PCGS soon.
.
.About to go eat but got some quick, not so good shots.
.
Congratulations! Beautiful coins ⇈
Im now envious I only have one. Great opportunistic grab there, Bullsitter!
My PCGS profile
Random question - Why are these coins minted in NY but shipped from DFW?
The Mint doesn't run the website or fulfillment. Priority Fulfillment Services does. https://govtribe.com/vendors/priority-fulfillment-services-inc-dot-pfs-web-3rtq4
Because the Mint doesn't physically box coins and send them out to retail, one at a time. They go to a fulfillment warehouse in Dallas. That's why.
Same reason whatever you buy from Amazon that is made in China, and sold to you by a third party Chinese vendor, isn't shipped to you from a factory in China.
Wow.
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Thanks, Alpha.
So, the mint (either directly or indirectly) pays to move the coins to PFS's Dallas location where they are individually shipped from upon sale.
Extremely inefficient on the contractor's part but why should they care when the mint doesn't mind paying for it. Or maybe only anal retentive CPAs like me complain about the marginal cost between shipping the coins 50-100 miles to a closer fulfillment house versus 1,500 miles to DFW.
seems like a good idea to stop selling here
If you called CS, they don't have any inside information.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
There's more to it than just shipping the product. The contract covers a lot:
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/mint-seeking-new-vendor-for-ordering-and-fulfillment
Wow!!!!
Your hunch is correct. Once the return period is over the remaining coins will be up for sale.
Doubtful that the return period has any impact here. The mint knows these coins will sell out in a timely matter. They don't need to concern themselves with gaming the market.
http://ProofCollection.Net
doubt they press off another 4500. in 2023 with spot at $1800ish it was a different equation to $3400. again a polished 24K blank costs the USM probably what $2-300 to manufacture to the coin standard. so what person would say sure press off $15.3million in product to maybe sell 1000-2000 more. then melt back the remainder at a loss?
do they sell more. probably. not 4500.
Agreed. They just read the script.