@johnny010 said:
I see no correlation today between the hobby/business of coin collecting/selling and society moving away from cash. Pretty archaic to think coins will go the way of stamps. About the dumbest thing I've read in 10 years!
What's strange is that you can't see the signs and trajectory of the last 40 years. CoinWorld subscriptions peaked in the 1960's. Almost every kid had a Whitman folder and tried filling it up from circulation. I remember swapping Lincolns with a kid at school in the 70's.
The world of coins has lost the organic growth it once had, just like stamps did. I remember a Stamp Club at my school. When's the last time you saw that?
Sure, coins will always be around but it's going to be a market similar to stamps. Truly rare coins and classic coins will do well as affluent people continue to buy them. Everything else will be common junk sold in bulk.
We're never going back to the days when kids we're plugging holes in their Buffalo Nickel folder with VG coins, and riding their bike down to the local dealer to spend their allowance on that 31-s they've been dreaming about all summer.
Coin world subscriptions and Whitman albums have very little to do with today’s collecting environment. The shows are full, the auction houses and online avenues keep setting records and the market is strong. I get remembering how it used to be but times have changed.
Your comment has very little to do with my point.
Can anyone tell me the record for an MS63 1950-D nickel? I believe it was set in 1962.
The record for a VG 1901 Indian cent was also probably set 25 years ago. Same with just about any 1970s or 1980s proof sets.
The record for an 1804 dollar really doesn't move the needle on the collections of 95% of the market.
The inverted Jenny record was set in 2019. Didn't help the rest of the stamp market much.
@johnny010 said:
I see no correlation today between the hobby/business of coin collecting/selling and society moving away from cash. Pretty archaic to think coins will go the way of stamps. About the dumbest thing I've read in 10 years!
What's strange is that you can't see the signs and trajectory of the last 40 years. CoinWorld subscriptions peaked in the 1960's. Almost every kid had a Whitman folder and tried filling it up from circulation. I remember swapping Lincolns with a kid at school in the 70's.
The world of coins has lost the organic growth it once had, just like stamps did. I remember a Stamp Club at my school. When's the last time you saw that?
Sure, coins will always be around but it's going to be a market similar to stamps. Truly rare coins and classic coins will do well as affluent people continue to buy them. Everything else will be common junk sold in bulk.
We're never going back to the days when kids we're plugging holes in their Buffalo Nickel folder with VG coins, and riding their bike down to the local dealer to spend their allowance on that 31-s they've been dreaming about all summer.
Coin world subscriptions and Whitman albums have very little to do with today’s collecting environment. The shows are full, the auction houses and online avenues keep setting records and the market is strong. I get remembering how it used to be but times have changed.
Your comment has very little to do with my point.
Can anyone tell me the record for an MS63 1950-D nickel? I believe it was set in 1962.
The record for a VG 1901 Indian cent was also probably set 25 years ago. Same with just about any 1970s or 1980s proof sets.
The record for an 1804 dollar really doesn't move the needle on the collections of 95% of the market.
The inverted Jenny record was set in 2019. Didn't help the rest of the stamp market much.
And none of your points have anything to do with the longevity of the coin market. But please, go research circulated 1965 pennies.
The coin market is fine and will continue to be fine. RIP Whitman folders and yesteryear. All collectors who actually come here and post coins know the market is fine and will continue to be.
@Crypto said:
Sometimes I think this is a prolific hobby and sometimes I am reminded it isn’t and I notice that many sales go to people I know. There will always be a market for the blue chips but I question the future of vf Mercs, vg indians AU Morgan’s and the like. Without a robust 2way market of dealers buying up slop and wholesaling it around I suspect premiums above intrinsic value of otherwise common stuff might collapse burning the core of the hobby putting further pressure on the remaining dealers.
There will always be a hobby but the market could collapse quickly if dealers start starving.
I think this is very true. I also think it is already happening. Bid on things like average circ Indian cents and Buff nickels haven't moved much in 20 years. Even better date circulated (G, VG) copper has not followed the top of the market.
Other things like circ Barbers and Mercs have only moved up because of bullion. Most low grade common dates have no significant numismatic premium. Same has happened with pre-33 common dates, even in 63 and 64.
Isn’t that basically what happened to stamps? There is still stamp collectors just not a robust 2way market save for the best of the best because there are so few dealers. That makes collectors hesitant to do impulse buys and the bulk of the material has little value.
Coin guys lament investors and speculators but those coupled to copious amounts of dealers is what makes it so easy to get out of mistakes which encourages us to press forward. That’s what is at risk us losing. The hobby will be fine
@Crypto said:
Sometimes I think this is a prolific hobby and sometimes I am reminded it isn’t and I notice that many sales go to people I know. There will always be a market for the blue chips but I question the future of vf Mercs, vg indians AU Morgan’s and the like. Without a robust 2way market of dealers buying up slop and wholesaling it around I suspect premiums above intrinsic value of otherwise common stuff might collapse burning the core of the hobby putting further pressure on the remaining dealers.
There will always be a hobby but the market could collapse quickly if dealers start starving.
I think this is very true. I also think it is already happening. Bid on things like average circ Indian cents and Buff nickels haven't moved much in 20 years. Even better date circulated (G, VG) copper has not followed the top of the market.
Other things like circ Barbers and Mercs have only moved up because of bullion. Most low grade common dates have no significant numismatic premium. Same has happened with pre-33 common dates, even in 63 and 64.
Isn’t that basically what happened to stamps? There is still stamp collectors just not a robust 2way market save for the best of the best because there are so few dealers. That makes collectors hesitant to do impulse buys and the bulk of the material has little value.
Coin guys lament investors and speculators but those coupled to copious amounts of dealers is what makes it so easy to get out of mistakes which encourages us to press forward. That’s what is at risk us losing. The hobby will be fine
@johnny010 said:
I see no correlation today between the hobby/business of coin collecting/selling and society moving away from cash. Pretty archaic to think coins will go the way of stamps. About the dumbest thing I've read in 10 years!
What's strange is that you can't see the signs and trajectory of the last 40 years. CoinWorld subscriptions peaked in the 1960's. Almost every kid had a Whitman folder and tried filling it up from circulation. I remember swapping Lincolns with a kid at school in the 70's.
The world of coins has lost the organic growth it once had, just like stamps did. I remember a Stamp Club at my school. When's the last time you saw that?
Sure, coins will always be around but it's going to be a market similar to stamps. Truly rare coins and classic coins will do well as affluent people continue to buy them. Everything else will be common junk sold in bulk.
We're never going back to the days when kids we're plugging holes in their Buffalo Nickel folder with VG coins, and riding their bike down to the local dealer to spend their allowance on that 31-s they've been dreaming about all summer.
Coin world subscriptions and Whitman albums have very little to do with today’s collecting environment. The shows are full, the auction houses and online avenues keep setting records and the market is strong. I get remembering how it used to be but times have changed.
Your comment has very little to do with my point.
Can anyone tell me the record for an MS63 1950-D nickel? I believe it was set in 1962.
The record for a VG 1901 Indian cent was also probably set 25 years ago. Same with just about any 1970s or 1980s proof sets.
The record for an 1804 dollar really doesn't move the needle on the collections of 95% of the market.
The inverted Jenny record was set in 2019. Didn't help the rest of the stamp market much.
And none of your points have anything to do with the longevity of the coin market. But please, go research circulated 1965 pennies.
The coin market is fine and will continue to be fine. RIP Whitman folders and yesteryear. All collectors who actually come here and post coins know the market is fine and will continue to be.
You are only looking at the top of the coin market. That same sector in the stamp market is also doing fine. If that's the only market you care about, that's fine. But the "market" doesn't keep setting "records". The top of the market does.
"All" collectors do not know the market is fine and will continue to be as evidenced by multiple people on this thread. You are willfully dismissing us just as you dismiss the lower segments of the coin market
@johnny010 said:
I see no correlation today between the hobby/business of coin collecting/selling and society moving away from cash. Pretty archaic to think coins will go the way of stamps. About the dumbest thing I've read in 10 years!
What's strange is that you can't see the signs and trajectory of the last 40 years. CoinWorld subscriptions peaked in the 1960's. Almost every kid had a Whitman folder and tried filling it up from circulation. I remember swapping Lincolns with a kid at school in the 70's.
The world of coins has lost the organic growth it once had, just like stamps did. I remember a Stamp Club at my school. When's the last time you saw that?
Sure, coins will always be around but it's going to be a market similar to stamps. Truly rare coins and classic coins will do well as affluent people continue to buy them. Everything else will be common junk sold in bulk.
We're never going back to the days when kids we're plugging holes in their Buffalo Nickel folder with VG coins, and riding their bike down to the local dealer to spend their allowance on that 31-s they've been dreaming about all summer.
Coin world subscriptions and Whitman albums have very little to do with today’s collecting environment. The shows are full, the auction houses and online avenues keep setting records and the market is strong. I get remembering how it used to be but times have changed.
Your comment has very little to do with my point.
Can anyone tell me the record for an MS63 1950-D nickel? I believe it was set in 1962.
The record for a VG 1901 Indian cent was also probably set 25 years ago. Same with just about any 1970s or 1980s proof sets.
The record for an 1804 dollar really doesn't move the needle on the collections of 95% of the market.
The inverted Jenny record was set in 2019. Didn't help the rest of the stamp market much.
And none of your points have anything to do with the longevity of the coin market. But please, go research circulated 1965 pennies.
The coin market is fine and will continue to be fine. RIP Whitman folders and yesteryear. All collectors who actually come here and post coins know the market is fine and will continue to be.
You are only looking at the top of the coin market. That same sector is the stamp market is also doing fine. If that's the only market you care about, that's fine. But the "market" doesn't keep setting "records". The top of the market does.
"All" collectors do not not the market is fine and will continue to be a evidenced by multiple people on this thread. You are willfully dismissing us just as you dismiss the lower segments of the coin market
@johnny010 said:
I see no correlation today between the hobby/business of coin collecting/selling and society moving away from cash. Pretty archaic to think coins will go the way of stamps. About the dumbest thing I've read in 10 years!
What's strange is that you can't see the signs and trajectory of the last 40 years. CoinWorld subscriptions peaked in the 1960's. Almost every kid had a Whitman folder and tried filling it up from circulation. I remember swapping Lincolns with a kid at school in the 70's.
The world of coins has lost the organic growth it once had, just like stamps did. I remember a Stamp Club at my school. When's the last time you saw that?
Sure, coins will always be around but it's going to be a market similar to stamps. Truly rare coins and classic coins will do well as affluent people continue to buy them. Everything else will be common junk sold in bulk.
We're never going back to the days when kids we're plugging holes in their Buffalo Nickel folder with VG coins, and riding their bike down to the local dealer to spend their allowance on that 31-s they've been dreaming about all summer.
Coin world subscriptions and Whitman albums have very little to do with today’s collecting environment. The shows are full, the auction houses and online avenues keep setting records and the market is strong. I get remembering how it used to be but times have changed.
Your comment has very little to do with my point.
Can anyone tell me the record for an MS63 1950-D nickel? I believe it was set in 1962.
The record for a VG 1901 Indian cent was also probably set 25 years ago. Same with just about any 1970s or 1980s proof sets.
The record for an 1804 dollar really doesn't move the needle on the collections of 95% of the market.
The inverted Jenny record was set in 2019. Didn't help the rest of the stamp market much.
And none of your points have anything to do with the longevity of the coin market. But please, go research circulated 1965 pennies.
The coin market is fine and will continue to be fine. RIP Whitman folders and yesteryear. All collectors who actually come here and post coins know the market is fine and will continue to be.
You are only looking at the top of the coin market. That same sector is the stamp market is also doing fine. If that's the only market you care about, that's fine. But the "market" doesn't keep setting "records". The top of the market does.
"All" collectors do not not the market is fine and will continue to be a evidenced by multiple people on this thread. You are willfully dismissing us just as you dismiss the lower segments of the coin market
Interesting. Had never heard that term before. Thanks.
@johnny010 said:
I see no correlation today between the hobby/business of coin collecting/selling and society moving away from cash. Pretty archaic to think coins will go the way of stamps. About the dumbest thing I've read in 10 years!
What's strange is that you can't see the signs and trajectory of the last 40 years. CoinWorld subscriptions peaked in the 1960's. Almost every kid had a Whitman folder and tried filling it up from circulation. I remember swapping Lincolns with a kid at school in the 70's.
The world of coins has lost the organic growth it once had, just like stamps did. I remember a Stamp Club at my school. When's the last time you saw that?
Sure, coins will always be around but it's going to be a market similar to stamps. Truly rare coins and classic coins will do well as affluent people continue to buy them. Everything else will be common junk sold in bulk.
We're never going back to the days when kids we're plugging holes in their Buffalo Nickel folder with VG coins, and riding their bike down to the local dealer to spend their allowance on that 31-s they've been dreaming about all summer.
Coin world subscriptions and Whitman albums have very little to do with today’s collecting environment. The shows are full, the auction houses and online avenues keep setting records and the market is strong. I get remembering how it used to be but times have changed.
Your comment has very little to do with my point.
Can anyone tell me the record for an MS63 1950-D nickel? I believe it was set in 1962.
The record for a VG 1901 Indian cent was also probably set 25 years ago. Same with just about any 1970s or 1980s proof sets.
The record for an 1804 dollar really doesn't move the needle on the collections of 95% of the market.
The inverted Jenny record was set in 2019. Didn't help the rest of the stamp market much.
And none of your points have anything to do with the longevity of the coin market. But please, go research circulated 1965 pennies.
The coin market is fine and will continue to be fine. RIP Whitman folders and yesteryear. All collectors who actually come here and post coins know the market is fine and will continue to be.
You are only looking at the top of the coin market. That same sector is the stamp market is also doing fine. If that's the only market you care about, that's fine. But the "market" doesn't keep setting "records". The top of the market does.
"All" collectors do not not the market is fine and will continue to be a evidenced by multiple people on this thread. You are willfully dismissing us just as you dismiss the lower segments of the coin market
Interesting. Had never heard that term before. Thanks.
Yeah, MBTI can be interesting. I was just guessing what type he might be based on his refusal to see any other point of view.
@Morgan13 said:
The appeal of a beautiful coin will always be in demand.
Rare high grade coins could drop in value but still be worth thousands of dollars. Some millions.
Coins have a huge following and I doubt that will ever change.
The appeal of a beautiful piece of porcelain will always be in demand.
Rare high grade porcelain could do in value but still be worth thousands of dollars. Some millions.
Porcelain has a huge following and I don't that will ever change.
So what are you trying to say?
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
A few thoughts:
If we think appreciating metals prices have not had a huge effect on collecting coins we are kidding ourselves.
Stamps although interesting and historically significant beautiful etc. do not cover as completely the historical and economic political scope of North American coinage.
There are hurdles approaching coin collecting popularity, not the least is the dwindling usage.
A hard asset is a store of value. Which would include both pursuits at the high end of the market.
@Morgan13 said:
The appeal of a beautiful coin will always be in demand.
Rare high grade coins could drop in value but still be worth thousands of dollars. Some millions.
Coins have a huge following and I doubt that will ever change.
The appeal of a beautiful piece of porcelain will always be in demand.
Rare high grade porcelain could do in value but still be worth thousands of dollars. Some millions.
Porcelain has a huge following and I don't that will ever change.
So what are you trying to say?
That collectors of anything would say the same thing. That is an opinion born of love with no actual data or facts offered to support it.
And the stamp people were wrong. And the glass people were wrong. And the porcelain people were wrong.
@fathom said:
Passionate coin collectors here awesome.
A few thoughts:
If we think appreciating metals prices have not had a huge effect on collecting coins we are kidding ourselves.
Stamps although interesting and historically significant beautiful etc. do not cover as completely the historical and economic political scope of North American coinage.
There are hurdles approaching coin collecting popularity, not the least is the dwindling usage.
A hard asset is a store of value. Which would include both pursuits at the high end of the market.
I agree with some of this. But I don't know how you can say that stamps don't cover as completely the history. There is far more history on stamps than on coins.
@fathom said:
Passionate coin collectors here awesome.
A few thoughts:
If we think appreciating metals prices have not had a huge effect on collecting coins we are kidding ourselves.
Stamps although interesting and historically significant beautiful etc. do not cover as completely the historical and economic political scope of North American coinage.
There are hurdles approaching coin collecting popularity, not the least is the dwindling usage.
A hard asset is a store of value. Which would include both pursuits at the high end of the market.
I agree with some of this. But I don't know how you can say that stamps don't cover as completely the history. There is far more history on stamps than on coins.
From my perspective when you consider the circulating coinage that made up much of commerce going back to the English, Soanish, French, European colonial settlements. As this inspired our monies and commerce etc. The individual colonial State issues, Countless examples of pre and post 1776 issues for example Franklin's Fugios with the slogan Mind Your Business just the fact that coinage circulated freely and ubiquitously throughout the geography. Westward expansion the gold rushes precious metal content and political influences of etc.
Notwithstanding the Stamp Act and as a fact postage and postal issues were as important as anything. I believe postal vehicles have the right if way over police. You are correct the stamps are very embedded in our history from my perspective not quite as much.
@SethChandler said:
The hobby is alive and well. Especially at the younger end.
Typical coin show bourse. A bunch of middle aged guys deciding what fast food to eat for lunch.
And the few good sport wives dragged along. That said who do we think is free on a Thursday or Friday morning to attend shows couple with the money to do something while there? Old retired people, I think you will find the younger demographics skew more towards digital engagement (auctions, forums and sites).
This brings up a different question about conventions and their place in the market. We have see them push more toward auction venues/dealer wholesale and away from weekend retail focuses. All that said youth engagement should be a priority. Look at Pokémon card and how that grows and feeds into the more mature sports cards markets. Cards came back form the brink in the late 90s doldrums, anything is possible.
While stamps can be interesting collectibles, they don’t come close to the lasting value of collector coins. Coins have been cherished for thousands of years because of their history, craftsmanship, and rarity. Unlike paper or stamps, coins are durable and can withstand the test of time, preserving their value for generations. As long as people seek tangible assets and artifacts of history, there will always be a market for collector coins. They’re not just collectibles, they’re enduring symbols of culture and wealth that will continue to hold their significance long into the future.
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@coinshop said:
While stamps can be interesting collectibles, they don’t come close to the lasting value of collector coins. Coins have been cherished for thousands of years because of their history, craftsmanship, and rarity. Unlike paper or stamps, coins are durable and can withstand the test of time, preserving their value for generations. As long as people seek tangible assets and artifacts of history, there will always be a market for collector coins. They’re not just collectibles, they’re enduring symbols of culture and wealth that will continue to hold their significance long into the future.
Coins have not been "cherished" for thousands of years. They've been used and melted for 2700 years. They've only been collected at all since the Renaissance and only widely collected in the last 150 years or so.
With respect to antique porcelain maintaining or growing its market, that is
decidedly UNTRUE. Witness the very recent Hakes York PA auction of a significant portion of the late highly respected Rex Stark’s collection of early American historical porcelain and ceramic items. Much of it went far below Rex’s cost , going back decades. True, Rex was a market maker for years and his passing removed a major market stimulant. My recent discussion with other advanced collectors of this field, Tiffany lamps and the like reflected the same. With the exception of truly great and unique specimens, the market is way off due to sophisticated collectors dying off or flooding the market with their collections due to advancing age.
Let’s face it. The basics for collecting our fields is a love and appreciation for history and aesthetics, which we gained in our earlier education. Just as importantly, pride in our Country ‘s history & future. This is simply not taught in schools anymore. Even in college and military schools like West Point where education is now increasingly “ influenced “ by the “ prejudiced “ influence of the Executive branch of the US Govt.
The elimination of the penny, the expensive prices & ill- conceived designs of the Mint coinage , the increasingly high prices of high grade coins coupled with the “ necessity “ for slabbing, the rejection of respectable “ raw “ coinage, the insane differences in market value between minute differences in high mint slab grades ( which cannot be visibly differentiated by 95 % of dealers & collectors ) - this all does not bode well for Numismatics in the next decade.
I’ve had my fun, It’s just not fun or affordable anymore. I fear for our hobby’s viability.
@numis1652 said:
With respect to antique porcelain maintaining or growing its market, that is
decidedly UNTRUE. Witness the very recent Hakes York PA auction of a significant portion of the late highly respected Rex Stark’s collection of early American historical porcelain and ceramic items. Much of it went far below Rex’s cost , going back decades. True, Rex was a market maker for years and his passing removed a major market stimulant. My recent discussion with other advanced collectors of this field, Tiffany lamps and the like reflected the same. With the exception of truly great and unique specimens, the market is way off due to sophisticated collectors dying off or flooding the market with their collections due to advancing age.
Let’s face it. The basics for collecting our fields is a love and appreciation for history and aesthetics, which we gained in our earlier education. Just as importantly, pride in our Country ‘s history & future. This is simply not taught in schools anymore. Even in college and military schools like West Point where education is now increasingly “ influenced “ by the “ prejudiced “ influence of the Executive branch of the US Govt.
The elimination of the penny, the expensive prices & ill- conceived designs of the Mint coinage , the increasingly high prices of high grade coins coupled with the “ necessity “ for slabbing, the rejection of respectable “ raw “ coinage, the insane differences in market value between minute differences in high mint slab grades ( which cannot be visibly differentiated by 95 % of dealers & collectors ) - this all does not bode well for Numismatics in the next decade.
I’ve had my fun, It’s just not fun or affordable anymore. I fear for our hobby’s viability.
@numis1652 said:
With respect to antique porcelain maintaining or growing its market, that is
decidedly UNTRUE. Witness the very recent Hakes York PA auction of a significant portion of the late highly respected Rex Stark’s collection of early American historical porcelain and ceramic items. Much of it went far below Rex’s cost , going back decades. True, Rex was a market maker for years and his passing removed a major market stimulant. My recent discussion with other advanced collectors of this field, Tiffany lamps and the like reflected the same. With the exception of truly great and unique specimens, the market is way off due to sophisticated collectors dying off or flooding the market with their collections due to advancing age.
Let’s face it. The basics for collecting our fields is a love and appreciation for history and aesthetics, which we gained in our earlier education. Just as importantly, pride in our Country ‘s history & future. This is simply not taught in schools anymore. Even in college and military schools like West Point where education is now increasingly “ influenced “ by the “ prejudiced “ influence of the Executive branch of the US Govt.
The elimination of the penny, the expensive prices & ill- conceived designs of the Mint coinage , the increasingly high prices of high grade coins coupled with the “ necessity “ for slabbing, the rejection of respectable “ raw “ coinage, the insane differences in market value between minute differences in high mint slab grades ( which cannot be visibly differentiated by 95 % of dealers & collectors ) - this all does not bode well for Numismatics in the next decade.
I’ve had my fun, It’s just not fun or affordable anymore. I fear for our hobby’s viability.
@numis1652 said:
With respect to antique porcelain maintaining or growing its market, that is
decidedly UNTRUE. Witness the very recent Hakes York PA auction of a significant portion of the late highly respected Rex Stark’s collection of early American historical porcelain and ceramic items. Much of it went far below Rex’s cost , going back decades. True, Rex was a market maker for years and his passing removed a major market stimulant. My recent discussion with other advanced collectors of this field, Tiffany lamps and the like reflected the same. With the exception of truly great and unique specimens, the market is way off due to sophisticated collectors dying off or flooding the market with their collections due to advancing age.
Let’s face it. The basics for collecting our fields is a love and appreciation for history and aesthetics, which we gained in our earlier education. Just as importantly, pride in our Country ‘s history & future. This is simply not taught in schools anymore. Even in college and military schools like West Point where education is now increasingly “ influenced “ by the “ prejudiced “ influence of the Executive branch of the US Govt.
The elimination of the penny, the expensive prices & ill- conceived designs of the Mint coinage , the increasingly high prices of high grade coins coupled with the “ necessity “ for slabbing, the rejection of respectable “ raw “ coinage, the insane differences in market value between minute differences in high mint slab grades ( which cannot be visibly differentiated by 95 % of dealers & collectors ) - this all does not bode well for Numismatics in the next decade.
I’ve had my fun, It’s just not fun or affordable anymore. I fear for our hobby’s viability.
I just read an article on the Monterey/Pebble Beach automobile auction. The numbers are down in total sales and average price. It was noted that there is a large ongoing shift from 1960's cars to newer cars as the older generation moves on and folks who inherit valuable "classic" cars dump them as fast as possible. The "younger" folks are more interested in the cars they lusted after in their formative years, not what boomers desired. A 40 year old has nowhere near the attachment to a 1965 Shelby Mustang that a 75 year old does.
Tastes change. Younger folks, in general, don't give a crap about china/porcelain and knick knacks. They also don't use coins. I won't be surprised if in 50 years the landscape of collecting has vastly changed. The good stuff is always be desired, but mid level stuff could really take a hit.
Yes but youth won't go for the modern mint crap. That's for sure. Not like a new Tesla or new car
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@SimonW said:
How much does it matter? Are you collecting coins? If so, are you only doing it because other people do?
When I've read these threads, it always comes across to me that the primary concern being expressed is future resale. Most collectors don't actually care otherwise.
@SimonW said:
How much does it matter? Are you collecting coins? If so, are you only doing it because other people do?
When I've read these threads, it always comes across to me that the primary concern being expressed is future resale. Most collectors don't actually care otherwise.
Yes, that's it in a nutshell.
I don't care if coin collecting diminishes because I consider hobby costs as sunk costs. But there are those that like to use the "I word". For them, it matters.
It won''t ever diminish, it will be the same for thousands more years. What about the old guys who died during the 1600's? There were new old guys that collected!
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@coinshop said:
It won''t ever diminish, it will be the same for thousands more years. What about the old guys who died during the 1600's? There were new old guys that collected!
There were like 30 people in the 1600s who collected..
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Best thing to do, keep youtubing and spreading the positive aspects. The coins related to precious metals are better. I wouldn't be buying nickels or even copper for high prices.
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No don’t believe the card dealers argument nor would waste my time arguing with one or with some other player. I believe there will be many new players coming into RCI as time goes on.
Due to AI technology there may be self grading / auto pricing (real time) auto updated pops smart holders down the line. In addition as world continues opening up (CDN / CPG) many will see how scarce many those issues are - especially investors chasing pieces they feel undervalued vs US.
By the same token, would anyone care to collect fine art in the future? I mean, we have plenty of ways to replace 2D images that people create with brushes. Why keep those around?
Hobbies and collections will always be a thing, what, how and when changes over time. It’s not like all coins would become worthless in the span of a few days, even if the market dried. Some coins are too culturally valuable to not be in museums and such.
@crazyhounddog said:
This hobby is here to stay. It’s been the hobby of kings and will always be popular.
They also used to call stamps the hobby of kings. I guess we ran out of kings
The sport of kings is horseracing which is down about 50% from 2000. Many things relating to kings could be seen as on the decline...and we will not discuss.....nevermind.
There are a lot of people here and other places purchasing online that do not show up at clubs. I think the coin market will have strength for some time.
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Can anyone tell me the record for an MS63 1950-D nickel? I believe it was set in 1962.
The record for a VG 1901 Indian cent was also probably set 25 years ago. Same with just about any 1970s or 1980s proof sets.
The record for an 1804 dollar really doesn't move the needle on the collections of 95% of the market.
The inverted Jenny record was set in 2019. Didn't help the rest of the stamp market much.
And none of your points have anything to do with the longevity of the coin market. But please, go research circulated 1965 pennies.
The coin market is fine and will continue to be fine. RIP Whitman folders and yesteryear. All collectors who actually come here and post coins know the market is fine and will continue to be.
Isn’t that basically what happened to stamps? There is still stamp collectors just not a robust 2way market save for the best of the best because there are so few dealers. That makes collectors hesitant to do impulse buys and the bulk of the material has little value.
Coin guys lament investors and speculators but those coupled to copious amounts of dealers is what makes it so easy to get out of mistakes which encourages us to press forward. That’s what is at risk us losing. The hobby will be fine
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Pretty much
You are only looking at the top of the coin market. That same sector in the stamp market is also doing fine. If that's the only market you care about, that's fine. But the "market" doesn't keep setting "records". The top of the market does.
"All" collectors do not know the market is fine and will continue to be as evidenced by multiple people on this thread. You are willfully dismissing us just as you dismiss the lower segments of the coin market
Interesting. Had never heard that term before. Thanks.
Yeah, MBTI can be interesting. I was just guessing what type he might be based on his refusal to see any other point of view.
On another tangent, will the sport of collecting holders rather than the coins inside survive?
So what are you trying to say?
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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Passionate coin collectors here awesome.
A few thoughts:
If we think appreciating metals prices have not had a huge effect on collecting coins we are kidding ourselves.
Stamps although interesting and historically significant beautiful etc. do not cover as completely the historical and economic political scope of North American coinage.
There are hurdles approaching coin collecting popularity, not the least is the dwindling usage.
A hard asset is a store of value. Which would include both pursuits at the high end of the market.
That collectors of anything would say the same thing. That is an opinion born of love with no actual data or facts offered to support it.
And the stamp people were wrong. And the glass people were wrong. And the porcelain people were wrong.
I agree with some of this. But I don't know how you can say that stamps don't cover as completely the history. There is far more history on stamps than on coins.
From my perspective when you consider the circulating coinage that made up much of commerce going back to the English, Soanish, French, European colonial settlements. As this inspired our monies and commerce etc. The individual colonial State issues, Countless examples of pre and post 1776 issues for example Franklin's Fugios with the slogan Mind Your Business just the fact that coinage circulated freely and ubiquitously throughout the geography. Westward expansion the gold rushes precious metal content and political influences of etc.
Notwithstanding the Stamp Act and as a fact postage and postal issues were as important as anything. I believe postal vehicles have the right if way over police. You are correct the stamps are very embedded in our history from my perspective not quite as much.
The hobby is alive and well. Especially at the younger end.
Well, I’m pretty sure that when I die, the hobby will be over for me.
To be honest it's doing to well. Prices are getting stupid.
Typical coin show bourse. A bunch of middle aged guys deciding what fast food to eat for lunch.
And the few good sport wives dragged along. That said who do we think is free on a Thursday or Friday morning to attend shows couple with the money to do something while there? Old retired people, I think you will find the younger demographics skew more towards digital engagement (auctions, forums and sites).
This brings up a different question about conventions and their place in the market. We have see them push more toward auction venues/dealer wholesale and away from weekend retail focuses. All that said youth engagement should be a priority. Look at Pokémon card and how that grows and feeds into the more mature sports cards markets. Cards came back form the brink in the late 90s doldrums, anything is possible.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
While stamps can be interesting collectibles, they don’t come close to the lasting value of collector coins. Coins have been cherished for thousands of years because of their history, craftsmanship, and rarity. Unlike paper or stamps, coins are durable and can withstand the test of time, preserving their value for generations. As long as people seek tangible assets and artifacts of history, there will always be a market for collector coins. They’re not just collectibles, they’re enduring symbols of culture and wealth that will continue to hold their significance long into the future.
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In some segments... circ Mercs are still basically bullion. Circ Indian cents have been a buck or two for 20 years. Etc.
Coins have not been "cherished" for thousands of years. They've been used and melted for 2700 years. They've only been collected at all since the Renaissance and only widely collected in the last 150 years or so.
Not if you take it with you. Then you are the Tutankhamen of 2525.
With respect to antique porcelain maintaining or growing its market, that is
decidedly UNTRUE. Witness the very recent Hakes York PA auction of a significant portion of the late highly respected Rex Stark’s collection of early American historical porcelain and ceramic items. Much of it went far below Rex’s cost , going back decades. True, Rex was a market maker for years and his passing removed a major market stimulant. My recent discussion with other advanced collectors of this field, Tiffany lamps and the like reflected the same. With the exception of truly great and unique specimens, the market is way off due to sophisticated collectors dying off or flooding the market with their collections due to advancing age.
Let’s face it. The basics for collecting our fields is a love and appreciation for history and aesthetics, which we gained in our earlier education. Just as importantly, pride in our Country ‘s history & future. This is simply not taught in schools anymore. Even in college and military schools like West Point where education is now increasingly “ influenced “ by the “ prejudiced “ influence of the Executive branch of the US Govt.
The elimination of the penny, the expensive prices & ill- conceived designs of the Mint coinage , the increasingly high prices of high grade coins coupled with the “ necessity “ for slabbing, the rejection of respectable “ raw “ coinage, the insane differences in market value between minute differences in high mint slab grades ( which cannot be visibly differentiated by 95 % of dealers & collectors ) - this all does not bode well for Numismatics in the next decade.
I’ve had my fun, It’s just not fun or affordable anymore. I fear for our hobby’s viability.
Not me. I plan to stick around long after.
I think you missed the sarcasm
My bad. I thought you loved fancy toilets.
I just read an article on the Monterey/Pebble Beach automobile auction. The numbers are down in total sales and average price. It was noted that there is a large ongoing shift from 1960's cars to newer cars as the older generation moves on and folks who inherit valuable "classic" cars dump them as fast as possible. The "younger" folks are more interested in the cars they lusted after in their formative years, not what boomers desired. A 40 year old has nowhere near the attachment to a 1965 Shelby Mustang that a 75 year old does.
Tastes change. Younger folks, in general, don't give a crap about china/porcelain and knick knacks. They also don't use coins. I won't be surprised if in 50 years the landscape of collecting has vastly changed. The good stuff is always be desired, but mid level stuff could really take a hit.
Yes but youth won't go for the modern mint crap. That's for sure. Not like a new Tesla or new car
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How much does it matter? Are you collecting coins? If so, are you only doing it because other people do?
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Coin collecting has forever skewed towards …. older men.
But that doesn’t mean the hobby will die with them - Yet.
No worries, the huge population of older boomers won’t peak until 2027!
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
When I've read these threads, it always comes across to me that the primary concern being expressed is future resale. Most collectors don't actually care otherwise.
Yes, that's it in a nutshell.
I don't care if coin collecting diminishes because I consider hobby costs as sunk costs. But there are those that like to use the "I word". For them, it matters.
It won''t ever diminish, it will be the same for thousands more years. What about the old guys who died during the 1600's? There were new old guys that collected!
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This hobby is here to stay. It’s been the hobby of kings and will always be popular.
They also used to call stamps the hobby of kings. I guess we ran out of kings
There were like 30 people in the 1600s who collected..
Surf fishing is the hobby of kings now.
30? Only? It has grown a lot since then!
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Best thing to do, keep youtubing and spreading the positive aspects. The coins related to precious metals are better. I wouldn't be buying nickels or even copper for high prices.
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No don’t believe the card dealers argument nor would waste my time arguing with one or with some other player. I believe there will be many new players coming into RCI as time goes on.
Due to AI technology there may be self grading / auto pricing (real time) auto updated pops smart holders down the line. In addition as world continues opening up (CDN / CPG) many will see how scarce many those issues are - especially investors chasing pieces they feel undervalued vs US.
By the same token, would anyone care to collect fine art in the future? I mean, we have plenty of ways to replace 2D images that people create with brushes. Why keep those around?
Hobbies and collections will always be a thing, what, how and when changes over time. It’s not like all coins would become worthless in the span of a few days, even if the market dried. Some coins are too culturally valuable to not be in museums and such.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
The sport of kings is horseracing which is down about 50% from 2000. Many things relating to kings could be seen as on the decline...and we will not discuss.....nevermind.
There are a lot of people here and other places purchasing online that do not show up at clubs. I think the coin market will have strength for some time.