From CNBC:
U.S. gold futures surged to a record on Friday after a report that Washington has imposed tariffs on imports of 1-kg bullion bars, widening the spread between New York futures and spot prices.
December U.S. gold futures were up 0.7% to $3,476.70, after hitting a record $3,534.10. Spot gold was down 0.3% at $3,386.63 per ounce. Bullion is on track for a second straight weekly gain, up 0.7% so far this week.
The futures-spot spread widened to more than $100 after the Financial Times reported that the United States had imposed tariffs on imports of 1-kg gold bars, citing a July 31 Customs and Border Protection letter.
The letter said 1-kg and 100-ounce gold bars should be classified under a customs code subject to higher duties.
“Given the volatility of U.S. trade-related decision-making, it is difficult to make longer-term predictions, but assuming a scenario in which tariffs remain in place ... one would expect spot prices to be affected and to rise, narrowing the spread relative to the futures,” said Ricardo Evangelista, senior analyst at ActivTrades.
Switzerland is the world’s largest gold refining hub and the major exporter to the United States
@MilesWaits said:
From CNBC:
U.S. gold futures surged to a record on Friday after a report that Washington has imposed tariffs on imports of 1-kg bullion bars, widening the spread between New York futures and spot prices.
December U.S. gold futures were up 0.7% to $3,476.70, after hitting a record $3,534.10. Spot gold was down 0.3% at $3,386.63 per ounce. Bullion is on track for a second straight weekly gain, up 0.7% so far this week.
The futures-spot spread widened to more than $100 after the Financial Times reported that the United States had imposed tariffs on imports of 1-kg gold bars, citing a July 31 Customs and Border Protection letter.
The letter said 1-kg and 100-ounce gold bars should be classified under a customs code subject to higher duties.
“Given the volatility of U.S. trade-related decision-making, it is difficult to make longer-term predictions, but assuming a scenario in which tariffs remain in place ... one would expect spot prices to be affected and to rise, narrowing the spread relative to the futures,” said Ricardo Evangelista, senior analyst at ActivTrades.
Switzerland is the world’s largest gold refining hub and the major exporter to the United States
It's coincidental. The chart was ready to pop already.
Love both sides. I limit my 21st century type to coins intended for circulation so as not to be overwhelmed. However, I may make an exception in this case as I did with the 2024 Flowing Hair.
@adzeesh said:
ATS 5900, are they taking the superman approach and starting with half? not sure what the strategy is behind that.
The gold bubble will be high when these go on sale. They know smart people will think twice about buying at the high price so all tricks are on to HYPE sales. Unless a quick flip materializes for these or got to have it demand occurs the gold melt value will be a loss when the big price crash occurs.
Releases at the ANA Worlds Fair of Money
The Mint will release the following three products during the week, with limited quantities available for purchase at Booth 433:
2025 Laser Engraved American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin – W (25EALE)
American Liberty 2025 High Relief Gold Coin – W (25DA)
U.S. MINT PRESS RELEASE
2025 American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin and 2025 American Liberty Silver Medal Available on August 21
WASHINGTON, Aug. 14, 2025 — The United States Mint (Mint) will begin accepting orders for the 2025 American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin™ and the 2025 American Liberty Silver Medal™ on Thursday, August 21 at noon EDT.
The American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin and Silver Medal Program celebrates modern interpretations of American liberty, exploring the theme beyond classical portraits of allegorical “Liberty.” The 2025 coin and medal offer a different interpretation—a bold representation of the stewardship required to preserve American liberty.
The obverse (heads) design features a sunflower and a bee, representing the stewardship necessary to maintain liberty. Inscriptions are “LIBERTY,” “2025,” and “IN GOD WE TRUST.”
The reverse (tails) design depicts an energetic and swirling depiction of an eagle. The inscription on the silver medal is “UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.” The gold coin includes “100 DOLLARS,” “1 OZ.,” “.9999 FINE GOLD,” and “E PLURIBUS UNUM.”
The obverse and reverse designs were created by Artistic Infusion Program Designer Christopher Polentz. The obverse design was sculpted by Mint Medallic Artist John P. McGraw, and the reverse design was sculpted by Mint Medallic Artist Eric David Custer.
Produced at the Mint's West Point facility, each American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin contains one ounce of 99.99% fine gold and has a reeded edge. The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales.
Looks like HHL liftoff after 24 hours.
Back up the truck. 😁
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to. With Superman, additional inventory was loaded shortly after the first batch was sold. Everything was loaded all at once for Sac.
As I said above, I wouldn't even think about it until shortly before noon next Thursday. If it's still around 5K then, I'd be concerned that something is up.
Otherwise, based on the all-time high price and the fact that prior versions took many days to sell out, in addition to how aggressive they have been lately in purging ineligible orders, I'd be fairly confident that any of us will have ample opportunity to obtain 1 out of ~10K.
Either on 8/21, or on any of the days after, when it can be reasonably expected that dozens or hundreds will be made available each day until the HHL is lifted.
7500 Sacs were placed on sale on 7/31. At around half the price of this coin.
It has gone Unavailable every day since. And yet, anyone who hasn't already bought one and wants one has been able to get one.
Every single day. Including today.
No reason to think the same won't happen here. So absolutely no reason to hold back stock at 12:00 noon on Day One.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
It is a publicly available webpage, and we are allowed to access it. There is no hidden code, lol.
When someone keeps hearing(or spouting off) the same thing over and over again - they tend to believe it after awhile, even if untrue.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
Exactly this...
Go look at the issues with unlimited mintages. There is still an ATS number which is the actual number AVAILABLE to sell. If they Mint more they add them to the number.
They are not going to sell coins they don't have that will obligate them to make them even if they don't have the time or inclination.
I don't know why anyone thinks this is anything but an HONEST inventory number. You're looking at the HTML code for the actual sale page.
Ive only collected 2 series from the start without missing any issues: the ATB 5 oz silver & the gold buffs. I was already into collecting when they started & was a fun, and turns out profitable (thus far, though not selling) way to get some gold & silver.
Since I was already buying all the gold buffs since 2006 I didn't bother w this series. I really wish I had.
Obviously, gold has gotten much higher by the time these started & the premium to spot is high, but it would be a neat series to have collected from the start. They'd look very cool together as a set. Oh well, that ship has sailed.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
Why? Because it's HTML code that they simply either chose not to protect from public view, or they simply don't know how.
If they wanted to publish it, it would be on the product page, right next to the HHL. That's why. When they are no longer available for sale, they manage to let you know, without having you place an order and have it sit in their system, unfilled, forever.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
Exactly this...
Go look at the issues with unlimited mintages. There is still an ATS number which is the actual number AVAILABLE to sell. If they Mint more they add them to the number.
They are not going to sell coins they don't have that will obligate them to make them even if they don't have the time or inclination.
I don't know why anyone thinks this is anything but an HONEST inventory number. You're looking at the HTML code for the actual sale page.
Why is because when it counts down to 0, and then immediately appears with several thousand more, it is anything but "an HONEST inventory number." In fact, it is nothing more than the subset of the total inventory that has been loaded into the online system to be made available for sale to the public at any given point in time.
Superman went from 5K to 0 in less than 2 hours on release day, and then back up to 5K less than an hour later. They didn't produce the additional 5K in that time, and then add them to "HONEST inventory." Because they hadn't yet produced any at all.
They simply first loaded 5K into the system, and then loaded an additional 5K when the first 5K sold through. The first 5K was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than an arbitrary subset of 10K that they chose to load into the system at launch. That's why I happen to think "this is anything but an HONEST inventory number." YMMV.
@Raufus said:
Ive only collected 2 series from the start without missing any issues.
Obviously, gold has gotten much higher by the time these started & the premium to spot is high, but it would be a neat series to have collected from the start. They'd look very cool together as a set. Oh well, that ship has sailed.
Has anyone bought all of these from the start?
The American Liberty Gold series started in 2015 and is minted every two years...I also thought this would be a great series to have collected from the start, I bought the first two, but didn't like the look of the 3rd one, when I finally decided to buy it, it was sold out. Then the Mustang came out in 2021, but it was too expensive at the time, so I didn't get that one either. I did like the BristleCone Pine, so got one of those. And now the new Sunflower Coin made the Mustang from '21 look affordable in hindsight. So buying this series from the start...3 out of 6...not great.
i don’t own any but like the 23 and 25 designs the best. The bronco is alright but definitely can’t justify it now. You can still find decent deals on the 15-19 though.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
Exactly this...
Go look at the issues with unlimited mintages. There is still an ATS number which is the actual number AVAILABLE to sell. If they Mint more they add them to the number.
They are not going to sell coins they don't have that will obligate them to make them even if they don't have the time or inclination.
I don't know why anyone thinks this is anything but an HONEST inventory number. You're looking at the HTML code for the actual sale page.
Why is because when it counts down to 0, and then immediately appears with several thousand more, it is anything but "an HONEST inventory number." In fact, it is nothing more than the subset of the total inventory that has been loaded into the online system to be made available for sale to the public at any given point in time.
Superman went from 5K to 0 in less than 2 hours on release day, and then back up to 5K less than an hour later. They didn't produce the additional 5K in that time, and then add them to "HONEST inventory." Because they hadn't yet produced any at all.
They simply first loaded 5K into the system, and then loaded an additional 5K when the first 5K sold through. The first 5K was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than an arbitrary subset of 10K that they chose to load into the system at launch. That's why I happen to think "this is anything but an HONEST inventory number." YMMV.
They don't have to make them to commit to making them, especially on a pre-sale.
ATS is quite literally what it says. It is not "mintage".
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
Exactly this...
Go look at the issues with unlimited mintages. There is still an ATS number which is the actual number AVAILABLE to sell. If they Mint more they add them to the number.
They are not going to sell coins they don't have that will obligate them to make them even if they don't have the time or inclination.
I don't know why anyone thinks this is anything but an HONEST inventory number. You're looking at the HTML code for the actual sale page.
Why is because when it counts down to 0, and then immediately appears with several thousand more, it is anything but "an HONEST inventory number." In fact, it is nothing more than the subset of the total inventory that has been loaded into the online system to be made available for sale to the public at any given point in time.
Superman went from 5K to 0 in less than 2 hours on release day, and then back up to 5K less than an hour later. They didn't produce the additional 5K in that time, and then add them to "HONEST inventory." Because they hadn't yet produced any at all.
They simply first loaded 5K into the system, and then loaded an additional 5K when the first 5K sold through. The first 5K was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than an arbitrary subset of 10K that they chose to load into the system at launch. That's why I happen to think "this is anything but an HONEST inventory number." YMMV.
They don't have to make them to commit to making them, especially on a pre-sale.
ATS is quite literally what it says. It is not "mintage".
Understood. But it's not "an HONEST inventory number" when it counts down to 0 and then snaps back to several thousand several minutes later. Multiple times before final sell out. Not unless the Mint rushes out in the few minutes, mints the additional coins, and then promptly adds them to "HONEST inventory."
Having them sitting in the wings for days ahead of time, waiting for someone to arbitrarily add them to ATS, does not render the previously loaded quantity a reflection of "HONEST inventory." It renders it nothing more than a random number made available for sale at a given point in time that is unrelated to actual inventory.
Or when Superman started out at 5K, steadily counted down to 0, and promptly went back to 5K an hour or so later. Whatever that was, "0" was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than the quantity loaded into a sales system until they decided to load more. In fact, every number from the first 5K down to 0 was 5K short of the "HONEST inventory number."
Nothing had yet been minted, but a maximum mintage of 10K had been announced. Whatever games they played with FH gold and silver, and whatever games they might choose to play in the future with respect to short minting in spite of demand, you can rest assured that with a licensing deal with a partner that has no interest in Mint games or secondary market values down the road, if 10K is announced as a maximum mintage and can be sold, 10K will be minted and sold.
As was shown when the missing 5K was loaded immediately after the first 5K, anything but "HONEST inventory," sold through. Sitting unsold ever since after canceled orders. In fact, as of 2 days ago, it was reported in the Superman thread that the ATS number was around 2500 less than the sales on the official Mint report from earlier in the week indicated it should be. It is not "an HONEST inventory number," because 2500 gold Superman coins that have not yet shipped, if they were even made, did not simply disappear, and is sure to be revised at some point in the future, if it has not already been updated.
You can't bring yourself to ever concede a point, can you?
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
Exactly this...
Go look at the issues with unlimited mintages. There is still an ATS number which is the actual number AVAILABLE to sell. If they Mint more they add them to the number.
They are not going to sell coins they don't have that will obligate them to make them even if they don't have the time or inclination.
I don't know why anyone thinks this is anything but an HONEST inventory number. You're looking at the HTML code for the actual sale page.
Why is because when it counts down to 0, and then immediately appears with several thousand more, it is anything but "an HONEST inventory number." In fact, it is nothing more than the subset of the total inventory that has been loaded into the online system to be made available for sale to the public at any given point in time.
Superman went from 5K to 0 in less than 2 hours on release day, and then back up to 5K less than an hour later. They didn't produce the additional 5K in that time, and then add them to "HONEST inventory." Because they hadn't yet produced any at all.
They simply first loaded 5K into the system, and then loaded an additional 5K when the first 5K sold through. The first 5K was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than an arbitrary subset of 10K that they chose to load into the system at launch. That's why I happen to think "this is anything but an HONEST inventory number." YMMV.
They don't have to make them to commit to making them, especially on a pre-sale.
ATS is quite literally what it says. It is not "mintage".
Understood. But it's not "an HONEST inventory number" when it counts down to 0 and then snaps back to several thousand several minutes later. Multiple times before final sell out. Not unless the Mint rushes out in the few minutes, mints the additional coins, and then promptly adds them to "HONEST inventory."
Having them sitting in the wings for days ahead of time, waiting for someone to arbitrarily add them to ATS, does not render the previously loaded quantity a reflection of "HONEST inventory." It renders it nothing more than a random number made available for sale at a given point in time that is unrelated to actual inventory.
Or when Superman started out at 5K, steadily counted down to 0, and promptly went back to 5K an hour or so later. Whatever that was, "0" was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than the quantity loaded into a sales system until they decided to load more. In fact, every number from the first 5K down to 0 was 5K short of the "HONEST inventory number."
Nothing had yet been minted, but a maximum mintage of 10K had been announced. Whatever games they played with FH gold and silver, and whatever games they might choose to play in the future with respect to short minting in spite of demand, you can rest assured that with a licensing deal with a partner that has no interest in Mint games or secondary market values down the road, if 10K is announced as a maximum mintage and can be sold, 10K will be minted and sold.
As was shown when the missing 5K was loaded immediately after the first 5K, anything but "HONEST inventory," sold through. Sitting unsold ever since after canceled orders. In fact, as of 2 days ago, it was reported in the Superman thread that the ATS number was around 2500 less than the sales on the official Mint report from earlier in the week indicated it should be. It is not "an HONEST inventory number," because 2500gold Superman coins that have not yet shipped, if they were even made, did not simply disappear, and is sure to be revised at some point in the future, if it has not already been updated.
You can't bring yourself to ever concede a point, can you?
Concede what point? The number is the number. You're the one who wants it to be different number.
EVERY BUSINESS in the planet has a constantly changing inventory number. It goes up when you add items, either due to manufacture or purchase or return. It goes down as you sell them.
If a bakery showed 3 donuts left to sell but then made a batch and it jumped to 53, would you call them dishonest?
There's no point to concede. You're the one at odds with reality here because you want the number to be "mintage limit remaining" instead of "available to sell".
Comments
From CNBC:
U.S. gold futures surged to a record on Friday after a report that Washington has imposed tariffs on imports of 1-kg bullion bars, widening the spread between New York futures and spot prices.
December U.S. gold futures were up 0.7% to $3,476.70, after hitting a record $3,534.10. Spot gold was down 0.3% at $3,386.63 per ounce. Bullion is on track for a second straight weekly gain, up 0.7% so far this week.
The futures-spot spread widened to more than $100 after the Financial Times reported that the United States had imposed tariffs on imports of 1-kg gold bars, citing a July 31 Customs and Border Protection letter.
The letter said 1-kg and 100-ounce gold bars should be classified under a customs code subject to higher duties.
“Given the volatility of U.S. trade-related decision-making, it is difficult to make longer-term predictions, but assuming a scenario in which tariffs remain in place ... one would expect spot prices to be affected and to rise, narrowing the spread relative to the futures,” said Ricardo Evangelista, senior analyst at ActivTrades.
Switzerland is the world’s largest gold refining hub and the major exporter to the United States
It's coincidental. The chart was ready to pop already.
http://ProofCollection.Net
@MilesWaits
Be careful about saying anything was caused by Washington. The moderator might try to ban you for saying something political. 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
I'm usually down for a couple but the HHL is 1 for this issue.
Love both sides. I limit my 21st century type to coins intended for circulation so as not to be overwhelmed. However, I may make an exception in this case as I did with the 2024 Flowing Hair.
ATS 5900, are they taking the superman approach and starting with half? not sure what the strategy is behind that.
The gold bubble will be high when these go on sale. They know smart people will think twice about buying at the high price so all tricks are on to HYPE sales. Unless a quick flip materializes for these or got to have it demand occurs the gold melt value will be a loss when the big price crash occurs.
Releases at the ANA Worlds Fair of Money
The Mint will release the following three products during the week, with limited quantities available for purchase at Booth 433:
2025 Laser Engraved American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin – W (25EALE)
American Liberty 2025 High Relief Gold Coin – W (25DA)
American Liberty 2025 Silver Medal – P (25DB)
Mint sales for w/e 08/10/2025:
American Liberty 2025 24K Gold = 1147
American Liberty 2025 Silver Medal = 1672
Oops! Wrong thread.
Go to laser privy.
An ASE post on a Liberty Gold thread.
Ok.
U.S. MINT PRESS RELEASE
2025 American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin and 2025 American Liberty Silver Medal Available on August 21
WASHINGTON, Aug. 14, 2025 — The United States Mint (Mint) will begin accepting orders for the 2025 American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin™ and the 2025 American Liberty Silver Medal™ on Thursday, August 21 at noon EDT.
The American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin and Silver Medal Program celebrates modern interpretations of American liberty, exploring the theme beyond classical portraits of allegorical “Liberty.” The 2025 coin and medal offer a different interpretation—a bold representation of the stewardship required to preserve American liberty.
The obverse (heads) design features a sunflower and a bee, representing the stewardship necessary to maintain liberty. Inscriptions are “LIBERTY,” “2025,” and “IN GOD WE TRUST.”
The reverse (tails) design depicts an energetic and swirling depiction of an eagle. The inscription on the silver medal is “UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.” The gold coin includes “100 DOLLARS,” “1 OZ.,” “.9999 FINE GOLD,” and “E PLURIBUS UNUM.”
The obverse and reverse designs were created by Artistic Infusion Program Designer Christopher Polentz. The obverse design was sculpted by Mint Medallic Artist John P. McGraw, and the reverse design was sculpted by Mint Medallic Artist Eric David Custer.
Produced at the Mint's West Point facility, each American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin contains one ounce of 99.99% fine gold and has a reeded edge. The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales.
Looks like HHL liftoff after 24 hours.
Back up the truck. 😁
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
then shouldn't it be honeycomb in a beehive?
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to. With Superman, additional inventory was loaded shortly after the first batch was sold. Everything was loaded all at once for Sac.
As I said above, I wouldn't even think about it until shortly before noon next Thursday. If it's still around 5K then, I'd be concerned that something is up.
Otherwise, based on the all-time high price and the fact that prior versions took many days to sell out, in addition to how aggressive they have been lately in purging ineligible orders, I'd be fairly confident that any of us will have ample opportunity to obtain 1 out of ~10K.
Either on 8/21, or on any of the days after, when it can be reasonably expected that dozens or hundreds will be made available each day until the HHL is lifted.
7500 Sacs were placed on sale on 7/31. At around half the price of this coin.
It has gone Unavailable every day since. And yet, anyone who hasn't already bought one and wants one has been able to get one.
Every single day. Including today.
No reason to think the same won't happen here. So absolutely no reason to hold back stock at 12:00 noon on Day One.
No reasonable explanation why the differences. Maybe it’s just that there is no competency necessary to get hired there.
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
http://ProofCollection.Net
It is a publicly available webpage, and we are allowed to access it. There is no hidden code, lol.
When someone keeps hearing(or spouting off) the same thing over and over again - they tend to believe it after awhile, even if untrue.
Exactly this...
Go look at the issues with unlimited mintages. There is still an ATS number which is the actual number AVAILABLE to sell. If they Mint more they add them to the number.
They are not going to sell coins they don't have that will obligate them to make them even if they don't have the time or inclination.
I don't know why anyone thinks this is anything but an HONEST inventory number. You're looking at the HTML code for the actual sale page.
Ive only collected 2 series from the start without missing any issues: the ATB 5 oz silver & the gold buffs. I was already into collecting when they started & was a fun, and turns out profitable (thus far, though not selling) way to get some gold & silver.
Since I was already buying all the gold buffs since 2006 I didn't bother w this series. I really wish I had.
Obviously, gold has gotten much higher by the time these started & the premium to spot is high, but it would be a neat series to have collected from the start. They'd look very cool together as a set. Oh well, that ship has sailed.
Has anyone bought all of these frim the start?
Why? Because it's HTML code that they simply either chose not to protect from public view, or they simply don't know how.
If they wanted to publish it, it would be on the product page, right next to the HHL. That's why. When they are no longer available for sale, they manage to let you know, without having you place an order and have it sit in their system, unfilled, forever.
Why is because when it counts down to 0, and then immediately appears with several thousand more, it is anything but "an HONEST inventory number." In fact, it is nothing more than the subset of the total inventory that has been loaded into the online system to be made available for sale to the public at any given point in time.
Superman went from 5K to 0 in less than 2 hours on release day, and then back up to 5K less than an hour later. They didn't produce the additional 5K in that time, and then add them to "HONEST inventory." Because they hadn't yet produced any at all.
They simply first loaded 5K into the system, and then loaded an additional 5K when the first 5K sold through. The first 5K was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than an arbitrary subset of 10K that they chose to load into the system at launch. That's why I happen to think "this is anything but an HONEST inventory number." YMMV.
The American Liberty Gold series started in 2015 and is minted every two years...I also thought this would be a great series to have collected from the start, I bought the first two, but didn't like the look of the 3rd one, when I finally decided to buy it, it was sold out. Then the Mustang came out in 2021, but it was too expensive at the time, so I didn't get that one either. I did like the BristleCone Pine, so got one of those. And now the new Sunflower Coin made the Mustang from '21 look affordable in hindsight. So buying this series from the start...3 out of 6...not great.
i don’t own any but like the 23 and 25 designs the best. The bronco is alright but definitely can’t justify it now. You can still find decent deals on the 15-19 though.
They don't have to make them to commit to making them, especially on a pre-sale.
ATS is quite literally what it says. It is not "mintage".
Understood. But it's not "an HONEST inventory number" when it counts down to 0 and then snaps back to several thousand several minutes later. Multiple times before final sell out. Not unless the Mint rushes out in the few minutes, mints the additional coins, and then promptly adds them to "HONEST inventory."
Having them sitting in the wings for days ahead of time, waiting for someone to arbitrarily add them to ATS, does not render the previously loaded quantity a reflection of "HONEST inventory." It renders it nothing more than a random number made available for sale at a given point in time that is unrelated to actual inventory.
Or when Superman started out at 5K, steadily counted down to 0, and promptly went back to 5K an hour or so later. Whatever that was, "0" was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than the quantity loaded into a sales system until they decided to load more. In fact, every number from the first 5K down to 0 was 5K short of the "HONEST inventory number."
Nothing had yet been minted, but a maximum mintage of 10K had been announced. Whatever games they played with FH gold and silver, and whatever games they might choose to play in the future with respect to short minting in spite of demand, you can rest assured that with a licensing deal with a partner that has no interest in Mint games or secondary market values down the road, if 10K is announced as a maximum mintage and can be sold, 10K will be minted and sold.
As was shown when the missing 5K was loaded immediately after the first 5K, anything but "HONEST inventory," sold through. Sitting unsold ever since after canceled orders. In fact, as of 2 days ago, it was reported in the Superman thread that the ATS number was around 2500 less than the sales on the official Mint report from earlier in the week indicated it should be. It is not "an HONEST inventory number," because 2500 gold Superman coins that have not yet shipped, if they were even made, did not simply disappear, and is sure to be revised at some point in the future, if it has not already been updated.
You can't bring yourself to ever concede a point, can you?
Lol.
Lol
Concede what point? The number is the number. You're the one who wants it to be different number.
EVERY BUSINESS in the planet has a constantly changing inventory number. It goes up when you add items, either due to manufacture or purchase or return. It goes down as you sell them.
If a bakery showed 3 donuts left to sell but then made a batch and it jumped to 53, would you call them dishonest?
There's no point to concede. You're the one at odds with reality here because you want the number to be "mintage limit remaining" instead of "available to sell".