Crackout from NGC 55…..to PCGS 40!! Tell us about your crackout successes and failures.
MEJ7070
Posts: 52 ✭✭✭
Im afraid this isn’t nearly as interesting as @PeakRarities incredible gold Beaver thread……..As a collector, I’ve never played the crackout game purely for monetary reasons. However, over the years, I’ve purchased over 30 graded coins for the express purpose of cracking them out to put into my Dansco 7070 album.
To make a long story short, that policy changed when I noticed that I had slide damaged one of my coins. Along with the fact that my album was getting closer to completion and more valuable, I decided it was time to submit to PCGS.
Of the coins I had cracked, 24/33 came back with the exact same grade. 6/33 upgraded by at least 1 grade, and 3/33 downgraded. There was only 1 result that I was truly surprised with.
I cracked this 1855 silver 3 cent from an NGC 55 holder, and it came back XF40!
Doesnt make me like the coin any less tbh, but lets just say it doesn’t make me feel smart 
I will say that the coin is more colorful than the Trueviews allow. I’ll take this one on the chin and chalk it up to lack of knowledge of the series, but the coin will stay in my type set because I like it.
The experience does make me genuinely curious to hear others’ stories of huge grade changes after cracking out. Can be up or down……and pics are appreciated!
Comments
Appears to me that NGC really blew it grading this tiny coin AU 55.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Just goes to show you that grading is really just an opinion, nothing more. That's why I think grading contests are a funny thing to do...there is no one, true grade lol.
Btw - I don't like the coin as either 40 or 55...either xf45 or au50 to me.
Deleted, wrong thread too
I would say it is an XF-45 but that is a large grading difference.
The good news is it a shoo-in for a green bean.
😊
1 - 1921 VAM 1H Peace ANACS AU58 breakout to PCGS MS62.
2 - 1919-S Mercury ANACS AU58 breakout to PCGS MS62.
I see a pattern developing.
USAF veteran 1984-2005
Friend of mine has an 18th century copper. I don't want to say too much as it is not my coin. He sent it to NGC who graded it "questionable authenticity". He sent it to CAC who graded it "counterfeit" and JA included a note saying it was a named counterfeiter. He cracked it out again and sent it to PCGS who graded it as a genuine "AU" .
1901 Penny ACG MS63 RD. Sent to crossover any grade PCGS. PCGS sent it back as not gradable. Broke it out sent back to PCGS, graded MS64RD.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
I've never seen such grading disparities than with a 3c silver I cracked out of an MS63 holder from one of the services, the other called it AU details "cleaned" or something, sent it back to the original service, same MS63 grade. PCGS to NGC or vice versa..
One "massacre" of crackouts/dips after reading "How to Make Money in Coins Right Now" of some $20 gold coins from OH PCGS coins resulted in a number of downgrades. PCGS had graded an 1880p $20 in MS60, an 1892-p $20 MS60 and a number of others that were not as tough grade wise, and they looked "salmon" color after the MS70 dip and the coins ended up grading AU58.
In my crossover experience from ATS to PCGS is normally not good as far as the same or better grade. There was ONE time that I picked a Barber Half up for my Everyman 7070 19th Century Type Set, hoping to obtain an AU58 grade from NGC's MS61. PCGS gave her a MS62.
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Like this?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I think the overall results of 33 coins cracked/resubmitted is a nice sampling. Per your breakdown 73% regraded the same, 18% upgraded, 9% came back lower.
Personally, I've cracked out NGC coins to submit to PCGS and had them knocked down a couple of grades. A Seated quarter I remember, but more commonly early copper, that in the moment was really frustrating, but later made more sense to me.
I've also crossed some really nice NGC coins to PCGS that I felt should have crossed at an upgrade but didn't- NGC 63 crossed to PCGS 63. I was so frustrated as I expected a 64 on it, I tracked down a PCGS 64 example of the same issue, and resubmitted it with the freshly graded 63 and another very nice 63- all 3 same issue. It worked out great, all 3 came back 64...
I don't know 3 cent silver, but I like it in the EF grade it currently resides.
Deleted. Wrong thread, sorry.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I had a Carson City double eagle that looked undergraded in an NGC 40 holder. Cracked it out and submitted it to PCGS. First two times it came back as a details coin. Third time was a charm and it came back in a 53 holder.
I have tried it once, PCGS MS63, 1884cc $, it came back MS63 again. So immediately sold it on ebay. I thought it was a 64 all day long and it's my core series. Buyer said he sent to CAC and got a gold bean. WTF.
bob
I generally don’t get involved with modern coins but a few years ago I came across a group of gorgeous raw clad Unc Washington’s 1965 to the mid-80’s. I made a deal with a dealer who would pay for slabbing them and we would split the profits. We were stunned as most came back QC. About a year later I cracked them out and consigned them to a large auction house. They slabbed them and they came back as 65’s to 67’+’s. Graded by the same well respected company. I can’t figure out how the same exact coins go from QC to gem Unc’s. It’s a bit of a game show to say the least.
Appreciate all the input.
Awful pic I know, but gives a better idea of color and perhaps a glimpse of why I didnt think buying the coin as an AU was completely nuts……
PCGS was correct.
Any crackout game I play to win. Don’t play it now but when I did overall broke even.
These incidents make one believe that grading is more of a crap shoot than one would like to believe. I’m encouraged to follow my gut when I evaluate a coin and use the services more as a filter than the final word.
Frankly, both grading services are excellent and get it right >95% of the time or maybe even more. Grading is subjective, graders in the grading room come and go, looseness versus being tight ebbs and flows. Hence the grade can change. I have cracked out 100s and gone to both services, mostly the same grade, rarely not. I have had some coins change grades, not often, one went from 45 PCGS no CAC, to 50 NGC w/CAC, to 53 PCG w/CAC. All were crack outs. Which one is right? It happens, again grading is subjective.
The OP did not talk about the coins that were upgraded - were they NGC too? Taking one coin out of context relative to all in the grading submission just to make a point about NGC? What is the point?
How many of you have seen this 3c example in hand? Many of you here say PCGS was more accurate on this one only from lousy images? Huh. I’d wanna see it in hand to make as assessment of what grade to put on the slab…………...
This thread will repeat itself (and has) over and over with time, bc some just wanna single out one grading service over the other. Yikes.
Just my 2c worth.
As the OP, I certainly didn’t mean to denigrate either grading service. Just thought a 15 point swing was a rare occurance and perhaps worth some discussion. I know that grades change due to crackouts all the time……but I haven’t heard of many 15 point swings.
I hope my post didn’t read too much like a complaint. I do not generally collect silver 3 cent material and bought the coin for my type set based on eye appeal and relative scarcity for the series, not the 55 grade it came with.
To the question regarding services, of the 9/33 crackouts that featured a grade change, 5 were NGC, 3 were ANACS, and 1 ICG.
Of the 6 coins where grades improved, 4 were NGC and 2 were ANACS, of the 3 downgrades, 2 were NGC and 1 ICG.
A minuscule sample size I know.
Cracked out ICG AU58 1909-S VDB and PCGS gave it MS63 BN.
The trueview may not be perfect, but it still shows rim weakness on both sides. Although I find that easier to forgive on such a thin coin, I don't think it belongs at the AU grade level.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
These types of coins are always interesting to collect.
Here is mine: known counterfeit slabbed as genuine by PCGS:
peacockcoins
I’ve been very lucky with the crack out game, although Ive only done it around 5 times. This was my best.
PCGS F12 to NGC VF25
Silverman68, jfoot13, GAB, ricman, Smittys, scrapman1077, RyGuy, Connecticoin, Meltdown, VikingDude, Peaceman, Patches and more.
So the counterfeit is Protected by NFC anti-counterfeiting technology!
Well... not so much anymore.
I cracked it out so as not to cause confusion for later generations:
peacockcoins
I cracked out a coin that had uncirculated details due to residue and no grade. So I soaked in acetone for a week and resubmitted … it came back AU 50.
Sent in an NGC MS 67 for crossover. Came back 66. The 66 has a price guide value of $3000. In 67 :$4500.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
NGC AU53 to PCGS XF45. PCGS was correct, IMO. Sorry for the poor Trueview with bright axial lighting. The coin is a jet-black, circulated cameo with Miss Liberty seeming to emerge out of the darkness.
Just about every NGC coin I've crossed to PCGS has been IMO, PROPERLY downgraded at least a step. Here's another example.
NGC VF35 to PCGS VF30 - PCGS graded it properly, IMO.
NGC AU55 - this coin was purchased from auction photos (not in-hand). PCGS graded it details "cleaned" and it was not crossed. Buried under that toning are some cleaning lines. It is also a WB-4, which used badly rusted and corroded dies, which didn't help. Ms. Liberty looks like a burn victim that lost a nasty acid fight. I've found out that poor dies and greased dies will screw you if the TPGs are not familiar with these DMs. I blame myself for these poor grades for selecting these coins.
I deleted the rest of this long post because I throw all the TPGs and even JA/CAC under the bus for inconsistent grading. Why post a dozen more instances where I feel the TPGs got the grades wrong, or JA was inconsistent? Desert Moon is right - Grading is subjective, graders are human, and humans are inconsistent.
What's interesting to me is how the TPGs will grade foreign coins very differently than they grade US coins. With circulated Newfoundland halves, PCGS jacks the grade up TWO STEPS higher on average than the other TPG services. I'm not kidding. VF30s become XF40s. It's wonderful! I laugh every time grades for my submitted Newfoundland halves are released! Crossing circulated Canadian coins to PCGS and selling them to naive collectors could be a successful business plan.
Reading this thread encourages me to resubmit my 1850 SLH. A different set of graders may reach a different conclusion.
Had an 1888 Indian cent go from ANACS MS62RB to PCGS MS65RB.
Had a 1873 Doubled liberty go from NGC MS63BN to PCGS AU58+, then reconsidered back into an MS63BN holder. That was a wild ride!
I'm curious. How much did you spend in grading fees and two round trips to the grading services including insured postage?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
1884-s Morgan dollar PCGS AU55 to NGC AU58; a lot of people have similar stories. Recently 1795 H10c ICG AG3 to CAC G4.
I have. Bought one as an XF40 (which is what NGC graded it when I submitted it), that had been in a high-grade ICG AU slab. The dealer was so embarrassed that he cracked it and sold it raw.
It had the same kind of wear on the obverse star and the reverse orbs that OPs coin has.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I’m thinking the same as @PerryHall and figure $1,500-2,000 on grading which doesn’t make sense to me. I understand and accept the mantra of “collect what you like/how you want” but this excercise seems a bit counterproductive.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I collect world coins so I don't have any experience with US coins cracking them out for upgrades. I have cracked out about 80 world coins. My success has been ~80% upgrade, 15% stay the same and 5% go down. This is crossing from either old no line NGC holders, early PCGS holders or old white ANACS holders to new PCGS holders.
Biggest change was an old white ANACS MS 62 slab. I studied this coins pics on eBay for 5 mins and could not see any issues. I figured why not. When I got it I was like again what am I missing. Finally last year broke it out and sent it off. Now in a PCGS 66 holder. And yes the colors are REALLY nice!
Doesn't pertain to thread but I do not ever remember seeing "artificially worn" on a coin holder. Perhaps they just default to "altered" sometimes. @braddick James
I have never gotten a down grade and have cracked probably 50 or so coins. I have had some stellar wins but these are often around designation types, like FB, FS, or PL. My best was an ANACS 65RD 1909 DDO I bought on the bay for like $350. Cracked upgraded to 66RD sold it and it went for $9500 and I believe it ended up as Blays example. Stewart really liked the coin when I had it.
My first certified SVDB was an ANACS 60 that I cracked out for my Dansco album. Years later I submitted it to PCGS and it came back AU 50. Broke even on the sale!
Bought an NGC 64RB 1919-s cent for the same reason. It came back 64RD! Made $1000!
I bought a PCI MS65RD 1911-s cent. Same reason. It came back PCGS MS65RD! I think I made like $500, so also yay!
Oh, and there was this 1912-s Lincoln that I bought in NGC MS66RB, with multicolored toning. I cracked that one and submitted it to PCGS and it came back AT. On the second or third try it came back 64RB. Definitely lost some $$$ there 😞
And there was also a PCGS MS63RD 1955DDO cent that I cracked and resubmitted. It came back 63RB and subsequent tries never improved.
Win-lose-win, it’s always fun to play!
Cheers!
Empty Nest Collection
I've seen worse within the grading room. That's why you need several people on each coin and the most experienced to see it before it gets shipped.