@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Why is the demand/value so much higher for the 1989 UD Griffey compared to the 1989 Donruss Rated Rookie Griffey?
The Rated Rookie has a population in PSA 10 that is half of the Upper Deck population, yet it sells for $600 compared to $3,800 for the UD....and the Rated Rookie is the enduring popular brand in the hobby. The Rated Rookie brand is 'iconic'.
5 million 1989 Donruss cards printed- 1 million 1989 Upper Deck cards printed.
Also its Upper Deck with a history of iconic sets. 1989 is the business
I think those numbers are quite low on the Upper Deck. There may be more Upper Deck than Donruss....and then the extra Upper Deck Griffey Rookies that were allegedly printed.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Why is the demand/value so much higher for the 1989 UD Griffey compared to the 1989 Donruss Rated Rookie Griffey?
The Rated Rookie has a population in PSA 10 that is half of the Upper Deck population, yet it sells for $600 compared to $3,800 for the UD....and the Rated Rookie is the enduring popular brand in the hobby. The Rated Rookie brand is 'iconic'.
5 million 1989 Donruss cards printed- 1 million 1989 Upper Deck cards printed.
Also its Upper Deck with a history of iconic sets. 1989 is the business
I think those numbers are quite low on the Upper Deck. There may be more Upper Deck than Donruss....and then the extra Upper Deck Griffey Rookies that were allegedly printed.
>
>
>
1 million Upper Deck cards printed?
Unless I am looking at something else, PSA alone has graded a total of 217,000 Upper Deck baseball cards from 1989. I seriously doubt that 22% of every card UD printed that year have been graded!
They have graded 86,500 1989 Donruss.
For the Griffey card in PSA 10;
Upper Deck 4,212
Donuss 2,078
PSA 9;
Upper Deck 32,572
Donruss 14,268
Total Griffey's graded;
Upper Deck 116,202
Donruss 48,555
Looks to me like you forgot a zero. If Donruss produced 5 million cards in 1989, Upper Deck printed 10 million.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@brad31 said:
For the Bo crowd: Jim Thorpe is the greatest male athlete of all time. Two Olympic gold medals in decathlon and pentathlon. Played professionally in baseball, basketball (no NBA yet) and football. He is in the pro football hall of fame; the college football hall of fame, the US Olympic Hall of Fame and the Track and Field Hall of Fame.
Agreed. And, he also played college lacrosse (I did as well, so I value that skill pretty highly ). I'm pasting some of this from his wiki page, but in college he also competed in football, baseball, lacrosse, tennis, boxing, handball, and ballroom dancing, winning the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship. Besides his other professional sports, he played lots of different positions in football, and dominated nearly every track and field event in addition to football running back. There's no question that he is truly the greatest all-around athlete ever. Bo is a phenomenal icon and was great at multiple sports, and I loved watching him in the '80's-'90's, but regardless of living people having personally witnessed one but not the other, we can't ignore recorded history on this one. Thorpe being the better all-around takes nothing away from how truly great Bo was.
Wax/Foil Cases Lo Series
Wax/Foil Cases Hi Series
Factory Set Cases
100 count players lots of Donruss have been advertised for sale since 1989. They are still available today. For Upper Deck, its just not the same quantities with the exception of the mystical dealer lots for team sets. I've never seen the latter but I have seen 5000 count player lots of 1989 Donruss.
@PatriotTrading said:
I'm sticking with the 5-1 ratio. 1989 Donruss was definitely printed a lot more than 1989 Upper Deck. For 1989 Donruss, you had multiple SKU's
Wax/Foil Cases Lo Series
Wax/Foil Cases Hi Series
Factory Set Cases
100 count players lots of Donruss have been advertised for sale since 1989. They are still available today. For Upper Deck, its just not the same quantities with the exception of the mystical dealer lots for team sets. I've never seen the latter but I have seen 5000 count player lots of 1989 Donruss.
How do you explain the fact that over twice as many UD cards have been graded than Donruss?
Regardless of what you have claimed about how many more products Donruss offered, it's been 35 years since these cards were issued. By this time, it should show up in the population report.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@PatriotTrading said:
I'm sticking with the 5-1 ratio. 1989 Donruss was definitely printed a lot more than 1989 Upper Deck. For 1989 Donruss, you had multiple SKU's
Wax/Foil Cases Lo Series
Wax/Foil Cases Hi Series
Factory Set Cases
100 count players lots of Donruss have been advertised for sale since 1989. They are still available today. For Upper Deck, its just not the same quantities with the exception of the mystical dealer lots for team sets. I've never seen the latter but I have seen 5000 count player lots of 1989 Donruss.
How do you explain the fact that over twice as many UD cards have been graded than Donruss?
Regardless of what you have claimed about how many more products Donruss offered, it's been 35 years since these cards were issued. By this time, it should show up in the population report.
Print runs from the major manufacturers in 1989 were never released, but best estimates from insiders approximate;
Topps = 5MM sets
Fleer = 4MM sets
Donruss = 4MM sets
Score = 3MM sets
UD = 1-2MM sets
I agree with Joe that grading pop reports can give insight into production runs, but other factors contribute to the quantity graded. The UD Griffey covers the grading fee in any grade PSA 1-10, while Fleer/Donruss Griffey’s only cover grading fees in PSA 9 or better. Also, 1989 UD cards are consistently in better condition given their premium card stock and production technique. These factors both lead to fewer submissions on the Fleer/Donruss, since most are off center or have print defects direct from unopened. The mind blowing stat to me is that 116,202 Griffey UD rookies have been graded, which is only 5-10% of those produced after 35 years!! That means so many more are still sitting unopened or in binders waiting to be graded. Yikes!
This same dynamic applied to Barry Sanders 1989 Score vs. Pro Set. More sets were produced by Pro Set, but more 1989 Score Barry Sanders cards have been graded. Hope this context helps the discussion.
@PatriotTrading said:
I'm sticking with the 5-1 ratio. 1989 Donruss was definitely printed a lot more than 1989 Upper Deck. For 1989 Donruss, you had multiple SKU's
Wax/Foil Cases Lo Series
Wax/Foil Cases Hi Series
Factory Set Cases
100 count players lots of Donruss have been advertised for sale since 1989. They are still available today. For Upper Deck, its just not the same quantities with the exception of the mystical dealer lots for team sets. I've never seen the latter but I have seen 5000 count player lots of 1989 Donruss.
How do you explain the fact that over twice as many UD cards have been graded than Donruss?
Regardless of what you have claimed about how many more products Donruss offered, it's been 35 years since these cards were issued. By this time, it should show up in the population report.
Although PSA population reports can be used as a factor to gauge print runs, it should never be used as the ONLY factor. Case in point, any late 90's Upper Deck/Donruss serial numbered insert in the 1000-9999 range. In most cases, you'll find less than a dozen graded. The reason for that is usually condition issues but mainly, the return on Investment. It just never made sense to send in a $5 card, for the $6 grading fee(2000's PSA prices) to sell it for $8. That's a losing business model.
With 1989 Donruss, It's has very light card stock that damages easily and the dark borders that show wear. If you've ever opened the blister packs, you'll know what I mean. Centering is a pain too. Most damage is in plain sight. Pretty much the bottom line with this one.
With the 1989 Upper Deck #1 card, a PSA 9, as mentioned by others, you can make money on. A PSA 8, you'll probably break even with the submission fee and raw card price. But a Gem Mint grade, that'll net you 10x the raw price. That was the 2000's. Today, a lot more. The card stock is also easy to grade and holds up to wear pretty good. However, PSA still grades this card harshly seemingly focusing on surface blemishes and particularly, the hologram. Most complaints are from collectors that don't look at those things closely enough. In general though, its just an iconic card overall.
So the population report comparison of these cards isn't necessarily showing you the total print run ratio but is more representative of the popularity ratio.
Not a card collector but posts caused me to look at cards that my wife's uncle collected before he passed away. Are these worth anything, these were in hard plastic for preservation and appear in very good shape.
Using the Game Stop grading price of roughly $25. Which raw card presents less risk and is worthy of sending even if both raw cards are seemingly in Mint Condition? Easy answer.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Why is the demand/value so much higher for the 1989 UD Griffey compared to the 1989 Donruss Rated Rookie Griffey?
The Rated Rookie has a population in PSA 10 that is half of the Upper Deck population, yet it sells for $600 compared to $3,800 for the UD....and the Rated Rookie is the enduring popular brand in the hobby. The Rated Rookie brand is 'iconic'.
5 million 1989 Donruss cards printed- 1 million 1989 Upper Deck cards printed.
Also its Upper Deck with a history of iconic sets. 1989 is the business
I bet it's more than that for both. i would guess closer to 8-10 million apiece. Counting all the factory sets.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Why is the demand/value so much higher for the 1989 UD Griffey compared to the 1989 Donruss Rated Rookie Griffey?
The Rated Rookie has a population in PSA 10 that is half of the Upper Deck population, yet it sells for $600 compared to $3,800 for the UD....and the Rated Rookie is the enduring popular brand in the hobby. The Rated Rookie brand is 'iconic'.
5 million 1989 Donruss cards printed- 1 million 1989 Upper Deck cards printed.
Also its Upper Deck with a history of iconic sets. 1989 is the business
I think those numbers are quite low on the Upper Deck. There may be more Upper Deck than Donruss....and then the extra Upper Deck Griffey Rookies that were allegedly printed.
>
>
>
1 million Upper Deck cards printed?
Unless I am looking at something else, PSA alone has graded a total of 217,000 Upper Deck baseball cards from 1989. I seriously doubt that 22% of every card UD printed that year have been graded!
They have graded 86,500 1989 Donruss.
For the Griffey card in PSA 10;
Upper Deck 4,212
Donuss 2,078
PSA 9;
Upper Deck 32,572
Donruss 14,268
Total Griffey's graded;
Upper Deck 116,202
Donruss 48,555
Looks to me like you forgot a zero. If Donruss produced 5 million cards in 1989, Upper Deck printed 10 million.
You may have quoted the wrong person. I agree there are just as many, if not more, 1989 Upper Deck than there is Donruss. There are so many out there that have not been sent to be graded. 10's are just opinions. It would be great if a 10 meant that if it was sent in 100 times by different people that it would be a 10 each and every time.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Not a card collector but posts caused me to look at cards that my wife's uncle collected before he passed away. Are these worth anything, these were in hard plastic for preservation and appear in very good shape.
Thus, you are now a card collector as this assemblage would net you barely more than a small pocketful of change.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Why is the demand/value so much higher for the 1989 UD Griffey compared to the 1989 Donruss Rated Rookie Griffey?
The Rated Rookie has a population in PSA 10 that is half of the Upper Deck population, yet it sells for $600 compared to $3,800 for the UD....and the Rated Rookie is the enduring popular brand in the hobby. The Rated Rookie brand is 'iconic'.
5 million 1989 Donruss cards printed- 1 million 1989 Upper Deck cards printed.
Also its Upper Deck with a history of iconic sets. 1989 is the business
I bet it's more than that for both. i would guess closer to 8-10 million apiece. Counting all the factory sets.
Yeah, my original post was meant to be more of a ratio than an exact print run estimate.
I thought the print run on 89 upper deck griffey alone was 2 million. Not counting the extras printed on their own sheet possibly There are 350 million people in the US. so about .6 percent of the population could have had a 89 upper deck Griffey. 2 million of each sheet.
@PatriotTrading said:
I'm sticking with the 5-1 ratio. 1989 Donruss was definitely printed a lot more than 1989 Upper Deck. For 1989 Donruss, you had multiple SKU's
Wax/Foil Cases Lo Series
Wax/Foil Cases Hi Series
Factory Set Cases
100 count players lots of Donruss have been advertised for sale since 1989. They are still available today. For Upper Deck, its just not the same quantities with the exception of the mystical dealer lots for team sets. I've never seen the latter but I have seen 5000 count player lots of 1989 Donruss.
How do you explain the fact that over twice as many UD cards have been graded than Donruss?
Regardless of what you have claimed about how many more products Donruss offered, it's been 35 years since these cards were issued. By this time, it should show up in the population report.
Although PSA population reports can be used as a factor to gauge print runs, it should never be used as the ONLY factor. Case in point, any late 90's Upper Deck/Donruss serial numbered insert in the 1000-9999 range. In most cases, you'll find less than a dozen graded. The reason for that is usually condition issues but mainly, the return on Investment. It just never made sense to send in a $5 card, for the $6 grading fee(2000's PSA prices) to sell it for $8. That's a losing business model.
With 1989 Donruss, It's has very light card stock that damages easily and the dark borders that show wear. If you've ever opened the blister packs, you'll know what I mean. Centering is a pain too. Most damage is in plain sight. Pretty much the bottom line with this one.
With the 1989 Upper Deck #1 card, a PSA 9, as mentioned by others, you can make money on. A PSA 8, you'll probably break even with the submission fee and raw card price. But a Gem Mint grade, that'll net you 10x the raw price. That was the 2000's. Today, a lot more. The card stock is also easy to grade and holds up to wear pretty good. However, PSA still grades this card harshly seemingly focusing on surface blemishes and particularly, the hologram. Most complaints are from collectors that don't look at those things closely enough. In general though, its just an iconic card overall.
So the population report comparison of these cards isn't necessarily showing you the total print run ratio but is more representative of the popularity ratio.
I'll say it one more time and then stop debating;
PSA has graded 217,000 Upper Deck baseball cards.
If Upper Deck produced 1 million baseball cards that would mean almost 22% of the cards produced were graded.
I don't think so.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@PatriotTrading said:
I'm sticking with the 5-1 ratio. 1989 Donruss was definitely printed a lot more than 1989 Upper Deck. For 1989 Donruss, you had multiple SKU's
Wax/Foil Cases Lo Series
Wax/Foil Cases Hi Series
Factory Set Cases
100 count players lots of Donruss have been advertised for sale since 1989. They are still available today. For Upper Deck, its just not the same quantities with the exception of the mystical dealer lots for team sets. I've never seen the latter but I have seen 5000 count player lots of 1989 Donruss.
How do you explain the fact that over twice as many UD cards have been graded than Donruss?
Regardless of what you have claimed about how many more products Donruss offered, it's been 35 years since these cards were issued. By this time, it should show up in the population report.
Although PSA population reports can be used as a factor to gauge print runs, it should never be used as the ONLY factor. Case in point, any late 90's Upper Deck/Donruss serial numbered insert in the 1000-9999 range. In most cases, you'll find less than a dozen graded. The reason for that is usually condition issues but mainly, the return on Investment. It just never made sense to send in a $5 card, for the $6 grading fee(2000's PSA prices) to sell it for $8. That's a losing business model.
With 1989 Donruss, It's has very light card stock that damages easily and the dark borders that show wear. If you've ever opened the blister packs, you'll know what I mean. Centering is a pain too. Most damage is in plain sight. Pretty much the bottom line with this one.
With the 1989 Upper Deck #1 card, a PSA 9, as mentioned by others, you can make money on. A PSA 8, you'll probably break even with the submission fee and raw card price. But a Gem Mint grade, that'll net you 10x the raw price. That was the 2000's. Today, a lot more. The card stock is also easy to grade and holds up to wear pretty good. However, PSA still grades this card harshly seemingly focusing on surface blemishes and particularly, the hologram. Most complaints are from collectors that don't look at those things closely enough. In general though, its just an iconic card overall.
So the population report comparison of these cards isn't necessarily showing you the total print run ratio but is more representative of the popularity ratio.
I'll say it one more time and then stop debating;
PSA has graded 217,000 Upper Deck baseball cards.
If Upper Deck produced 1 million baseball cards that would mean almost 22% of the cards produced were graded.
I don't think so.
UD produced 1-2 million of each card in the 800 set, which equals 800 million to 1.6 billion cards produced in total. That would mean .02-.04% have been graded by PSA (217,000 / 800,000,000 or 1,600,000,000).
Since most of the grading is on the Griffey RC, it would mean 5-11% of Griffey’s have been graded (I.e. 116,000 / 1,000,000 or 2,000,000). That seems plausible.
I think another discussion on this board may say the Griffey print run could be as high as 4 million. This is something that gets talked about a lot on this board.
I think it's the highest production sports card ever. Or was at in it's day.
Comments
I think those numbers are quite low on the Upper Deck. There may be more Upper Deck than Donruss....and then the extra Upper Deck Griffey Rookies that were allegedly printed.
>
>
>
1 million Upper Deck cards printed?
Unless I am looking at something else, PSA alone has graded a total of 217,000 Upper Deck baseball cards from 1989. I seriously doubt that 22% of every card UD printed that year have been graded!
They have graded 86,500 1989 Donruss.
For the Griffey card in PSA 10;
Upper Deck 4,212
Donuss 2,078
PSA 9;
Upper Deck 32,572
Donruss 14,268
Total Griffey's graded;
Upper Deck 116,202
Donruss 48,555
Looks to me like you forgot a zero. If Donruss produced 5 million cards in 1989, Upper Deck printed 10 million.
Agreed. And, he also played college lacrosse (I did as well, so I value that skill pretty highly
). I'm pasting some of this from his wiki page, but in college he also competed in football, baseball, lacrosse, tennis, boxing, handball, and ballroom dancing, winning the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship. Besides his other professional sports, he played lots of different positions in football, and dominated nearly every track and field event in addition to football running back. There's no question that he is truly the greatest all-around athlete ever. Bo is a phenomenal icon and was great at multiple sports, and I loved watching him in the '80's-'90's, but regardless of living people having personally witnessed one but not the other, we can't ignore recorded history on this one. Thorpe being the better all-around takes nothing away from how truly great Bo was.
Oh. You guys are serious.
I'm sticking with the 5-1 ratio. 1989 Donruss was definitely printed a lot more than 1989 Upper Deck. For 1989 Donruss, you had multiple SKU's
Wax Cases
Cello Cases
Cello Floor Displays
Rack Cases
Blister Rack Cases
Counter Displays
Factory Set Cases
Whereas Upper Deck you had
Wax/Foil Cases Lo Series
Wax/Foil Cases Hi Series
Factory Set Cases
100 count players lots of Donruss have been advertised for sale since 1989. They are still available today. For Upper Deck, its just not the same quantities with the exception of the mystical dealer lots for team sets. I've never seen the latter but I have seen 5000 count player lots of 1989 Donruss.
How do you explain the fact that over twice as many UD cards have been graded than Donruss?
Regardless of what you have claimed about how many more products Donruss offered, it's been 35 years since these cards were issued. By this time, it should show up in the population report.
They printed an extra million UD '89 Griffeys and yet there's still no centered example.
Print runs from the major manufacturers in 1989 were never released, but best estimates from insiders approximate;
I agree with Joe that grading pop reports can give insight into production runs, but other factors contribute to the quantity graded. The UD Griffey covers the grading fee in any grade PSA 1-10, while Fleer/Donruss Griffey’s only cover grading fees in PSA 9 or better. Also, 1989 UD cards are consistently in better condition given their premium card stock and production technique. These factors both lead to fewer submissions on the Fleer/Donruss, since most are off center or have print defects direct from unopened. The mind blowing stat to me is that 116,202 Griffey UD rookies have been graded, which is only 5-10% of those produced after 35 years!! That means so many more are still sitting unopened or in binders waiting to be graded. Yikes!
This same dynamic applied to Barry Sanders 1989 Score vs. Pro Set. More sets were produced by Pro Set, but more 1989 Score Barry Sanders cards have been graded. Hope this context helps the discussion.
Although PSA population reports can be used as a factor to gauge print runs, it should never be used as the ONLY factor. Case in point, any late 90's Upper Deck/Donruss serial numbered insert in the 1000-9999 range. In most cases, you'll find less than a dozen graded. The reason for that is usually condition issues but mainly, the return on Investment. It just never made sense to send in a $5 card, for the $6 grading fee(2000's PSA prices) to sell it for $8. That's a losing business model.
With 1989 Donruss, It's has very light card stock that damages easily and the dark borders that show wear. If you've ever opened the blister packs, you'll know what I mean. Centering is a pain too. Most damage is in plain sight. Pretty much the bottom line with this one.
With the 1989 Upper Deck #1 card, a PSA 9, as mentioned by others, you can make money on. A PSA 8, you'll probably break even with the submission fee and raw card price. But a Gem Mint grade, that'll net you 10x the raw price. That was the 2000's. Today, a lot more. The card stock is also easy to grade and holds up to wear pretty good. However, PSA still grades this card harshly seemingly focusing on surface blemishes and particularly, the hologram. Most complaints are from collectors that don't look at those things closely enough. In general though, its just an iconic card overall.
So the population report comparison of these cards isn't necessarily showing you the total print run ratio but is more representative of the popularity ratio.
Not a card collector but posts caused me to look at cards that my wife's uncle collected before he passed away. Are these worth anything, these were in hard plastic for preservation and appear in very good shape.
To reinforce popularity and ROI ,here are the last three recent sales of both cards in each PSA grade
Donruss
PSA 10: $650,$550,$510
PSA 9: $39,$25,$26
PSA 8: $13,$10,$15
Upper Deck
PSA 10: $1750,$3950,$3961
PSA 9: $282, $232, $290
PSA 8: $90, $100, $95
Using the Game Stop grading price of roughly $25. Which raw card presents less risk and is worthy of sending even if both raw cards are seemingly in Mint Condition? Easy answer.
I bet it's more than that for both. i would guess closer to 8-10 million apiece. Counting all the factory sets.
You may have quoted the wrong person. I agree there are just as many, if not more, 1989 Upper Deck than there is Donruss. There are so many out there that have not been sent to be graded. 10's are just opinions. It would be great if a 10 meant that if it was sent in 100 times by different people that it would be a 10 each and every time.
I've seen no evidence to suggest PSA is competent enough to manage a campaign to control population reports. Convince me.
Delete
Thus, you are now a card collector as this assemblage would net you barely more than a small pocketful of change.
Farewell Ryno.
Yeah, my original post was meant to be more of a ratio than an exact print run estimate.
I thought the print run on 89 upper deck griffey alone was 2 million. Not counting the extras printed on their own sheet possibly There are 350 million people in the US. so about .6 percent of the population could have had a 89 upper deck Griffey. 2 million of each sheet.
I'll say it one more time and then stop debating;
PSA has graded 217,000 Upper Deck baseball cards.
If Upper Deck produced 1 million baseball cards that would mean almost 22% of the cards produced were graded.
I don't think so.
UD produced 1-2 million of each card in the 800 set, which equals 800 million to 1.6 billion cards produced in total. That would mean .02-.04% have been graded by PSA (217,000 / 800,000,000 or 1,600,000,000).
Since most of the grading is on the Griffey RC, it would mean 5-11% of Griffey’s have been graded (I.e. 116,000 / 1,000,000 or 2,000,000). That seems plausible.
I think another discussion on this board may say the Griffey print run could be as high as 4 million. This is something that gets talked about a lot on this board.
I think it's the highest production sports card ever. Or was at in it's day.
There must be a lot of untapped Griffeys still casually residing in factory boxes, unopened product or Page 1 of a notebook.
Farewell Ryno.
Likely a lot in the trash.
There are piles of factory sets on EBAY. and many unopened boxes still around.