Fair Market Purchase Price For A 2000-P Sacagawea Cheerios Dollar ANACS MS63?
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I have my eye on a 2000-P Sacagawea Cheerios Dollar ANACS MS63 (Why?.......I don't know. Maybe because they seem so elusive). A private, non-professional collector owns the coin and it's not listed anywhere.
I'm trying to figure out a far market value and make him an offer. I know, how bad do I want the coin?...Not enough to get ripped off. I'm just looking for a fair price for myself and the seller. So what is he selling it for?.......Good question, he hasn't said.
Unless I'm missing it somewhere, I haven't seen any recent sales on eBay, Heritage or NE for MS60's, 61's, 62's, 63's, 64's or 65's. All the ones I've seen for sale or auction are high grades and WAY out of my price range!
I don't believe the TPG'er price guides are current. I'm leaning towards the graysheet numbers. It has 63's listed price for 1K, not sure who the graders are.
The below sales were on GC.
Your thoughts?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Comments
Is this the coin? https://www.ebay.com/itm/406003155770?_skw=cheerios+dollar+ms63&itmmeta=01K14R5BFVVSD1ZE4G3G4JN10B&hash=item5e87ac833a:g:Ew0AAeSwSGVoPqET&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1ctuQ96iDWkTkYFaR92y1QxpIdmSKhDviQZDGAQ0fXPGyoLulqO+zwCqGQ8/blA+TEZgnRzYBewLpQxzzPLY9EiGYPX99xOsjzWjlBX8zJD1eofY9rQ0EZuV44zd+1PdTtJc73yApdnySDO6cWnPlPMDj8dP8+3PcZ2cJofHmcs+lt8KomujS8FfwmDw5GCiyLka5/G5vNB5ginKvhPAZ7sYr1hPIXsgalxxppzH6z8nAWbtlmhaV25/1UOfCuASxU=|tkp:Bk9SR5C4lZiJZg
If so, the listed minimum bid ($6000) and Buy It Now ($7800) prices from when it went unsold are so unrealistically high that my guess is he wouldn’t be willing to sell it for a reasonable price.
Based on sales of various higher grade examples I viewed in the Heritage archives, I’d probably figure the coin in the (edited) $3000 price range. Others might have very different thoughts on that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
At MS63 you're at the lower spectrum grade of "it exists". An AU55 ANACS sold $3500 about six months ago on eBay. Fair price for both buyer and seller of a 63 is probably around $4000.
Edit: If it's a transaction outside of any auction fees, a bit less maybe more like $3500 or so.
peacockcoins
The listing I linked ended July 4th, so it would still fall under “not listed anywhere” for sale. On the other hand, it didn’t appear to be listed by a “non-professional collector”, so I won’t try to make a case for that qualification.😉 Regardless, I thought it might be helpful to show the listing, as there can’t be too many MS63 ANACS examples out there.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Double face value
Now I'm confused, which doesn't take much. The guy I'm talking to is in Maryland. The seller of that coin/listing is/was apparently in Pennsylvanian. I had not seen that listing. I did a search for most recent sales on eBay but only a couple of high grades popped up, not that one. I was under the impression the coin had not been listed anywhere, although it never sold.
That must be the same coin! There is only one 63 listed in the ANACS pop report. I'll be making a phone call.
In any event, I think my question here has been answered. It's mostly likely still going to be out of my range.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I found the listing under “Completed Items”. If it is the same coin perhaps the collector/owner had the eBay seller list it for sale on his behalf.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That is possible.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
It's also possible the census is incorrect
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That is very possible. That's all I had to go no. You just do what you can to do the research and try and get the facts.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I really like these "Cheerios" dollars, and if these small dollars are important to you (and I think they are from reading your posts) I'd stretch for one.
Good luck
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I would like @dennis5151 to chime in but haven't seen him around lately.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I know.
Mark is correct in the logic it is probably the same coin.
If so his asking price is a bit too high.
I'd think one of these in ANACS MS63 is probably worth 3K to 4K, give or take.
peacockcoins
it is also possible person-MD hopes he can sell it for say $5000 and buy it for $4000 from person-PA. wouldn't be the first time
Update listings on a few Cheerios dollars.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/157369138816?_skw=2000-p+cheerios+sacagawea+dollar+coin&itmmeta=01K8254ZAR7Z3HD3WFC20KA7YK&hash=item24a3ee7e80:g:vLsAAeSwu9xo4ue5&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA4FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1f4UF1GjMChLfxRy9ufH8A7+UVGlVECYNuSf8IlA/BpHpTR3jvSKWdNKKZfnv+BOvomxUQyk4+KARD1ajxoqWUCvduAWDGe30picCnRNgi30uMtsUT+RQJD8HGiSeh6w8g14+rHMFjzJYkbQKXGVNOYxcEhZ8q5Tfm037G0HLf45Rqv09ufZDa9Ekqgc+n9DkcdA4PlQmbo7tJ4XyXGhzvm0XEfuzkgM6xbf1KOpFU1MCO/ELnKokmt8nbj1Wtgo/OvejlMmcIIgK0T96lihQZD|tkp:Bk9SR771k8XAZg
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
@CaptHenway - Check this out. A Cheerios dollar in a straight graded slab!! WoW!! If you haven't already seen.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/205793035695?_skw=2000-p+cheerios+sacagawea+dollar+coin&itmmeta=01K8254ZAR6YFJNSMVZT0TVB0Q&hash=item2fea3885af:g:w3oAAeSwqn1o85xd&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA4FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1dwYwTcOEyRZR9rSCU2zxxPqOhyYjwmujl4M1ud7bgxaLJPJ+aJqWAmlvIiQCPUCLqkElvm9AcIGSAMtWoD+zOmhfBYeeTw2/CsBB41VtuWog+qd/Qef68mZFH7GRpjQt0YjRs5tyMMHYuDsXveZNXgXCopPJMnwZ58peRTGomgjHlaFAy/i3hIbQuZMxnDsB6L/Vg3/Ey3I+SKJLqAcm0wsTBBqsUAuBPtMoSzWtht43PhLyXLbzkVotmhwFyxoquZ2US9qiVm2abCaW4ziyzG|tkp:Bk9SR771k8XAZg
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
So if this guy is asking $3,500, maybe the 63 is in the ballpark.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
the 62 is aesthetically challenged. i'm thinking a ngc 3500 is too much
Even the seller calls it circulated in his comments. Can't say that I disagree with him.
There are seven consecutive pieces coming up for sale at Stacks-Bowers on Nov. 14th, starting with this lot.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1MZNFR/2000-p-sacagawea-cheerios-dollar-fs-902-boldly-detailed-tail-feathers-ms-68-ngc
I am curious to see what they bring.
Considering (for whatever reason) the vast majority of these seem to be 67's & 68's, a 62 might actually be considered aesthetically challenged.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I was very curious about this coin. I messaged the seller. We had a great conversation.
I wanted to know the history of the coin, regarding where or how he acquired it. He said he acquired the coin through, QUOTE: A change machine in Montcalm County Michigan. He immediately recognized it as a Cheerios dollar. He said he took the coin to a coin shop to have it submitted to NGC. They both knew it was a Cheerios dollar but forgot to request and pay for attribution on the submission form....
I'm thinking to myself: How does that happen??
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I don’t think ngc ms62 label says it’s cheerios
He screws up the first sub... and he doesn't resubmit a $3000+ for the correct label?
Something doesn't add up.
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What is this "Cheerios" Sac Dollar and why so valuable ?
I suspect that you’re capable of looking it up and getting quick answers on your own.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It happens more often then you think.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Sure it does. 🤣 😉
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Looks like someone apparently bought it.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
There were 5,500 placed in Cheerios cereal boxes as a promotion. Later it was discovered that the wing and tail feathers on many of those found in the Cheerios boxes are more defined than on the coins released into circulation.
Here is a good website to learn more:
http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page25.html
http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page20c.html
Sold for $3,350
Thanks for that @U1chicago !
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
It happens all the time. They likely didn't even recognize the variety when grading it.
As I said above, that eBay seller called it circulated in his description, and I did not disagree with him.
I have no idea how the grading system or process works once the coins are received. Whom ever the first person is to open the package and review the submission form, might be the person to direct it to straight grading or variety attribution. If there's no variety attribution indicated on the submission form, it probably goes to straight grading only and the graders aren't even looking for a variety... Just my non-professional opinion.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
But to do so, they have to change the official coin designation and coin number on the submission form provided by the submitter. One would think that if there is any confusion, the TPGS would 1) call the submitter because the submitter should know what they have, or 2) have someone who knows something about coins examine the coin. The worst thing to do is just change the customer's coin name and number without doing those checks. The default approach should always be to follow the customers designations. That way they are not responsible for the screw-up.
That all might be true. I don't believe the customer is designating anything. The customer is requesting an attribution for designation. The bottom-line (I think) for the grading service.. If it's not on the submission form and not paid for....it's not being attributed and not going on the label of the slab.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
As far as NGC is concerned, that coin is worth $2.00. 😂 🤣
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
If they didn't mention Cheerios dollar anywhere on the submission form, then they are at the mercy of the graders. But how could one miss a Cheerios dollar? It's a Redbook variety, and they are supposed to identity those free of charge. That's like saying one has to pay extra to have a 1955 doubled die slabbed and labeled properly or it will come back a 1955 normal date. TPGs not recognizing and labeling these obvious varieties is really annoying.
I'm also mixing what's been said in this thread with my own experience with botched labels because they changed the designations without asking, and half-assed attributions that were worthless to me despite paying attribution fees and giving them explicit instructions on exactly what to do. PCGS is incompetent at attributions and ignores your instructions. They waste their money and reputation putting out glossy magazines that are irrelevant to their central mission. Maybe I have to go with Varslab or switch TPG services for better attributions.
I have to take a stress pill now. I do love to beat that dead horse. It deserves it.
I can't argue with that. You obviously have the experience I don't. All my varieties, attributions and errors go to ANACS.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )