@MsMorrisine said:
i would think getting them back would be part of pcgs' continued operation. they can continue operating in bankruptcy. i am guessing coins received will be coins returned as parts of cont'd ops
but yeah, 100 mil in other divisions' guarantees may bust the collectors group. if they are self insured. do they carry insurance to cover their guarantees just in case something like this happens?
if they are that good who's going to know to submit a guarantee?
I doubt their exposure would be that high. A lot of the material was sold raw. And there are questions about the accuracy of his suicidal blathering..
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I always just assumed autographed sports memorabilia were forgeries and that genuine ones were indistinguishable from forgeries. Like those stores that used to be in shopping malls that sold framed stuff with autographs or footballs and baseballs in little cases. I assumed these were mass produced in factories and that fans didn’t really care if the autographs were real or not, they just liked the memorabilia as decorations.
@Clackamas1 said:
The $350M number is nonsense, the dude lived pretty frugally for having that kind of coin.
I agree, I think this was a big FU to the other dealers in sports memorabilia business to harm their business as a whole. Sounded like other dealers turned him in so this was his payback before he iced himself.
You cared enough to open the thread and comment, and enough of us here are interested in the topic as it relates to guarantees and grading companies. If anything needs to be moved, it’s useless comments like this. THKS & RGDS, RTRD!
@PeakRarities said:
Heres a better written article, still unclear on some details but at least it doesn't read like it was written by a 7th grader.
Interesting to learn what is tolerated here--with apparently zero consequences.
I wasn't going to reply to you, but since you are so desperate for attention, I'll indulge. My reply to the other poster had nothing to do with you whatsoever, but he has a habit of being obnoxiously rude on any thread that he deems to be "off topic". With that said, he is not an authority here, and this happens to be one of the most interesting topics that had arisen in a while, with possibly massive implications for third party authentication services. '
See, for most of us here, you can view a users post and comment history dating back years, in contrast to your private profile which allows no such review. It wouldn't take you very long to see that 99% of his posts are about precious metal prices or the economy, and he rarely even contributes to the US coin forum in the first place. He frequently disparages any group of people that are not aligned with his own thinking, grading services, dealers, "sheep" and "bunker dwellers", its unlikely to find even a single comment that had a positive or friendly sentiment towards another poster. That is the reason I even felt the need to comment in the first place, because acting as the arbiter on a forum which you hardly participate in is laughable, and when he does it has been to disparage someone else's coin or collecting preferences.
Needless to say, he doesn't have too many friends here, which is why you'll find that your crusade against me won't pick up any traction. For reasons unknown, because you don't even know what I meant, or what I was actually implying. Believe it or not, I actually meant to type TRRD, implying that I was tired, definitely not that he acts like a turd or anything .
Pay no mind to the fact that he has been jailed or temporarily banned numerous times for obnoxious or rude behavior, so it's rather comical that this is the hill you choose to die on.
See, I actually like some of the content that you post, with exception of your constant need to portray me as the villain for reasons unspecified. I spelled nothing, and even If I was calling him something that you implied in your comment, which I wasn't, It would absolutely not have been in the literal context of prior generations . Under no circumstances have I ever used that word in context to anyone with physical or mental disabilities, and have family members with similar disabilities to the one you mentioned in your first comment. So, there's really no good reason for you to insert yourself into the discussion, grasping to take umbrage as you clutch your pearls. There's plenty of offense to go around if you're constantly looking for it, hopefully you haven't been too offended in your travels outside of this very tame forum.
Don't think no one notices that you have a habit of deleting all of your comments and contributions to the forum weeks or months after the fact, leaving nothing in their place, and rendering such threads hollow and useless. See, no matter how educated you appear to be, you have much more in common with the poster whom I originally replied to, being that you leave no lasting positive contributions to this forum in addition to both being exceptionally disagreeable. Many posters over the years have either slowed, or ceased to post completely, primarily because of the type of behavior that he and you choose to exhibit. It's a shame because I don't think he was always like that, and you seem like you could be a positive asset to discussions here if you choose to be. I'm certainly not perfect myself, and despite my shortcomings, I try to make a positive impact here when I'm able to, but there need not be a spot reserved for me on the new "Victim" forum that you two can both manage and moderate if you're not satisfied with the disciplinary decisions made on this one. Good luck to you, and hopefully you aren't too offended by my verbally communicated exhaustion in the future, but thanks for your concern.
You cared enough to open the thread and comment, and enough of us here are interested in the topic as it relates to guarantees and grading companies. If anything needs to be moved, it’s useless comments like this. THKS & RGDS, RTRD!
@PeakRarities said:
Heres a better written article, still unclear on some details but at least it doesn't read like it was written by a 7th grader.
Interesting to learn what is tolerated here--with apparently zero consequences.
I wasn't going to reply to you, but since you are so desperate for attention, I'll indulge. My reply to the other poster had nothing to do with you whatsoever, but he has a habit of being obnoxiously rude on any thread that he deems to be "off topic". With that said, he is not an authority here, and this happens to be one of the most interesting topics that had arisen in a while, with possibly massive implications for third party authentication services. '
See, for most of us here, you can view a users post and comment history dating back years, in contrast to your private profile which allows no such review. It wouldn't take you very long to see that 99% of his posts are about precious metal prices or the economy, and he rarely even contributes to the US coin forum in the first place. He frequently disparages any group of people that are not aligned with his own thinking, grading services, dealers, "sheep" and "bunker dwellers", its unlikely to find even a single comment that had a positive or friendly sentiment towards another poster. That is the reason I even felt the need to comment in the first place, because acting as the arbiter on a forum which you hardly participate in is laughable, and when he does it has been to disparage someone else's coin or collecting preferences.
Needless to say, he doesn't have too many friends here, which is why you'll find that your crusade against me won't pick up any traction. For reasons unknown, because you don't even know what I meant, or what I was actually implying. Believe it or not, I actually meant to type TRRD, implying that I was tired, definitely not that he acts like a turd or anything .
Pay no mind to the fact that he has been jailed or temporarily banned numerous times for obnoxious or rude behavior, so it's rather comical that this is the hill you choose to die on.
See, I actually like some of the content that you post, with exception of your constant need to portray me as the villain for reasons unspecified. I spelled nothing, and even If I was calling him something that you implied in your comment, which I wasn't, It would absolutely not have been in the literal context of prior generations . Under no circumstances have I ever used that word in context to anyone with physical or mental disabilities, and have family members with similar disabilities to the one you mentioned in your first comment. So, there's really no good reason for you to insert yourself into the discussion, grasping to take umbrage as you clutch your pearls. There's plenty of offense to go around if you're constantly looking for it, hopefully you haven't been too offended in your travels outside of this very tame forum.
Don't think no one notices that you have a habit of deleting all of your comments and contributions to the forum weeks or months after the fact, leaving nothing in their place, and rendering such threads hollow and useless. See, no matter how educated you appear to be, you have much more in common with the poster whom I originally replied to, being that you leave no lasting positive contributions to this forum in addition to both being exceptionally disagreeable. Many posters over the years have either slowed, or ceased to post completely, primarily because of the type of behavior that he and you choose to exhibit. It's a shame because I don't think he was always like that, and you seem like you could be a positive asset to discussions here if you choose to be. I'm certainly not perfect myself, and despite my shortcomings, I try to make a positive impact here when I'm able to, but there need not be a spot reserved for me on the new "Victim" forum that you two can both manage and moderate if you're not satisfied with the disciplinary decisions made on this one. Good luck to you, and hopefully you aren't too offended by my verbally communicated exhaustion in the future, but thanks for your concern.
Using my working edit button. Will just wait & see if this kind of post/conduct is deemed acceptable here.
I see similar posts from others. What’s the reason for them? The answer that might seem obvious would be to add to a member’s post count but there are plenty of other more meaningful opportunities to accomplish that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To be sure, the individual would have to be standing there when the item was signed.
But for authentication you would have to have a credible witness standing there as well... someone credible like San Lee
Does anyone know of a place where a person can decipher a signature yet on the Internet, maybe IA with picture search?
I see similar posts from others. What’s the reason for them? The answer that might seem obvious would be to add to a member’s post count but there are plenty of other more meaningful opportunities to accomplish that.
Haha, Mark. It's intended to be a humorous acknowledgement of a thread that's going to be locked down by our hosts. Just a joke and no, I don't care about post count. Yes, it adds nothing to the discussion because I don't think the thread is worth my contribution.
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I see similar posts from others. What’s the reason for them? The answer that might seem obvious would be to add to a member’s post count but there are plenty of other more meaningful opportunities to accomplish that.
Haha, Mark. It's intended to be a humorous acknowledgement of a thread that's going to be locked down by our hosts. Just a joke and no, I don't care about post count. Yes, it adds nothing to the discussion because I don't think the thread is worth my contribution.
Thanks, Dan. I didn’t think you cared about your post count, which was part of the reason for my curiosity.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
"He’s trying to burn the industry on the way out of the door,” one autograph dealer said. “It’s clear he feels spurned and is trying to impress people.”
Translation of "on the way out of the door" = committed suicide.
I'm guessing he anticipated committing suicide was better than being tortured and killed by some of the people he screwed.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@ChrisH821 said:
How can someone be so greedy? No amount of fraud is OK, but hundreds of millions of dollars worth?
I thought the same. Maybe this is an attempt to “flood the zone” and destabilize the overall market 🤷🏻♂️
See, this is the part that I'm waiting for fact based confirmation. The NYT article linked above reads-
“There’s numbers being thrown around, the numbers he threw around,” Ravid said. “If the numbers were real, we wouldn’t have waited years to put that much pressure on. These aren’t the numbers. It’s grossly exaggerated to make a statement. The problem is real. The extent and the scale of it is less than what is being presented, but it is symbolic of what is happening in the industry.”
Then from the NY post-
“It’s certainly greater than zero and I have to guess that it’s less than a billion dollars. Obviously that’s a very wide range, but I think that in some cases, it may not even matter how much money it was at this point,” Sheldon said.
I'm sure it will be an obscene amount of money either way, and at this level it goes well beyond greed or ego. An amount like this is indicative of an addiction or a sickness, like BM or SBF. It's not even about the money to them at that point, it's the thrill of evading consequences.
Lastly, dedicated collectibles news outlet CLLCT published -
“He’s trying to burn the industry on the way out of the door,” one autograph dealer said. “It’s clear he feels spurned and is trying to impress people.”
That source said he thought the numbers Lemieux boasted about seemed completely unrealistic.
“If he made and sold that much, the autograph industry would have been crushed,” the source said.Longtime autograph authentication expert Steve Grad says no matter what the numbers, "this guy did years and years of damage."Grad said it's harder and harder to catch criminals because the autopen process is getting more and more nuanced.
"This might have an effect on the industry in the short-term, but people have short memories, it will bounce back," he added.
Awfully confident that the memorabilia market can recover from this, much more than I am, considering the "related stories" at the bottom.
It wasn’t like what Lemieux was doing was a secret, another industry insider said.
“He had tons of autographs from guys that didn’t do a signing in years,” one autograph dealer said.
Related Stories :
-U.S. border agents seize $1.43 million worth of fake sports merchandise
-Charges dropped against two defendants in Jason Kelce autograph fraud
-Why so many Michael Jordan autographs are fake: A cllct investigation
With modern technology, I have doubts about the sports signature market's ability tio recover from this. Frankly, I question the efficacy of baseball or Pokemon card authentication, are the graders truly able to "Catch'-em all" with modern forgery techniques? We see what we're dealing with regarding coins, and I would seem to think that coins are exponentially more difficult to make forgeries that can go undetected.
Part of me wonders if the coin market could end up benefitting, indirectly, from any spillover of funds seeking alternative assets, or if wealthy investors are more likely to turn their attention to a Ceratosaurus Skeleton, like the one that just sold on Sotheby's for 30 million. (Not gonna lie, the concept of having a dinosaur Skelton in your foyer sounds remarkably bad-ass...)
@ChrisH821 said:
How can someone be so greedy? No amount of fraud is OK, but hundreds of millions of dollars worth?
I thought the same. Maybe this is an attempt to “flood the zone” and destabilize the overall market 🤷🏻♂️
See, this is the part that I'm waiting for fact based confirmation. The NYT article linked above reads-
“There’s numbers being thrown around, the numbers he threw around,” Ravid said. “If the numbers were real, we wouldn’t have waited years to put that much pressure on. These aren’t the numbers. It’s grossly exaggerated to make a statement. The problem is real. The extent and the scale of it is less than what is being presented, but it is symbolic of what is happening in the industry.”
Then from the NY post-
“It’s certainly greater than zero and I have to guess that it’s less than a billion dollars. Obviously that’s a very wide range, but I think that in some cases, it may not even matter how much money it was at this point,” Sheldon said.
I'm sure it will be an obscene amount of money either way, and at this level it goes well beyond greed or ego. An amount like this is indicative of an addiction or a sickness, like BM or SBF. It's not even about the money to them at that point, it's the thrill of evading consequences.
Lastly, dedicated collectibles news outlet CLLCT published -
“He’s trying to burn the industry on the way out of the door,” one autograph dealer said. “It’s clear he feels spurned and is trying to impress people.”
That source said he thought the numbers Lemieux boasted about seemed completely unrealistic.
“If he made and sold that much, the autograph industry would have been crushed,” the source said.Longtime autograph authentication expert Steve Grad says no matter what the numbers, "this guy did years and years of damage."Grad said it's harder and harder to catch criminals because the autopen process is getting more and more nuanced.
"This might have an effect on the industry in the short-term, but people have short memories, it will bounce back," he added.
Awfully confident that the memorabilia market can recover from this, much more than I am, considering the "related stories" at the bottom.
It wasn’t like what Lemieux was doing was a secret, another industry insider said.
“He had tons of autographs from guys that didn’t do a signing in years,” one autograph dealer said.
Related Stories :
-U.S. border agents seize $1.43 million worth of fake sports merchandise
-Charges dropped against two defendants in Jason Kelce autograph fraud
-Why so many Michael Jordan autographs are fake: A cllct investigation
With modern technology, I have doubts about the sports signature market's ability tio recover from this. Frankly, I question the efficacy of baseball or Pokemon card authentication, are the graders truly able to "Catch'-em all" with modern forgery techniques? We see what we're dealing with regarding coins, and I would seem to think that coins are exponentially more difficult to make forgeries that can go undetected.
Part of me wonders if the coin market could end up benefitting, indirectly, from any spillover of funds seeking alternative assets, or if wealthy investors are more likely to turn their attention to a Ceratosaurus Skeleton, like the one that just sold on Sotheby's for 30 million. (Not gonna lie, the concept of having a dinosaur Skelton in your foyer sounds remarkably bad-ass...)
It's also possible it brings down all collectible markets. After all, anything can be faked if you try hard enough. And you don't have to fake coins perfectly if you can fake the authentication perfectly. When the cost of authenticating the authentication becomes larger than the value of most coins, where are we?
The people that fail to see the connection of this fraud to the coin market just aren't looking hard enough.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
It's interesting to me that this appears to have been a largely domestic operation. One would think operations overseas could exist that have the same abilities and machinery that Lemieux had access to, but that don't run the risk of having their warehouses raided. We already see this with coins.
@TrickleCharge said:
It's interesting to me that this appears to have been a largely domestic operation. One would think operations overseas could exist that have the same abilities and machinery that Lemieux had access to, but that don't run the risk of having their warehouses raided. We already see this with coins.
No one is trying as hard to chieftain coins overseas. The Chinese coins are designed as souvenir reproductions which is why they are ready to spot. If someone put in a much effort on the coin side, we would have a much bigger problem. The whole goal of the Chinese operations is to make them cheaply not perfectly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@TrickleCharge said:
It's interesting to me that this appears to have been a largely domestic operation. One would think operations overseas could exist that have the same abilities and machinery that Lemieux had access to, but that don't run the risk of having their warehouses raided. We already see this with coins.
No one is trying as hard to chieftain coins overseas. The Chinese coins are designed as souvenir reproductions which is why they are ready to spot. If someone put in a much effort on the coin side, we would have a much bigger problem. The whole goal of the Chinese operations is to make them cheaply not perfectly.
I agree that the overwhelming majority of Chinese counterfeits are crude fakes, but there are some really high end fakes being produced too in limited quantities. Ones that sometimes get past TPGs. @burfle23 has posted some of these in the past.
I suppose I was trying more to say that even with Lemieux gone, what would prevent the Chinese from producing merchandise exactly like he was but without the fear of being closed down. Despite this raid, I think the risk to the sports memorabilia market still remains.
@TrickleCharge said:
It's interesting to me that this appears to have been a largely domestic operation. One would think operations overseas could exist that have the same abilities and machinery that Lemieux had access to, but that don't run the risk of having their warehouses raided. We already see this with coins.
No one is trying as hard to chieftain coins overseas. The Chinese coins are designed as souvenir reproductions which is why they are ready to spot. If someone put in a much effort on the coin side, we would have a much bigger problem. The whole goal of the Chinese operations is to make them cheaply not perfectly.
I agree that the overwhelming majority of Chinese counterfeits are crude fakes, but there are some really high end fakes being produced too in limited quantities. Ones that sometimes get past TPGs. @burfle23 has posted some of these in the past.
I suppose I was trying more to say that even with Lemieux gone, what would prevent the Chinese from producing merchandise exactly like he was but without the fear of being closed down. Despite this raid, I think the risk to the sports memorabilia market still remains.
Do we know that they don't? As you pointed out, there would be no raid to hit the news.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Comments
I doubt their exposure would be that high. A lot of the material was sold raw. And there are questions about the accuracy of his suicidal blathering..
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
The $350M number is nonsense, the dude lived pretty frugally for having that kind of coin.
Heres a better written article, still unclear on some details but at least it doesn't read like it was written by a 7th grader.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6501407/2025/07/18/brett-lemieux-fake-autograph-case/
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
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Not a sports card guy. How are cards involved?
It looks like he was trying to say that the gentleman in question was “retired”, as in he has too much time on his hands so was spamming the thread.
Are we no longer allowed to speculate on one’s employment status here?
I always just assumed autographed sports memorabilia were forgeries and that genuine ones were indistinguishable from forgeries. Like those stores that used to be in shopping malls that sold framed stuff with autographs or footballs and baseballs in little cases. I assumed these were mass produced in factories and that fans didn’t really care if the autographs were real or not, they just liked the memorabilia as decorations.
Mr_Spud
I agree, I think this was a big FU to the other dealers in sports memorabilia business to harm their business as a whole. Sounded like other dealers turned him in so this was his payback before he iced himself.
I wasn't going to reply to you, but since you are so desperate for attention, I'll indulge. My reply to the other poster had nothing to do with you whatsoever, but he has a habit of being obnoxiously rude on any thread that he deems to be "off topic". With that said, he is not an authority here, and this happens to be one of the most interesting topics that had arisen in a while, with possibly massive implications for third party authentication services. '
See, for most of us here, you can view a users post and comment history dating back years, in contrast to your private profile which allows no such review. It wouldn't take you very long to see that 99% of his posts are about precious metal prices or the economy, and he rarely even contributes to the US coin forum in the first place. He frequently disparages any group of people that are not aligned with his own thinking, grading services, dealers, "sheep" and "bunker dwellers", its unlikely to find even a single comment that had a positive or friendly sentiment towards another poster. That is the reason I even felt the need to comment in the first place, because acting as the arbiter on a forum which you hardly participate in is laughable, and when he does it has been to disparage someone else's coin or collecting preferences.
Needless to say, he doesn't have too many friends here, which is why you'll find that your crusade against me won't pick up any traction. For reasons unknown, because you don't even know what I meant, or what I was actually implying. Believe it or not, I actually meant to type TRRD, implying that I was tired, definitely not that he acts like a turd or anything
.
Pay no mind to the fact that he has been jailed or temporarily banned numerous times for obnoxious or rude behavior, so it's rather comical that this is the hill you choose to die on.
See, I actually like some of the content that you post, with exception of your constant need to portray me as the villain for reasons unspecified. I spelled nothing, and even If I was calling him something that you implied in your comment, which I wasn't, It would absolutely not have been in the literal context of prior generations . Under no circumstances have I ever used that word in context to anyone with physical or mental disabilities, and have family members with similar disabilities to the one you mentioned in your first comment. So, there's really no good reason for you to insert yourself into the discussion, grasping to take umbrage as you clutch your pearls. There's plenty of offense to go around if you're constantly looking for it, hopefully you haven't been too offended in your travels outside of this very tame forum.
Don't think no one notices that you have a habit of deleting all of your comments and contributions to the forum weeks or months after the fact, leaving nothing in their place, and rendering such threads hollow and useless. See, no matter how educated you appear to be, you have much more in common with the poster whom I originally replied to, being that you leave no lasting positive contributions to this forum in addition to both being exceptionally disagreeable. Many posters over the years have either slowed, or ceased to post completely, primarily because of the type of behavior that he and you choose to exhibit. It's a shame because I don't think he was always like that, and you seem like you could be a positive asset to discussions here if you choose to be. I'm certainly not perfect myself, and despite my shortcomings, I try to make a positive impact here when I'm able to, but there need not be a spot reserved for me on the new "Victim" forum that you two can both manage and moderate if you're not satisfied with the disciplinary decisions made on this one. Good luck to you, and hopefully you aren't too offended by my verbally communicated exhaustion in the future, but thanks for your concern.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Using my working edit button. Will just wait & see if this kind of post/conduct is deemed acceptable here.
In before the lock!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I see similar posts from others. What’s the reason for them? The answer that might seem obvious would be to add to a member’s post count but there are plenty of other more meaningful opportunities to accomplish that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To be sure, the individual would have to be standing there when the item was signed.
But for authentication you would have to have a credible witness standing there as well... someone credible like San Lee
Does anyone know of a place where a person can decipher a signature yet on the Internet, maybe IA with picture search?
Haha, Mark. It's intended to be a humorous acknowledgement of a thread that's going to be locked down by our hosts. Just a joke and no, I don't care about post count. Yes, it adds nothing to the discussion because I don't think the thread is worth my contribution.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Thanks, Dan. I didn’t think you cared about your post count, which was part of the reason for my curiosity.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
my attention to post count is for purely personal snickers as i think post count intelligence is humorous
posting my way to omnipotence, mm
From the linked article...
"He’s trying to burn the industry on the way out of the door,” one autograph dealer said. “It’s clear he feels spurned and is trying to impress people.”
Translation of "on the way out of the door" = committed suicide.
I'm guessing he anticipated committing suicide was better than being tortured and killed by some of the people he screwed.
I thought the same. Maybe this is an attempt to “flood the zone” and destabilize the overall market 🤷🏻♂️
Empty Nest Collection
See, this is the part that I'm waiting for fact based confirmation. The NYT article linked above reads-
“There’s numbers being thrown around, the numbers he threw around,” Ravid said. “If the numbers were real, we wouldn’t have waited years to put that much pressure on. These aren’t the numbers. It’s grossly exaggerated to make a statement. The problem is real. The extent and the scale of it is less than what is being presented, but it is symbolic of what is happening in the industry.”
Then from the NY post-
“It’s certainly greater than zero and I have to guess that it’s less than a billion dollars. Obviously that’s a very wide range, but I think that in some cases, it may not even matter how much money it was at this point,” Sheldon said.
I'm sure it will be an obscene amount of money either way, and at this level it goes well beyond greed or ego. An amount like this is indicative of an addiction or a sickness, like BM or SBF. It's not even about the money to them at that point, it's the thrill of evading consequences.
Lastly, dedicated collectibles news outlet CLLCT published -
“He’s trying to burn the industry on the way out of the door,” one autograph dealer said. “It’s clear he feels spurned and is trying to impress people.”
That source said he thought the numbers Lemieux boasted about seemed completely unrealistic.
“If he made and sold that much, the autograph industry would have been crushed,” the source said.Longtime autograph authentication expert Steve Grad says no matter what the numbers, "this guy did years and years of damage."Grad said it's harder and harder to catch criminals because the autopen process is getting more and more nuanced.
"This might have an effect on the industry in the short-term, but people have short memories, it will bounce back," he added.
Awfully confident that the memorabilia market can recover from this, much more than I am, considering the "related stories" at the bottom.
It wasn’t like what Lemieux was doing was a secret, another industry insider said.
“He had tons of autographs from guys that didn’t do a signing in years,” one autograph dealer said.
Related Stories :
-U.S. border agents seize $1.43 million worth of fake sports merchandise
-Charges dropped against two defendants in Jason Kelce autograph fraud
-Why so many Michael Jordan autographs are fake: A cllct investigation
With modern technology, I have doubts about the sports signature market's ability tio recover from this. Frankly, I question the efficacy of baseball or Pokemon card authentication, are the graders truly able to "Catch'-em all" with modern forgery techniques? We see what we're dealing with regarding coins, and I would seem to think that coins are exponentially more difficult to make forgeries that can go undetected.
Evidently, the broad sports memorabilia market is double the size of the coin market, 34 billion vs 18 billion comparatively, and while the coin market was only projected to grow at a ~8.5% CAGR to $44 billion by 2034, according to some analysts, __sports memorabilia was sitting pretty with a projected to growth rate at a robust 22% to $271 billion in the same time frame. __
Part of me wonders if the coin market could end up benefitting, indirectly, from any spillover of funds seeking alternative assets, or if wealthy investors are more likely to turn their attention to a Ceratosaurus Skeleton, like the one that just sold on Sotheby's for 30 million. (Not gonna lie, the concept of having a dinosaur Skelton in your foyer sounds remarkably bad-ass...)
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
It's also possible it brings down all collectible markets. After all, anything can be faked if you try hard enough. And you don't have to fake coins perfectly if you can fake the authentication perfectly. When the cost of authenticating the authentication becomes larger than the value of most coins, where are we?
The people that fail to see the connection of this fraud to the coin market just aren't looking hard enough.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
It's interesting to me that this appears to have been a largely domestic operation. One would think operations overseas could exist that have the same abilities and machinery that Lemieux had access to, but that don't run the risk of having their warehouses raided. We already see this with coins.
No one is trying as hard to chieftain coins overseas. The Chinese coins are designed as souvenir reproductions which is why they are ready to spot. If someone put in a much effort on the coin side, we would have a much bigger problem. The whole goal of the Chinese operations is to make them cheaply not perfectly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I agree that the overwhelming majority of Chinese counterfeits are crude fakes, but there are some really high end fakes being produced too in limited quantities. Ones that sometimes get past TPGs. @burfle23 has posted some of these in the past.
I suppose I was trying more to say that even with Lemieux gone, what would prevent the Chinese from producing merchandise exactly like he was but without the fear of being closed down. Despite this raid, I think the risk to the sports memorabilia market still remains.
Do we know that they don't? As you pointed out, there would be no raid to hit the news.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.