What do you think - same obverse die? (update in last post)

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TwoKopeiki
TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 20, 2025 9:12PM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

Coin #1:

Coin #2:

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  • Rexford
    Rexford Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes, it would certainly appear so.

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  • realeswatcher
    realeswatcher Posts: 537 ✭✭✭✭
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    Quite possibly... based on how the legend lettering and his chicken feathers line up with the denticles, plus how TI of GRATIA interacts with the edge.

  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I compared some of the small die chips and i believe it's the same obverse die, as well. The chatter around the last digit of the date, the small chips at the base of the T in GRATIA, the odd spike inside of an S in CAROLUS. Which is cool, because it means i found another 1789/8 overdate. The first coin posted is a one in my collection already and in a properly attributed pcgs plastic.

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  • syl
    syl Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭✭
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    The 1's in the date are different to me. The foot of the 1 on the first one is right on the denticles. The foot on the 2nd shows a gap. The base of the 7's may be different as well.

  • Euclid
    Euclid Posts: 128 ✭✭✭✭
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    The relative spacing of the letters in GRATIA appears the same (rather large gaps between GR and AT) and it looks like you can see the portion of the overdate in the same place at the bottom left of both 9s.

  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @syl said:
    The 1's in the date are different to me. The foot of the 1 on the first one is right on the denticles. The foot on the 2nd shows a gap. The base of the 7's may be different as well.

    I think it's the same - look at the die chatter at the bottom of the 7 digit. Also, the dentils under the 1 show a small dip on the second coin, which you can kind of also see in the first one.

    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • Rexford
    Rexford Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @syl said:
    The 1's in the date are different to me. The foot of the 1 on the first one is right on the denticles. The foot on the 2nd shows a gap. The base of the 7's may be different as well.

    If anything that’s just die erosion.

    Because these dies are hand-punched, you won’t find two different dies with the exact same spacing between the lettering, portrait, and date, relative to the denticles and to each other. The spacing is all the same, so it’s the same die.

    Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
    https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en

  • Plus00Vltra
    Plus00Vltra Posts: 126 ✭✭✭
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    @Euclid said:
    The relative spacing of the letters in GRATIA appears the same (rather large gaps between GR and AT) and it looks like you can see the portion of the overdate in the same place at the bottom left of both 9s.

    Top of the 9 too. That plus the GRA TI A already mentioned makes it look like a match.

  • SmEagle1795
    SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,209 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Just guessing but I think that'd slab "countermarked"

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  • JohnnyCache
    JohnnyCache Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 3, 2025 4:32PM
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    All the chops really add noise but I would say yes.

     
     

  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks for doing the photoshopping JC!

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  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Received the coin. Does appear to be the 1789/8 overdate and the same die pair as used on the example I already have in the collection. Yonaka M8-89-IIIa - R3 with under 5 examples documented.

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