How common are cuds on Bust half dimes?

Manorcourtman · June 18, 2025 11:08AM

Not my series but I collect cuds! I'm looking at a low grade 1832 with two obverse cuds as a type coin. I have a pic posted below. I believe it's a LM-12 (R2). It's cleaned but a cheap filler for my collection. Cuds on coins has no mention or pics of Bust half dimes. I'd like to hear what the experts here have to say about cuds in the series. I appreciate any input!

yosclimber · June 18, 2025 12:54PM

The Logan McCloskey book includes many cud descriptions in "Obv. Die State" and "Rev. Die State".
They include plates of some of the more dramatic cuds.
You specified "bust", so I'll include both draped bust and capped bust.

Year	LM	Side	Description
1797	1	Rev	shallow rim cud in dentils over ME
1797	2	Rev	shallow rim cud in dentils over ME
1800	1	Obv	die break in dentils under 00 in date
1800	3, 4	Obv	cud like crack left of date at rim
1801	2	Obv	cud like die die bulges at RT and under bust to rim
1803	1	Obv	rim cud from bust to rim right of date
1829	3	Rev	full cud from top of IT to rim
1829	6.2, 6.3, 7.2, 7.3, 8	Rev	small cud in dentils above M
1829	7.3	Rev	retained cud above ER
1830	1.2	Rev	cud through ERI, cud at top of A2
1830	3	Obv	full cud at S8-S9 (JRCS Journals 2022 front cover)
1830	3	Obv	retained cud tops of NITE (JRCS Journals 2022 back cover)
1830	5	Obv	large cud from rim to outside points of S6 to rim over S5
1830	9.3	Rev	retained cud at tops of NIT (JRCS Journals 2023 back cover)
1831	1.3	Rev	retained cud at tops of NIT
1831	2	Rev	cud from rim through top of R to rim
1831	3	Obv	retained cud at rim from S2 to S4
1832	4	Obv	retained cud above cap
1832	5	Rev	retained cud through TED STA
1832	10.4	Rev	cud between top of scroll and F A, huge cud over scroll at TES OF A
1833	1	Rev	retained cud above scroll through ED STATE
1833	3.5	Rev	large rim cud through NITE
1833	4.3	Rev	cud between top of scroll and F A
1833	6	Rev	cud at CA
1833	8	Rev	huge retained cud through ITED STA
1834	1	Rev	retained cud at top of ED
1835	1	Rev	cud through ITE
1835	3	Rev	cud between CA
1835	4	Rev	cud at UNI
1835	5.2	Rev	cud through D STATE
1835	9.2	Rev	large cud through TED
1836	1.1, 1.2	Rev	small cud above L
1836	1.2	Rev	large cud through TED, large cud through STAT
1836	3	Rev	cud from top of A2 to rim

Note: the cuds above are for late die states in the marriage / remarriage.
So not every coin for the die marriage / remarriage may have the cud(s).
Logan and McCloskey wrote this with the word "forms" to indicate the early die states do not have the feature,
but the late die states have it. I did not include the word "forms" to make it easier to read.

For the 1832 LM-12 you showed, the book shows no cracks or cuds at S5-S6 or S8, or in later die states (LM-13, 14) for this obverse.
So I think this coin has wear or damage there, not cuds.
Half dimes are fairly thin, and impacts to the reverse can cause bends which create wear patterns like this.

Many bust half dime cuds are available for collecting, though!

Here is an 1832 LM-10.4 that @Bikergeek posted to a different thread.

Many bust half dime, dime, quarter, half dollar, dollar cud photos on the JRCS website:
https://www.jrcs.org/jrcs_late_die_showcase.php

jesbroken · June 18, 2025 4:04PM

Is this a CUD or CRUD at 5 o'clock, 1829 BHDime? Or just pmd.
Jim

jesbroken · June 18, 2025 4:19PM

Here are a few of my possibilities of CUD's.
Jim

jesbroken · June 18, 2025 4:21PM

I also like to use Bikergeek's CUD chart.
Jim

yosclimber · June 18, 2025 6:10PM

@jesbroken said:
Is this a CUD or CRUD at 5 o'clock, 1829 BHDime? Or just pmd.
Jim

The table I posted has no Obv cuds for 1829, so not a cud.

yosclimber · June 18, 2025 6:18PM

@jesbroken said:
Here are a few of my possibilities of CUD's.
Jim
[1829 not a cud]

[1833 not a cud that I could see]

4 1831 LM-1.3 with retained cud above NIT in the middle are not just possibilities.

yosclimber · June 18, 2025 6:20PM

@jesbroken said:
I also like to use Bikergeek's CUD chart.

Did he post a half dime CUD chart here somewhere?
I don't recall seeing one.

He did post that thread with the capped bust dime cud chart in December.
Is that what you meant?

jesbroken · June 18, 2025 7:07PM

@yosclimber
Not sure if it was posted here or not. Sean sent me copy of a Bust Half Dime CUD excel sheet last year. It has a couple more than the above chart has, if I remember correctly, 1830 LM-9.3 and 1833 LM-4.3. I didn't post it, as it is mostly the same information.
Jim

Edited to add: The file Sean sent me for the CBDime CUD's is corrupted and cannot open it anylonger, it was a Word file. The CBHDime excel file is fine, but without the original photos.
Jim

Barndog · June 18, 2025 7:48PM

just because a half dime looks like it has a cud does not mean it truly has a cud, as has been pointed out a bit here in the thread. The JR Journal and the JRCS website have more information. Collecting cuds is the passion of some collectors, seeking very late die state coins preferentially over other cool half dimes. The 1830 LM-9.3 previously mentioned here has one known of the die remarriage (and it has a cud). That coin has a pretty hole in it too!

davewesen · June 18, 2025 8:12PM

The bottom half of the 8 in the date is filled, is that a die chip?

yosclimber · June 18, 2025 8:46PM

@davewesen said:
The bottom half of the 8 in the date is filled, is that a die chip?

Yes.

pcgsregistrycollector · June 18, 2025 10:17PM

@Manorcourtman said:
Not my series but I collect cuds! I'm looking at a low grade 1832 with two obverse cuds as a type coin. I have a pic posted below. I believe it's a LM-12 (R2). It's cleaned but a cheap filler for my collection. Cuds on coins has no mention or pics of Bust half dimes. I'd like to hear what the experts here have to say about cuds in the series. I appreciate any input!

Cud coins are expensive right? I heard of a dude who only collects cud dimes and half dimes. He pays big bucks.

yosclimber · June 18, 2025 11:01PM

@jesbroken said:
@yosclimber
Not sure if it was posted here or not. Sean sent me copy of a Bust Half Dime CUD excel sheet last year. It has a couple more than the above chart has, if I remember correctly, 1830 LM-9.3 and 1833 LM-4.3. I didn't post it, as it is mostly the same information.
Jim

Edited to add: The file Sean sent me for the CBDime CUD's is corrupted and cannot open it anylonger, it was a Word file. The CBHDime excel file is fine, but without the original photos.
Jim

Thanks. I added the 2 you listed and 1830 LM-3 from the JRCS Journal 2022 cover.
I also read about the 1830 LM-9.3 in the JRCS Journal 2023 on the Newman Numismatic Portal and added a loose page for it to my LM book.

yosclimber · June 18, 2025 11:03PM

@pcgsregistrycollector said:

@Manorcourtman said:
Not my series but I collect cuds! I'm looking at a low grade 1832 with two obverse cuds as a type coin. I have a pic posted below. I believe it's a LM-12 (R2). It's cleaned but a cheap filler for my collection. Cuds on coins has no mention or pics of Bust half dimes. I'd like to hear what the experts here have to say about cuds in the series. I appreciate any input!

Cud coins are expensive right? I heard of a dude who only collects cud dimes and half dimes. He pays big bucks.

The rare ones can be expensive, if the seller is aware.
There are also some which are plentiful.

jesbroken · June 19, 2025 1:09AM

The rare ones can be expensive, if the seller is aware.
There are also some which are "plentiful".

Like the 1831 LM-1.3, lol.
Jim

Bikergeek · June 19, 2025 8:16AM

@yosclimber and @jesbroken - here's the Capped Bust half dime cud listing (including rarity) that I look at, courtesy of @Barndog who is too modest to put the link here. :-)

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/583797

Scroll on down to page 44.

(Jim, I didn't remember giving a Word version of this material to ya... but then again, I don't remember what I had for supper yesterday). Lol...

jesbroken · June 19, 2025 10:31AM

(Jim, I didn't remember giving a Word version of this material to ya... but then again, I don't remember what I had for supper yesterday). Lol...

Hmmm. Can't imagine where I got it from, but doesn't matter, it won't open. lol
Jim

yosclimber · June 19, 2025 11:38AM

@Bikergeek said:
@yosclimber and @jesbroken - here's the Capped Bust half dime cud listing (including rarity) that I look at, courtesy of @Barndog who is too modest to put the link here. :-)

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/583797

Scroll on down to page 44.

Perfect article, thanks!

Here's a screen capture of the main table, with rarity based on counts of known examples as of April 2020.

jesbroken · June 19, 2025 3:16PM

Nice having the rarities of just the CUDs and not the LM rarity.
Jim

Bikergeek · June 22, 2025 9:55AM

The one that isn't in the table, and which @Barndog mentioned above, is 1830 LM-9.3. It comes after 1831 LM-1.3, which has the cud over NIT - and which @jesbroken was kind enough to share a few images of above. If you find an 1830 half dime with a cud over NIT - I'll give you at least ten times face value for it!

Now, related to the June attribution challenge - here's an 1829 LM-3 with cud over IT.

jesbroken · June 22, 2025 11:05AM

Surely, you meant 1829. lol
Jim

Barndog · June 22, 2025 7:29PM

@jesbroken said:
Surely, you meant 1829. lol
Jim

typo, he meant what he talked about in the third sentence (1830)

jesbroken · June 22, 2025 7:39PM

My bad.
Jim

Bikergeek · June 22, 2025 8:27PM

@Barndog said:

@jesbroken said:
Surely, you meant 1829. lol
Jim

typo, he meant what he talked about in the third sentence (1830)

Oops... fixed it.

yosclimber · June 23, 2025 12:45AM

@Bikergeek said:
The one that isn't in the table, and which @Barndog mentioned above, is 1830 LM-9.3. It comes after 1831 LM-1.3, which has the cud over NIT - and which @jesbroken was kind enough to share a few images of above.

Right, because Barndog's table was from 2020, and 1830 LM 9.3 was not discovered until 2021.

If you find an 1830 half dime with a cud over NIT - I'll give you at least ten times face value for it!

You probably meant to say 10 times price guide for it.
10 times face value is only 50c; less than melt.

Bikergeek · June 23, 2025 8:26AM

@yosclimber said:

@Bikergeek said:
The one that isn't in the table, and which @Barndog mentioned above, is 1830 LM-9.3. It comes after 1831 LM-1.3, which has the cud over NIT - and which @jesbroken was kind enough to share a few images of above.

Right, because Barndog's table was from 2020, and 1830 LM 9.3 was not discovered until 2021.

If you find an 1830 half dime with a cud over NIT - I'll give you at least ten times face value for it!

You probably meant to say 10 times price guide for it.
10 times face value is only 50c; less than melt.

Clint, no, that one wasn't a typo. It's what we in these here parts call "a joke." heheh! But ten times price guide for type is probably still even low. Net net: I feel like I'm going to have to cherry-pick one (if another one even exists).

yosclimber · June 23, 2025 1:05PM

Ah, I see. There is an old trick of adding a smiley face if you want to make sure people know it's a joke.

How common are cuds on Bust half dimes?

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