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Ebay Images and Copyright
FlyingAl
Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was looking at an eBay listing today, and noticed this CAC sticker looked awfully familiar. One of my photography techniques is to do a replacement of the CAC sticker to make it uniformly attractive, and I use a particular image for that. It's fairly unique, but I've noticed sellers doing their own version of it over time. Never had an issue with that, so long as they used their own images.
I think this seller has stolen my image off of one of the slab shots I have posted, but I wanted to be sure. The weakness at the top and bottom of the second C in CAC is what appears to be the best match.
Seller pic:
My image:
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Comments
I see some slight differences, but come on man... Isn't your time more valuable than worrying if someone copied a cac sticker picture you may have or may not have imaged? How would you even go about proving you own the rights to such a picture? > @FlyingAl said:
It looks the same, but I doubt he would have done that.
Don’t think so. The furthest left fragment of a letter looks different.
It is the same image no doubt, but I don't think that it was an illegal act by copying it.
After all, we're talking about eBay here.
eBay has no bearing on the legality of copying and using images.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I don't believe they are the same image. Obviously, the one from ebay has a lower resolution, but there are several things that appear in one image that don't in another.
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It does if they have terms and conditions that allow it. The terms are a little permissive but not completely permissive.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/images-videos-text-policy?id=4240&st=3&pos=1&query=Images, videos and text policy&intent=are photos copy righted&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1242
That was a waste of time, here I was thinking someone may be doing something bad with CAC stickers.
“Legality” isn’t the same thing as eBay’s listing policies.
Something can be “legal” but at the same time, against eBay policy. And hopefully, “illegal” practices aren’t allowed by eBay policies. eBay isn’t the arbiter of what’s legal.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You're the lawyer, but if ebay's T&C essentially requires that any uploaded images belong to eBay, that is legal is it not?
I believe they are the same photo. CAC stickers (you know) are tricky to get perfect. Just a simple degree of change can make the sticker look drastically different.
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You’re still talking about compliance with eBay’s terms and conditions/policies. Someone who has produced an image and wants to post it to eBay has a choice of whether to agree to their terms or not post it. But I don’t think ebay policy can circumvent copyright laws. Class is now out until the fall.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm talking about posting an image to eBay not applying the T&C to any old image. Ebay T&C states that, under certain conditions, any images pasted there can be used by others on eBay. So, if this image came from ebay, ebay's T&C matters.
Solved.
Solved.
I'm not for or against anyone with this matter. I don't have a dog in this fight but you'd have a tough time proving anything in this particular case. That hologram is the same on all stickers. Therefore anyone is "capable" of doing the identical thing that you have done. If your image was unique then most likely.
I can understand why it's upsetting to you but I believe what I wrote is true.
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The slab shot seems to show an imperfect bean shape, as if the original sticker was tilted a tiny bit to the right and the cover-up sticker wasn't adjusted for that. I agree with gtstang that this might not be worth pursuing. Even if the seller admits to using your photo, who's to say eBay will care?
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It is NOT if you or a customer posted the image on eBay as your posting of the image potentially grants use rights per the eBay user agreement.
Oooh, that's clever. Very very interesting legally too, since there's a lot of grey area there.
Yes. I don't know how that works especially if your customer is using an image for which you hold the copyright.
He would never be able to hold a copyright of that image. It's a cac sticker "logo" image and since technically cac owns that copyright, he can't legally take it and sell as his own.
That was just what I was about to say - can you even claim any rights to photographing a trademark image that is already under someone else’s copyright? Seems kinda shaky.
Not to mention that CAC runs off these logo stickers by the thousands. It would be impossible to prove that none of the stickers could be mistaken for yours.
My concern would be that a seller is photoshopping these sticker images onto their slab images. That would be pretty pointless; upon receipt of the slab it would be obvious that there was never any sticker there.
If it's a concern have you reached out to the seller? That's usually a good place to start.
For 0.3 of a second helping out was a thought.
Logo rule's of reproduction.
The Commercial logo owner is responsible for supplying all logo art work.
A commercial logo IN QUESTION can only be authenticated by the marketing department of the logo owner.
But that's just me.
So if a photographer takes a photo of a painting in a gallery, he doesn't own the copyright to the photo because he doesn't own the copyright to the painting? That is not correct. He can't own the copyright to the CAC logo, but he owns the copyright to the image of the CAC logo.
Do you think the US Mint owns the copyright to a photograph you take of a Washington quarter?
If I sell clothing,
using the NFL shield logo on the clothing,
without permission from the NFL,
outside an NFL game in progress,
could I be arrested ?
No, but you could be sued by the NFL.
You can. The photograph is a completely different thing vs the logo.
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I’m a big fan of OP’s photographic skills and have paid for those services multiple times, but “copyrighting” the lighting on a trademarked CAC sticker falls squarely into the realm of the absurd IMO.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
It strikes me as embarrassing that this is what the forum has become.
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It's unfortunate @FlyingAl , not all of us can be as smart as @Maywood . He'll be sure to let you know.
Wait...what's embarrassing now? Bragging on an internet forum about how smart one is? Next thing we know he'll break out the tape measure 🙄 If @keets was still around he would never stand for this behavior.
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Over the years, I've seen a few of the photographs and graphic design products I've made randomly pop up on other sites. If it helps with someone else's sale, that's great, but if someone is claiming the work as their own... then I'll have an issue. I worry a fair bit about licensing and working with material created by others, a relic of my days in film school, and having had a few people ask me how I do something and then try to prevent me from doing that something has caused me to hesitate offering tips on some of these skills I have.
I don't think I have the best skills in anything, but if someone takes my techniques and shuts me out, I do feel like I'm losing part of my identity.
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@FlyingAl it's not even a bad post. Even though I agree with some of the others (especially after @jmlanzaf showed the eBay policy), I understand not being thrilled that someone might be copying your work.
Well, evidently this thread was a mistake in retrospect. It is what it is now and I can't change the past. My memes above are mostly making fun of myself, and I do think it's important to realize when you've made a mistake and move on from it. Learn what you can, and move on. Mistakes are to be expected, and you've just got to pick yourself up and move on from them.
I won't try to explain my reasoning here as I feel it might just make things worse.
If I offended anyone, apologies. Otherwise, I invite everyone to enjoy some memes at the end.
Alex, it appears that something which felt very important to you, was apparently considered unimportant or trivial to others. But at one time or another, that’s probably happened to many/most of us who post here. And for what it’s worth, seeing the pride you take in your photography, I can understand why the issue was of such importance to you.
I need to give it a bit of thought, but even after this, I think I might keep reading your posts.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I didn't take offense to it. IDK why everyones flaming u
There was nothing wrong with the post.
Do you think the US Mint owns the copyright ?
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Yes. You goin' to jail now, I called the po-lice.
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I really don't think there was anything wrong with the post. It actually created a meaningful discussion about eBay photos.
You do not need to apologize or feel bad about it.
But you can and have changed the past here and other times by deleting content.
I would like to read about your research on SMS coins, but at least on the forum here it's gone.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1094235/origins-of-the-1964-sms-coins-info-now-published-in-nov-2024-the-numismatist/p1
I understand there may have been flaws in some of your posts, but consider allowing others the opportunity to still learn rather than worrying about what people think when something doesn't go over well.
You're more than welcome to read the post quoted at the top of the page.
The SMS research was published, which means I'm required to remove it from other sources. You're more than welcome to read it in the November 2024 issue of The Numismatist.
If you are required to remove that information then fair enough. Look, I think you bring a lot to this forum and I very much enjoy reading your posts and comments. Even this thread here was informative and beneficial. I had never even thought of superimposing a more eye appealing CAC sticker over a slab image until I heard that you did it here. There was also some good discussion about copyright and what to do when images are used without ones permission. All I'm suggesting is don't bury a thread just because it doesn't work out the way you wanted.
I hope the OP doesn't make a habit out of throwing his sucker in the sand everytime a thread doesn't go exactly his way.
And I hope you don’t make a habit of being so unforgiving of threads that aren’t your cup of tea.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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Lol. The issue isn't about wasting time or not wasting time. It's whether anything could be learned by the reader
I didn't hold it against the OP for raising an issue that was important to him, and there was some thoughtful discussion and debate about the topic.
However, I am usually opposed to posters scrubbing a thread of its premise once they've gotten their answer, or in this case, once the issue went in a direction they didn't intend.
These sanitized threads (and titles) are just litter on the forum.
I will have to learn to cope with your disappointment.
(PS: I forgive you.)