Eagles vs Buffalos
Newbiedoobiedoo
Posts: 59 ✭✭
Newbie question here. It may have been asked before, if so I apologize.
Why are Buffalos at .999 fine gold basically the same prices as equivalent year/condition Eagles which have a smaller percentage of gold? I'm thinking about BU condition, different years. I looked at a couple of sites (Costco, and JM - if I remember correctly) and wondered why that was. Also, does anyone know if they have considered smaller coinage for Buffs like 1/2 oz?
Thanks! - Kelly
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Comments
Only year with fractional buffs is 2008-w and those trade multiples of spot.
Buffs and Eagles have the same AGW despite AGE being .9167 and Buffs being .999
Their gold weights are the same. Just their percentages are different.
Buffs are a purer gold, but both contain 1 full oz of gold. Eagles weigh more because of the added alloy to make the metal harder. I prefer the buff for a better long term gain.
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i prefer buffs but am not the market
Thanks everyone! I had been looking at a table that showed the "metallic weight" on both to be one ounce so I assumed that the "metallic weight" was the total weight of each coin, not the weight of gold in each coin. I learned something new. I also didn't know that they had made fractional buffs before. Bummer that it was only for one year. I was thinking that a 1/10 oz would make a great gift for someone.
2008-w buffs are AWESOME but they are also 600+
Questions are welcome when presented in good faith!
I personally love Buffalos.
I wish the fractional buffalo would have been a longer run like for years. Just a thought
(q)Gold Bullion Coins.—
(1)In general.—
Not later than 6 months after the date of enactment of the Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005, the Secretary shall commence striking and issuing for sale such number of $50 gold bullion and proof coins as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate, in such quantities, as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe.
(2)Initial design.—
(A)In general.—
Except as provided under subparagraph (B), the obverse and reverse of the gold bullion coins struck under this subsection during the first year of issuance shall bear the original designs by James Earle Fraser, which appear on the 5-cent coin commonly referred to as the “Buffalo nickel” or the “1913 Type 1”.
(B)Variations.—The coins referred to in subparagraph (A) shall—
(i)have inscriptions of the weight of the coin and the nominal denomination of the coin incused in that portion of the design on the reverse of the coin commonly known as the “grassy mound”; and
(ii)bear such other inscriptions as the Secretary determines to be appropriate.
(3)Source of gold bullion.—
(A)In general.—
The Secretary shall acquire gold for the coins issued under this subsection by purchase of gold mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within 1 year after the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined.
(B)Price of gold.—
The Secretary shall pay not more than the average world price for the gold mined under subparagraph (A).
(4)Sale of coins.—Each gold bullion coin issued under this subsection shall be sold for an amount the Secretary determines to be appropriate, but not less than the sum of—
(A)the market value of the bullion at the time of sale; and
(B)the cost of designing and issuing the coins, including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, and shipping.
(5)Legal tender.—
The coins minted under this title shall be legal tender, as provided in section 5103.
(6)Treatment as numismatic items.—
For purposes of section 1 5134 and 5136, all coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items.
i think they have the legal authority right now to mint frac buff bullion
the best case for it is the price of gold and affordability of fractionals
worst case for fractional buffs is high demand for the gold eagles and limited mint gold stock. Eagles will always come first, they are required to be struck to meet demand.
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the age has the latitude of minting to demand
the buffs "in such quantities, as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe."
so, i agree the age has more force behind the minting requirements, but if the demand for both is there, then it is possible
is the mint constantly "pressed" in making age?
age's come first
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yes
but do they have room for buffs, esp 1/10ths?
i looked for sales figues on the mint site but only see dates up to 2016 then monthly for 2025
https://www.kitco.com/news/article/2025-01-08/us-perth-mints-see-sharp-drop-bullion-demand-2024-royal-mint-sees-record-q4
Interesting discussion. At the current price of gold I would think that more US mines would be able to invest in extracting more metal. More US gold for buffs. 😁 However, in reading derryb's post it sounds like it could be a capacity issue. I don't have much gold. I have 1 AGE and 1 buff and a couple of fractional eagles. I'm just getting into it. I bought them for $1800 oz so I'm happy it's doing well though I will pay more for new coins. I'm going to buy more. I just heard that our state is going to start collecting sales tax on precious metals in 2025. I hope that they come to their senses. Everyone will just go out of state but it means we're going to pay on eBay and the big bullion sellers. It's just going to hurt the small shops. 🙄
Mint has had plenty of opportunity and gold stock to mint fractional buffs since 2008. They have chosen not to.
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I just heard that our state is going to start collecting sales tax on precious metals in 2025. I hope that they come to their senses. Everyone will just go out of state but it means we're going to pay on eBay and the big bullion sellers. It's just going to hurt the small shops. 🙄
If I may ask, which state are you in? I remember being at a show and making the decision NOT to buy from a Minnesota dealer because of the sales tax. That was years ago. There are now quite a few states moving to eliminate state sales and capital gains taxes from sales of bullion. Let's hope that the trend continues.
I knew it would happen.
Gold is now mainstream and popular. An excellent tax target for cash hungry states.
Off topic: the tax cut on tips - it's for cash tips only, tips that likely never got reported anyway. Always tip your server with cash.
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Probably Maryland or Washington; both repealed their sales tax exemptions.
https://www.greysheet.com/news/story/governors-of-maryland-and-washington-repeal-coin-and-bullion-sales-tax-exemptions/0
Wow, I missed that news. I spend a lot of time in Seattle. I don’t think I’m going to be buying much gold there!
taxing investments. suppose bonds will have interest tax, capital gain tax and sales tax!
No sales taxes on bullion in The Commonwealth. God bless the Commonwealth. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
The tax on bullion will kill Washington coin stores. You will also see mail order companies stop shipping to Washington. The sales tax is bad enough (averages 9.5%), but Washington has a B&O tax on gross receipts. Any company that ships $100,000 of product into Washington during a calendar year has nexus and must begin collecting retail sales tax and pay the B&O. The B&O will increase to .5% on July 1 and is levied on gross sales in Washington. A Bullion Exchange or Apmex sells an ounce of gold for $3400, they will have a $17 B&O tax liability. They won't be eating that - Washington residents will pay more to buy from them. Or they will do what many of the online ammunition sellers are doing - block Washington addresses and avoid the market.
As for the local B&M, they will have to expand their non-Washington internet sales or hope people won't cross over into Idaho or Oregon and purchase tax free. Considering tax would be $325 on an ounce of gold or $2300 on a bag of 90%, I know what I would do.
@taxmad What is B&O?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Business and Occupation tax. It is a tax on the gross receipts of a business and varies depending on the business type. Right now, .471% on Retailers, .484 on Wholesalers, 1.5% on Service businesses (accountants, doctors, banks, etc. - goes up to $1.75 if you exceed $1 million in the prior year). It is a bit brutal for a high income/low margin company. You only owe your Washington sales, so Amazon does not pay on income it earns for selling widgets to people in other States. It is unique and easy to miss when you are setting up a business - most out of state companies think 'we sell wholesale and Washington does not have an income tax, so we are done there' only to have a unpleasant surprise years later. They will look back 7 years and charge 34% penalties plus interest... If you should have charged sales tax and didn't, it can bankrupt a business rather quickly
I'm in Washington State. They've got a big budget hole to fill and are looking for "creative" ways to do that. While they've made budget cuts they're not enough to plug the leak.
Yes, it's a total bummer. I'll buy out of state but it's not at all convenient.
Hey, has anyone here bought a gold coin while in Canada? Did they tax you?
Most precious metals bullion in Canada is exempt from GST/HST. Provided the precious metals are defined as coins, bars, ingots, or wafers of gold, silver and platinum. Additionally, they must be refined to a minimum purity of 99.50% for Gold and Platinum, and 99.9% for silver.
AGE/Krug would be subject to GST/HST or 12%.
Okay, so it's almost like buying buffs. I'll have to check the exchange rate when I go there in August. I forgot that's another element to consider. I doubt most places will take credit cards like Costco will.
I sold all my eagles this past year, but I kept all my buffs. I also live in WA state, so starting Jan 2026 I will have to pay 8.9% sales tax! on PM's. This will close several small coin shops or certainly hurt their profits as many buyers will run away.
Thankfully, I am moving to Ohio when my house is finished being built this November. Ohio does not charge sales tax (new law passed in 2021) on PM coins, but it does have a state capital gains tax of 2.75-3.5% on income from coin sales.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
They just stopped charging Sales Tax on bullion in NJ. I had stopped buying online because all of the Bullion dealers were forced to charge it. Now that they stopped collecting it the price of gold has exploded and silver prices are up about $10 per ounce over what they were before they started adding it. I also prefer Buffalos to AGE but the premiums are higher.
Mike
MIKE B.
What is that for, 1/10th ounce ??
2 versions of the 08-w fractionals.
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When gold a few months ago was $2642 I traded some 5,10, and 25 buffs for an American eagle, Buffalo, and a circulated 1904 double eagle. I am glad I traded as I had the buffs long enough and now I am pretty much into straight bullion! I paid less than 400 for 5s,around 1000 for 10s. I am glad I traded. I'm 71 and am starting to get rid of stuff especially numismatic and collector stuff!
hope you got the full value on the fractional buffs, they bring a hefty premium as they were made only one year
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