Where did that 20 to 30% of market value come from? The article only says that he paid $16,000 for SOME of the loot. It never says how much he bought. If the dealer paid fair market value, does that change your opinion?
I'm not saying that Mr. Simon is definitely innocent. But I also don't objective him to be guilty.
It was a guess, since that is the way fencing stolen goods works. If it were one time, sure, I agree with you. If the transactions happened repeatedly, then no, I disagree with you.
Sorry JM, he didn't pay fair market value, because that is not how fencing stolen goods work and he would not be facing charges otherwise.
Where did that 20 to 30% of market value come from? The article only says that he paid $16,000 for SOME of the loot. It never says how much he bought. If the dealer paid fair market value, does that change your opinion?
I'm not saying that Mr. Simon is definitely innocent. But I also don't objective him to be guilty.
It was a guess, since that is the way fencing stolen goods works. If it were one time, sure, I agree with you. If the transactions happened repeatedly, then no, I disagree with you.
Sorry JM, he didn't pay fair market value, because that is not how fencing stolen goods work and he would not be facing charges otherwise.
The article Dan posted has more details which make it less likely that it was a simple mistake. The first article posted really doesn't have enough detail to even prove that he was fencing.
So, you are saying that no innocent person has ever been accused of a crime?
Disclaimer; I've paid fair wholesale market value for all the stolen goods that I've knowingly and unknowingly purchased.
Where did that 20 to 30% of market value come from? The article only says that he paid $16,000 for SOME of the loot. It never says how much he bought. If the dealer paid fair market value, does that change your opinion?
I'm not saying that Mr. Simon is definitely innocent. But I also don't objective him to be guilty.
It was a guess, since that is the way fencing stolen goods works. If it were one time, sure, I agree with you. If the transactions happened repeatedly, then no, I disagree with you.
Sorry JM, he didn't pay fair market value, because that is not how fencing stolen goods work and he would not be facing charges otherwise.
The article Dan posted has more details which make it less likely that it was a simple mistake. The first article posted really doesn't have enough detail to even prove that he was fencing.
So, you are saying that no innocent person has ever been accused of a crime?
LOL? Are you arguing just to argue? Are you saying meeting Columbians in a hotel with jewelry worth hundreds of thousands, up to a million dollars is just innocence?
Give me an example of why someone would meet at a Hotel room to transact instead of Mr. Simon's physical location? Go ahead.
My sense is @jmlanzaf is saying that now that he has seen the ADDITIONAL information about this case provided by @PeakRarities, he agrees that Mr. Simon is likely not innocent. The original post had much less detailed information.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Where did that 20 to 30% of market value come from? The article only says that he paid $16,000 for SOME of the loot. It never says how much he bought. If the dealer paid fair market value, does that change your opinion?
I'm not saying that Mr. Simon is definitely innocent. But I also don't objective him to be guilty.
It was a guess, since that is the way fencing stolen goods works. If it were one time, sure, I agree with you. If the transactions happened repeatedly, then no, I disagree with you.
Sorry JM, he didn't pay fair market value, because that is not how fencing stolen goods work and he would not be facing charges otherwise.
The article Dan posted has more details which make it less likely that it was a simple mistake. The first article posted really doesn't have enough detail to even prove that he was fencing.
So, you are saying that no innocent person has ever been accused of a crime?
LOL? Are you arguing just to argue? Are you saying meeting Columbians in a hotel with jewelry worth hundreds of thousands, up to a million dollars is just innocence?
Give me an example of why someone would meet at a Hotel room to transact instead of Mr. Simon's physical location? Go ahead.
I once bought 30 ounces of gold from a guy in an apartment above a store. We paid cash ($35,000 at the time). The guy didn't have a car and wanted us to come to him. He wanted cash because he was allegedly going through a divorce and didn't want a paper trail. I was very uncomfortable the whole time, but we did the deal. He had another 70 ounces he was holding onto, but we never heard from him again. (Not that I would have gone back. ) I do not know if he was Columbian or not.
As for Mr Simon, the hotel was in Florida. Simon's store is in NY. How they made initial contact is not discussed in the original article.
Why would I not meet my fence at his physical location, by the way?
@winesteven said:
My sense is @jmlanzaf is saying that now that he has seen the ADDITIONAL information about this case provided by @PeakRarities, he agrees that Mr. Simon is likely not innocent. The original post had much less detailed information.
Steve
That is exactly what I'm saying. The minimal details in the first article could have been a very innocent transaction. As I've openly admitted, I've had similar transactions myself involving both definitely stolen goods (learned after the fact) and suspicious goods that may or may not have been stolen.
The more complete story involves multiple purchases as well as shipping boxes of cash. THAT would be highly unlikely to be innocent.
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why nt send it to a refiner?
How do we know they didn't?
how do we know it's really him and not an unknown twin brother using a stolen identity?
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why not send it to a refiner?
…..because… it was stolen. You think refiners keep no records of what’s melted?
I know what you are saying but i know dealers who scrap millions in jewelry per year. If you crack the stones out and break a few chains, it would be very hard to identify it as the stolen jewelry unless it was a very unique design.
I'm not sure what we're quibbling about. He did send it to a refiner, and apparently;y he felt the need to melt some of it first, which leads me to believe some of it was rather unique, and it's not hard to melt gold.
Again though, what are we even talking about? The story said " millions worth of baubles" that he paid $16,000 for. Where does it say he paid 95% of melt? Re read the thread if you need to, but it seems like you're nitpicking my comment which was a response to @msmorrisine's comments which I'm not sure what his point is anyway.
"Sometimes, the indictment states, Simon concealed his activities by melting gold jewelry and selling it to a refiner."
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why nt send it to a refiner?
How do we know they didn't?
how do we know it's really him and not an unknown twin brother using a stolen identity?
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why not send it to a refiner?
…..because… it was stolen. You think refiners keep no records of what’s melted?
I know what you are saying but i know dealers who scrap millions in jewelry per year. If you crack the stones out and break a few chains, it would be very hard to identify it as the stolen jewelry unless it was a very unique design.
I'm not sure what we're quibbling about. He did send it to a refiner, and apparently;y he felt the need to melt some of it first, which leads me to believe some of it was rather unique, and it's not hard to melt gold.
Again though, what are we even talking about? The story said " millions worth of baubles" that he paid $16,000 for. Where does it say he paid 95% of melt? Re read the thread if you need to, but it seems like you're nitpicking my comment which was a response to @msmorrisine's comments which I'm not sure what his point is anyway.
"Sometimes, the indictment states, Simon concealed his activities by melting gold jewelry and selling it to a refiner."
I didn't think we were quibbling.
However, it doesn't say he paid $16k for millions. It said he paid $16k for SOME of the million dollar haul. It could be $16k for $17k worth it out could be $16k for $100k worth. The original article doesn't specify.
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why nt send it to a refiner?
How do we know they didn't?
how do we know it's really him and not an unknown twin brother using a stolen identity?
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why not send it to a refiner?
…..because… it was stolen. You think refiners keep no records of what’s melted?
I know what you are saying but i know dealers who scrap millions in jewelry per year. If you crack the stones out and break a few chains, it would be very hard to identify it as the stolen jewelry unless it was a very unique design.
I'm not sure what we're quibbling about. He did send it to a refiner, and apparently;y he felt the need to melt some of it first, which leads me to believe some of it was rather unique, and it's not hard to melt gold.
Again though, what are we even talking about? The story said " millions worth of baubles" that he paid $16,000 for. Where does it say he paid 95% of melt? Re read the thread if you need to, but it seems like you're nitpicking my comment which was a response to @msmorrisine's comments which I'm not sure what his point is anyway.
"Sometimes, the indictment states, Simon concealed his activities by melting gold jewelry and selling it to a refiner."
I didn't think we were quibbling.
However, it doesn't at he paid $16k for millions. It said he paid $16k for SOME of the million dollar haul. It could be $16k for $17k worth it out could be $16k for $100k worth. The original article doesn't specify.
Ok yea I miscopied that, but the point is that it was very expensive jewelry bought a steep discount, so I'm not sure why we're getting into the weeds with trivial details of his business practices. He was a fence, and it sounds like the thieves weren't the sharpest, but they probably had limited options. I don't want to discuss trivial details of this rabbit hole anymore so you guys can carry on...
"Sometimes, the indictment states, Simon concealed his activities by melting gold jewelry and selling it to a refiner."
True, but that doesn’t mean that his motivation in selling the items to a refiner was to hide his activities. Legitimate jewelers, coin dealers and scrap buyers sell most of their jewelry to refiners, because it’s so hard to get anyone to pay more.
Anyway, I don’t know if the prosecutor can prove that Mark was a co-conspirator in the thefts, nor do I have any idea if he is guilty of that. But it shouldn’t be hard to nail him on the money-laundering charges. I would not want to be in his shoes, or in the shoes of the person who gave him that cash.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why nt send it to a refiner?
How do we know they didn't?
how do we know it's really him and not an unknown twin brother using a stolen identity?
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why not send it to a refiner?
…..because… it was stolen. You think refiners keep no records of what’s melted?
I know what you are saying but i know dealers who scrap millions in jewelry per year. If you crack the stones out and break a few chains, it would be very hard to identify it as the stolen jewelry unless it was a very unique design.
I'm not sure what we're quibbling about. He did send it to a refiner, and apparently;y he felt the need to melt some of it first, which leads me to believe some of it was rather unique, and it's not hard to melt gold.
Again though, what are we even talking about? The story said " millions worth of baubles" that he paid $16,000 for. Where does it say he paid 95% of melt? Re read the thread if you need to, but it seems like you're nitpicking my comment which was a response to @msmorrisine's comments which I'm not sure what his point is anyway.
"Sometimes, the indictment states, Simon concealed his activities by melting gold jewelry and selling it to a refiner."
I didn't think we were quibbling.
However, it doesn't at he paid $16k for millions. It said he paid $16k for SOME of the million dollar haul. It could be $16k for $17k worth it out could be $16k for $100k worth. The original article doesn't specify.
Ok yea I miscopied that, but the point is that it was very expensive jewelry bought a steep discount, so I'm not sure why we're getting into the weeds with trivial details of his business practices. He was a fence, and it sounds like the thieves weren't the sharpest, but they probably had limited options. I don't want to discuss trivial details of this rabbit hole anymore so you guys can carry on...
FWIW, most scrap jewelry trades at a very deep discount to retail prices. Doesn’t mean it’s stolen.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Where did that 20 to 30% of market value come from? The article only says that he paid $16,000 for SOME of the loot. It never says how much he bought. If the dealer paid fair market value, does that change your opinion?
I'm not saying that Mr. Simon is definitely innocent. But I also don't objective him to be guilty.
It was a guess, since that is the way fencing stolen goods works. If it were one time, sure, I agree with you. If the transactions happened repeatedly, then no, I disagree with you.
Sorry JM, he didn't pay fair market value, because that is not how fencing stolen goods work and he would not be facing charges otherwise.
The article Dan posted has more details which make it less likely that it was a simple mistake. The first article posted really doesn't have enough detail to even prove that he was fencing.
So, you are saying that no innocent person has ever been accused of a crime?
LOL? Are you arguing just to argue? Are you saying meeting Columbians in a hotel with jewelry worth hundreds of thousands, up to a million dollars is just innocence?
Give me an example of why someone would meet at a Hotel room to transact instead of Mr. Simon's physical location? Go ahead.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This is not a happy and uplifting subject. Criminals make me nervous. They are usually pretty desperate people.
I grew up in a very poor area. We lived in the projects where a sample of every low life could be found. We only stayed for 5 years 12 to 17 years old.
We moved in becasue our house was burned by an arsonist. We needed emergency housing I was always told.
It taught me to be streetwise and how to really look inside a person's mind pretty quick. In this case it was obviously pure greed. I wonder what other laws these people have broken and got away with.
Why do I mention any of this?
I am greatful not to be in that situation. I am not forced to be around that element anymore.
That's pretty much what I got out of reading this thread.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
Where did that 20 to 30% of market value come from? The article only says that he paid $16,000 for SOME of the loot. It never says how much he bought. If the dealer paid fair market value, does that change your opinion?
I'm not saying that Mr. Simon is definitely innocent. But I also don't objective him to be guilty.
It was a guess, since that is the way fencing stolen goods works. If it were one time, sure, I agree with you. If the transactions happened repeatedly, then no, I disagree with you.
Sorry JM, he didn't pay fair market value, because that is not how fencing stolen goods work and he would not be facing charges otherwise.
The article Dan posted has more details which make it less likely that it was a simple mistake. The first article posted really doesn't have enough detail to even prove that he was fencing.
So, you are saying that no innocent person has ever been accused of a crime?
LOL? Are you arguing just to argue? Are you saying meeting Columbians in a hotel with jewelry worth hundreds of thousands, up to a million dollars is just innocence?
Give me an example of why someone would meet at a Hotel room to transact instead of Mr. Simon's physical location? Go ahead.
OK, I’ll, go ahead. Because Mr. Simon apparently did some of his business out of state, meaning his “physical location” was far away.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why nt send it to a refiner?
How do we know they didn't?
how do we know it's really him and not an unknown twin brother using a stolen identity?
@MsMorrisine said:
there is also from the story: gold was melted and 16000 worth of gold is not a lot to pay 5% back on so why melt that little? why not send it to a refiner?
…..because… it was stolen. You think refiners keep no records of what’s melted?
I know what you are saying but i know dealers who scrap millions in jewelry per year. If you crack the stones out and break a few chains, it would be very hard to identify it as the stolen jewelry unless it was a very unique design.
I'm not sure what we're quibbling about. He did send it to a refiner, and apparently;y he felt the need to melt some of it first, which leads me to believe some of it was rather unique, and it's not hard to melt gold.
Again though, what are we even talking about? The story said " millions worth of baubles" that he paid $16,000 for. Where does it say he paid 95% of melt? Re read the thread if you need to, but it seems like you're nitpicking my comment which was a response to @msmorrisine's comments which I'm not sure what his point is anyway.
"Sometimes, the indictment states, Simon concealed his activities by melting gold jewelry and selling it to a refiner."
I didn't think we were quibbling.
However, it doesn't at he paid $16k for millions. It said he paid $16k for SOME of the million dollar haul. It could be $16k for $17k worth it out could be $16k for $100k worth. The original article doesn't specify.
Ok yea I miscopied that, but the point is that it was very expensive jewelry bought a steep discount, so I'm not sure why we're getting into the weeds with trivial details of his business practices. He was a fence, and it sounds like the thieves weren't the sharpest, but they probably had limited options. I don't want to discuss trivial details of this rabbit hole anymore so you guys can carry on...
FWIW, most scrap jewelry trades at a very deep discount to retail prices. Doesn’t mean it’s stolen.
I'm aware of that, I never said it was. I was clearing up that one specific detail that was corrected, and figured that the additional articles provided enough details that we can all objectively agree that "He was a fence" without having to list everything.
** Repeated Trips to South Florida to meet in hotel rooms booked under fictitious names
** Group of Columbian Immigrants likely with no photo identification or drivers licenses, and certainly couldn't provide any receipts or proof of ownership. (I'd imagine both you and I would require some proof of identity/ownership for 3/4 mil worth of material from new "clientele")
** Phone calls and other correspondence both before AND after robberies, which is arguably the most incriminating - "Before and after the burglary, Simon and a member of the gang exchanged phone calls, according to the indictment."
"Hey amigos, what do you have for me this time?"
"Uhmmmm.....what do you want us to have for you? Err....how much would you pay for ______?"
** Payments made via envelopes of cash mailed to fictitious business names.
** Paid approximately 10-15% of retail price, which may not be too unusual for lower cost items, but for brand new higher end jewelry that might very well be considerably below fair market wholesale. For watches or solid gold chains, it would be well below wholesale. Even a diamond tennis necklace should bring at least 30-40%
** Sometimes melted jewelry prior to sending to a refiner, which as pointed out, seems like someone's taking overly precautious measures.
I will agree that the first article wasn't particularly convincing of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but with the additional sources posted to the thread, I think we can agree its pretty obvious that Mr. Simon was well aware that these weren't typical transactions, and something was amiss, no?
@PeakRarities said
I will agree that the first article wasn't particularly convincing of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but with the additional sources posted to the thread, I think we can agree its pretty obvious that Mr. Simon was well aware that these weren't typical transactions, and something was amiss, no?
The additional sources are the indictment, which includes allegations and conjecture that remain to be proved. But sure, it doesn’t sound good.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@jmlanzaf perhaps a minor point but you say "I once bought 30 ounces of gold from a guy in an apartment above a store. We paid cash ($35,000 at the time). The guy didn't have a car and wanted us to come to him. He wanted cash because he was allegedly going through a divorce and didn't want a paper trail"
@savoyspecial said: @jmlanzaf perhaps a minor point but you say "I once bought 30 ounces of gold from a guy in an apartment above a store. We paid cash ($35,000 at the time). The guy didn't have a car and wanted us to come to him. He wanted cash because he was allegedly going through a divorce and didn't want a paper trail"
What about IRS form 8300?
I don't know what specific paperwork there was. The sale was split between us but run through a friend's store. I was just there for cash and authentication.
Based on the article I tend to believe the prosecutors have a strong case.
Colombian migrant gang stole millions from Americans during cross-country jewel-heist spree: feds
By Kathianne Boniello
Published March 15, 2025, 7:45 a.m. ET
Portions of the stolen merchandise were unloaded to Mark Simon, a Westchester County resident who allegedly paid cut-rate prices in cash and often traveled to Florida to meet them in hotel rooms, prosecutors said.
Simon, 56, allegedly paid just just $16,000 for some of the $1 million in baubles stolen in a Dalton, GA, burglary, according to prosecutors and court records.
@dhikewhitney said:
Based on the article I tend to believe the prosecutors have a strong case.
Colombian migrant gang stole millions from Americans during cross-country jewel-heist spree: feds
By Kathianne Boniello
Published March 15, 2025, 7:45 a.m. ET
Portions of the stolen merchandise were unloaded to Mark Simon, a Westchester County resident who allegedly paid cut-rate prices in cash and often traveled to Florida to meet them in hotel rooms, prosecutors said.
Simon, 56, allegedly paid just just $16,000 for some of the $1 million in baubles stolen in a Dalton, GA, burglary, according to prosecutors and court records.
As has already been pointed out, this statement is absolutely meaningless. It is rather disgraceful that any journalist would even include it in an article.
"Just" $16,000 for "some" of the $1 million in baubles tells us nothing.
@dhikewhitney said:
Based on the article I tend to believe the prosecutors have a strong case.
Colombian migrant gang stole millions from Americans during cross-country jewel-heist spree: feds
By Kathianne Boniello
Published March 15, 2025, 7:45 a.m. ET
Portions of the stolen merchandise were unloaded to Mark Simon, a Westchester County resident who allegedly paid cut-rate prices in cash and often traveled to Florida to meet them in hotel rooms, prosecutors said.
Simon, 56, allegedly paid just just $16,000 for some of the $1 million in baubles stolen in a Dalton, GA, burglary, according to prosecutors and court records.
As has already been pointed out, this statement is absolutely meaningless. It is rather disgraceful that any journalist would even include it in an article.
"Just" $16,000 for "some" of the $1 million in baubles tells us nothing.
That sentence could literally mean he paid $16,000 for $16,000 worth of the total $1,000,000. Or that he paid $16,000 for $1,000 worth of the total $1,000,000 for that matter.
The optics are not looking good for this guy, but people are thankfully innocent until proven guilty in this country and the court system, while flawed, will be the ultimate decision maker on earth.
It reminds me of a telemarketing job I had a million years ago selling long distance phone service. A coworker would call people and in a very convincing tone she would absolutely guarantee that the customer would save up to 35%.
If the customer saved 0% then the sales pitch was still accurate.
This story feels very Mafia involved.
A coin show dealer, who runs a coin show in NY state, got picked up essentially for being a fence for a Colombian migrant gang selling stolen goods in shady hotel room deals. in my opinion, allegedly, feels like organized crime.
I lived in NY for a short time and was surprised everything was described as "Because the mafia"
Why can't grocery stores sell liquor? Liquor licenses are run by the mafia.
Why can't a hard working guy get a Taxi Medallion? Taxi Medallions are run by the mafia.
Why this, Mafia.
Why that, Mafia.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
I remember a line from a Humphrey Bogart film, post WWII talking about the mob; he said something like this is what we fought the war for, to restore the rule of law. I don't care who is caught knowingly aiding and abetting crime, they deserve justice.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
This story feels very Mafia involved.
A coin show dealer, who runs a coin show in NY state, got picked up essentially for being a fence for a Colombian migrant gang selling stolen goods in shady hotel room deals. in my opinion, allegedly, feels like organized crime.
I lived in NY for a short time and was surprised everything was described as "Because the mafia"
Why can't grocery stores sell liquor? Liquor licenses are run by the mafia.
Why can't a hard working guy get a Taxi Medallion? Taxi Medallions are run by the mafia.
Why this, Mafia.
Why that, Mafia.
@JBK said:
But there is no such thing as the Mafia. 🥸
Does anyone else hear the instrumentals for "Speak softly, love" or is it just me.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Wow! I know this guy from the Westchester Show in Tarrytown. I get auto texts whenever a show is upcoming. Bought some coins years ago from his father who came to my place. Doesn't sound good for Mark. Could be the end of the Westchester show since I believe he was the organizer.
@Russell12 said:
I guess I should not plan on going to the Westchester Coin & Stamp Show in November
I can’t speak for that show but just a reminder that the coin and collectibles fair pop up show is at the Sheraton Tarrytown on Sat June 14 2025 from 9:30 on
Comments
It was a guess, since that is the way fencing stolen goods works. If it were one time, sure, I agree with you. If the transactions happened repeatedly, then no, I disagree with you.
Sorry JM, he didn't pay fair market value, because that is not how fencing stolen goods work and he would not be facing charges otherwise.
The article Dan posted has more details which make it less likely that it was a simple mistake. The first article posted really doesn't have enough detail to even prove that he was fencing.
So, you are saying that no innocent person has ever been accused of a crime?
Disclaimer; I've paid fair wholesale market value for all the stolen goods that I've knowingly and unknowingly purchased.
LOL? Are you arguing just to argue? Are you saying meeting Columbians in a hotel with jewelry worth hundreds of thousands, up to a million dollars is just innocence?
Give me an example of why someone would meet at a Hotel room to transact instead of Mr. Simon's physical location? Go ahead.
My sense is @jmlanzaf is saying that now that he has seen the ADDITIONAL information about this case provided by @PeakRarities, he agrees that Mr. Simon is likely not innocent. The original post had much less detailed information.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I once bought 30 ounces of gold from a guy in an apartment above a store. We paid cash ($35,000 at the time). The guy didn't have a car and wanted us to come to him. He wanted cash because he was allegedly going through a divorce and didn't want a paper trail. I was very uncomfortable the whole time, but we did the deal. He had another 70 ounces he was holding onto, but we never heard from him again. (Not that I would have gone back. ) I do not know if he was Columbian or not.
As for Mr Simon, the hotel was in Florida. Simon's store is in NY. How they made initial contact is not discussed in the original article.
Why would I not meet my fence at his physical location, by the way?
That is exactly what I'm saying. The minimal details in the first article could have been a very innocent transaction. As I've openly admitted, I've had similar transactions myself involving both definitely stolen goods (learned after the fact) and suspicious goods that may or may not have been stolen.
The more complete story involves multiple purchases as well as shipping boxes of cash. THAT would be highly unlikely to be innocent.
Here is a picture of Simon on far left (in happier times):
I'm not sure what we're quibbling about. He did send it to a refiner, and apparently;y he felt the need to melt some of it first, which leads me to believe some of it was rather unique, and it's not hard to melt gold.
Again though, what are we even talking about? The story said " millions worth of baubles" that he paid $16,000 for. Where does it say he paid 95% of melt? Re read the thread if you need to, but it seems like you're nitpicking my comment which was a response to @msmorrisine's comments which I'm not sure what his point is anyway.
"Sometimes, the indictment states, Simon concealed his activities by melting gold jewelry and selling it to a refiner."
Founder- Peak Rarities
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I didn't think we were quibbling.
However, it doesn't say he paid $16k for millions. It said he paid $16k for SOME of the million dollar haul. It could be $16k for $17k worth it out could be $16k for $100k worth. The original article doesn't specify.
Ok yea I miscopied that, but the point is that it was very expensive jewelry bought a steep discount, so I'm not sure why we're getting into the weeds with trivial details of his business practices. He was a fence, and it sounds like the thieves weren't the sharpest, but they probably had limited options. I don't want to discuss trivial details of this rabbit hole anymore so you guys can carry on...
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
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True, but that doesn’t mean that his motivation in selling the items to a refiner was to hide his activities. Legitimate jewelers, coin dealers and scrap buyers sell most of their jewelry to refiners, because it’s so hard to get anyone to pay more.
Anyway, I don’t know if the prosecutor can prove that Mark was a co-conspirator in the thefts, nor do I have any idea if he is guilty of that. But it shouldn’t be hard to nail him on the money-laundering charges. I would not want to be in his shoes, or in the shoes of the person who gave him that cash.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
FWIW, most scrap jewelry trades at a very deep discount to retail prices. Doesn’t mean it’s stolen.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
For the same reason that I meet my carfentanil dealer at the biker bar; the DEA watches his house.
Are you new here?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This is not a happy and uplifting subject. Criminals make me nervous. They are usually pretty desperate people.
I grew up in a very poor area. We lived in the projects where a sample of every low life could be found. We only stayed for 5 years 12 to 17 years old.
We moved in becasue our house was burned by an arsonist. We needed emergency housing I was always told.
It taught me to be streetwise and how to really look inside a person's mind pretty quick. In this case it was obviously pure greed. I wonder what other laws these people have broken and got away with.
Why do I mention any of this?
I am greatful not to be in that situation. I am not forced to be around that element anymore.
That's pretty much what I got out of reading this thread.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
OK, I’ll, go ahead. Because Mr. Simon apparently did some of his business out of state, meaning his “physical location” was far away.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm aware of that, I never said it was. I was clearing up that one specific detail that was corrected, and figured that the additional articles provided enough details that we can all objectively agree that "He was a fence" without having to list everything.
** Repeated Trips to South Florida to meet in hotel rooms booked under fictitious names
** Group of Columbian Immigrants likely with no photo identification or drivers licenses, and certainly couldn't provide any receipts or proof of ownership. (I'd imagine both you and I would require some proof of identity/ownership for 3/4 mil worth of material from new "clientele")
** Phone calls and other correspondence both before AND after robberies, which is arguably the most incriminating - "Before and after the burglary, Simon and a member of the gang exchanged phone calls, according to the indictment."
"Hey amigos, what do you have for me this time?"
"Uhmmmm.....what do you want us to have for you? Err....how much would you pay for ______?"
** Payments made via envelopes of cash mailed to fictitious business names.
** Paid approximately 10-15% of retail price, which may not be too unusual for lower cost items, but for brand new higher end jewelry that might very well be considerably below fair market wholesale. For watches or solid gold chains, it would be well below wholesale. Even a diamond tennis necklace should bring at least 30-40%
** Sometimes melted jewelry prior to sending to a refiner, which as pointed out, seems like someone's taking overly precautious measures.
I will agree that the first article wasn't particularly convincing of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but with the additional sources posted to the thread, I think we can agree its pretty obvious that Mr. Simon was well aware that these weren't typical transactions, and something was amiss, no?
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😱 OMG I was there!
Empty Nest Collection
Da Mimmo—before or after Kitchen Nightmares?
I recognize Rick Snow. Which of the other two guys were you, @renomedphys?
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I am neither of those other two fine gentlemen. The most likely place to find a picture of me would be in a “Charmy’s show report”
But I do remember being at Da Mimmo’s with all those guys. I just can’t pin down when that was.
Empty Nest Collection
The additional sources are the indictment, which includes allegations and conjecture that remain to be proved. But sure, it doesn’t sound good.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@jmlanzaf perhaps a minor point but you say "I once bought 30 ounces of gold from a guy in an apartment above a store. We paid cash ($35,000 at the time). The guy didn't have a car and wanted us to come to him. He wanted cash because he was allegedly going through a divorce and didn't want a paper trail"
What about IRS form 8300?
www.brunkauctions.com
I don't know what specific paperwork there was. The sale was split between us but run through a friend's store. I was just there for cash and authentication.
Based on the article I tend to believe the prosecutors have a strong case.
Colombian migrant gang stole millions from Americans during cross-country jewel-heist spree: feds
By Kathianne Boniello
Published March 15, 2025, 7:45 a.m. ET
Portions of the stolen merchandise were unloaded to Mark Simon, a Westchester County resident who allegedly paid cut-rate prices in cash and often traveled to Florida to meet them in hotel rooms, prosecutors said.
Simon, 56, allegedly paid just just $16,000 for some of the $1 million in baubles stolen in a Dalton, GA, burglary, according to prosecutors and court records.
As has already been pointed out, this statement is absolutely meaningless. It is rather disgraceful that any journalist would even include it in an article.
"Just" $16,000 for "some" of the $1 million in baubles tells us nothing.
That sentence could literally mean he paid $16,000 for $16,000 worth of the total $1,000,000. Or that he paid $16,000 for $1,000 worth of the total $1,000,000 for that matter.
The optics are not looking good for this guy, but people are thankfully innocent until proven guilty in this country and the court system, while flawed, will be the ultimate decision maker on earth.
It reminds me of a telemarketing job I had a million years ago selling long distance phone service. A coworker would call people and in a very convincing tone she would absolutely guarantee that the customer would save up to 35%.
If the customer saved 0% then the sales pitch was still accurate.
This story feels very Mafia involved.
A coin show dealer, who runs a coin show in NY state, got picked up essentially for being a fence for a Colombian migrant gang selling stolen goods in shady hotel room deals. in my opinion, allegedly, feels like organized crime.
I lived in NY for a short time and was surprised everything was described as "Because the mafia"
Why can't grocery stores sell liquor? Liquor licenses are run by the mafia.
Why can't a hard working guy get a Taxi Medallion? Taxi Medallions are run by the mafia.
Why this, Mafia.
Why that, Mafia.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
I remember a line from a Humphrey Bogart film, post WWII talking about the mob; he said something like this is what we fought the war for, to restore the rule of law. I don't care who is caught knowingly aiding and abetting crime, they deserve justice.
^^^^^100%
Obviously somebody did not get Da Mimmo.
I guess I should not plan on going to the Westchester Coin & Stamp Show in November
But there is no such thing as the Mafia.
🥸
Does anyone else hear the instrumentals for "Speak softly, love" or is it just me.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Or The "Birdman's".
I believe he has a storefront, which was open Thursday and he was there.
Wow! I know this guy from the Westchester Show in Tarrytown. I get auto texts whenever a show is upcoming. Bought some coins years ago from his father who came to my place. Doesn't sound good for Mark. Could be the end of the Westchester show since I believe he was the organizer.
I can’t speak for that show but just a reminder that the coin and collectibles fair pop up show is at the Sheraton Tarrytown on Sat June 14 2025 from 9:30 on