Pete Rose & Shoeless Joe eligible for Hall Of Fame

MantleMarisFordBerra · May 13, 2025 1:07PM

https://espn.co.uk/mlb/story/_/id/45115659/pete-rose-shoeless-joe-jackson-players-reinstated-mlb

Wow! Wonder what this will ultimately do for the value of their cards?

ArtVandelay · May 13, 2025 1:11PM

Let's all hope Joe Jackson makes it in. Pete Rose can continue to wait hopefully much longer than Joe Jackson had to wait.

Estil · May 13, 2025 1:14PM

Boy did this come out of left field, pun not intended! And yeah I never thought the "banned for life" common saying made sense as obviously, the ban continued even after death. I know many people have been trying to get Shoeless Joe posthumously "pardoned" so to speak but I don't know if this really counts as such?

mintonlypls · May 13, 2025 1:36PM

Nice! I hope both end up in the HOF...where they belong. They might not make it on their first ballot...but I am confident that both will be elected into the HOF.

Raptormaniacs · May 13, 2025 2:28PM

Civilization moves one step closer to extinction. What a shame…

Estil · May 14, 2025 9:38PM

This is REALLY shocking, as Johnny Bench has been by far the most outspoken of the "Pete should not be in the HOF" camp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRsVkBhktbw

grote15 · May 14, 2025 9:50PM

I don't think Bench ever was against Pete getting into the HOF..it was just that he was tired of being asked if Pete should be in the HOF as long as he was ineligible. There's a difference.

Estil · May 15, 2025 5:16AM

@grote15 said:
I don't think Bench ever was against Pete getting into the HOF..it was just that he was tired of being asked if Pete should be in the HOF as long as he was ineligible. There's a difference.

I'm pretty sure Bench from the very start was very very much against Pete going into the HOF. Conversely, Mike Schmidt (Pete's teammate during his Philly days) used his 1995 HOF speech to advocate for Pete being in the HOF.

BBBrkrr · May 15, 2025 7:57AM

I also think Bench was just against Rose as a person because Rose was such an terrible human.

Bench always seems to try to be a good person and I'm not sure Rose ever had that thought in his head for his entire life.

grote15 · May 15, 2025 8:10AM

@Estil said:

@grote15 said:
I don't think Bench ever was against Pete getting into the HOF..it was just that he was tired of being asked if Pete should be in the HOF as long as he was ineligible. There's a difference.

I'm pretty sure Bench from the very start was very very much against Pete going into the HOF. Conversely, Mike Schmidt (Pete's teammate during his Philly days) used his 1995 HOF speech to advocate for Pete being in the HOF.

If you look back at his interviews when asked about this question, you will realize the difference.

frankhardy · May 17, 2025 8:07PM

I think they both should be in the HOF. I believe I read where they are both eligible in 2028. Guess who else is eligible in 2028? Both Albert Pujols and Yadier Molina. Pujols for sure will be a first ballot and hopefully unanimous HOF'er. Molina should get in quickly, if not first ballot.

The only downside for me is that Rose's induction will overshadow one of the greatest righthanded hitters in history.

picklepete · May 17, 2025 9:35PM

Keep both out !

Tibor · May 18, 2025 3:57PM

No to Pete. He gambled on baseball and some of the games he was directly involved
with as a manager. He lied about it for YEARS. Later he admitted to it.
Yes to Shoeless, he was taken advantage of.

olb31 · May 18, 2025 5:03PM

the commissioner set it up this way to screw pete from ever getting in while he was alive. no matter what you think of pete, i believe the commissioner is a sack of crap. if don't like pete you should really have distain.for (wo)manfred.

pete is one of my favorite players, mainly because he played as hard as he could as long as he could. no quit. after watching my beloved celtics pack it in the other night, it became even clearer to me why i admired oete the athlete. not one celtic could hold his jock strap, even his smelly one.

EchoCanyon · May 18, 2025 5:19PM

I don't want to bring politics into this, but THIS -- https://www.yahoo.com/news/mike-bianchi-president-trump-not-210400748.html

lwehlers · May 18, 2025 6:42PM

@frankhardy said:
I think they both should be in the HOF. I believe I read where they are both eligible in 2028. Guess who else is eligible in 2028? Both Albert Pujols and Yadier Molina. Pujols for sure will be a first ballot and hopefully unanimous HOF'er. Molina should get in quickly, if not first ballot.

The only downside for me is that Rose's induction will overshadow one of the greatest righthanded hitters in history.

i think it is 2027 not 2028 so hopefully if rose goes in it will be not on the year pujols and molina get to in.

ArtVandelay · May 18, 2025 9:48PM

@olb31 said:
the commissioner set it up this way to screw pete from ever getting in while he was alive. no matter what you think of pete, i believe the commissioner is a sack of crap. if don't like pete you should really have distain.for (wo)manfred.

pete is one of my favorite players, mainly because he played as hard as he could as long as he could. no quit. after watching my beloved celtics pack it in the other night, it became even clearer to me why i admired oete the athlete. not one celtic could hold his jock strap, even his smelly one.

There are plenty of other great examples of players who hustled and played hard. Why not choose one of them rather than throwing your admiration to someone who was also a lifelong liar, cheater, and known pedophile? It just seems that this falls under the sunk-cost fallacy.

Estil · May 19, 2025 4:53AM

@EchoCanyon said:
I don't want to bring politics into this, but THIS -- https://www.yahoo.com/news/mike-bianchi-president-trump-not-210400748.html

I don't get that whole pardon idea he was proposing...all Rose did was cheat on his taxes and only served five months. Not exactly anywhere near worth bothering with a pardon, especially a posthumous one.

craig44 · May 19, 2025 5:01AM

@ArtVandelay said:

@olb31 said:
the commissioner set it up this way to screw pete from ever getting in while he was alive. no matter what you think of pete, i believe the commissioner is a sack of crap. if don't like pete you should really have distain.for (wo)manfred.

pete is one of my favorite players, mainly because he played as hard as he could as long as he could. no quit. after watching my beloved celtics pack it in the other night, it became even clearer to me why i admired oete the athlete. not one celtic could hold his jock strap, even his smelly one.

There are plenty of other great examples of players who hustled and played hard. Why not choose one of them rather than throwing your admiration to someone who was also a lifelong liar, cheater, and known pedophile? It just seems that this falls under the sunk-cost fallacy.

there is no problem with being a fan of pete rose. He was a great player and had the admirable quality of no quit. many people can compartmentalize the player and the man. I dont think @olb31 was ever hanging out with pete or having him over for dinner. He simply loved watching the man play ball.

ArtVandelay · May 19, 2025 12:34PM

@craig44 said:

@ArtVandelay said:

@olb31 said:
the commissioner set it up this way to screw pete from ever getting in while he was alive. no matter what you think of pete, i believe the commissioner is a sack of crap. if don't like pete you should really have distain.for (wo)manfred.

pete is one of my favorite players, mainly because he played as hard as he could as long as he could. no quit. after watching my beloved celtics pack it in the other night, it became even clearer to me why i admired oete the athlete. not one celtic could hold his jock strap, even his smelly one.

There are plenty of other great examples of players who hustled and played hard. Why not choose one of them rather than throwing your admiration to someone who was also a lifelong liar, cheater, and known pedophile? It just seems that this falls under the sunk-cost fallacy.

there is no problem with being a fan of pete rose. He was a great player and had the admirable quality of no quit. many people can compartmentalize the player and the man. I dont think @olb31 was ever hanging out with pete or having him over for dinner. He simply loved watching the man play ball.

I do understand that. There is no denying he was a great ball player and played the game like it should be played. I was a big fan of Pete Rose when I was a young kid, too. If it were only his baseball career, I still would be. The problem for me is that the more I found out about Pete Rose, it made it impossible to support such a horrible human being.

@Estil said:

@EchoCanyon said:
I don't want to bring politics into this, but THIS -- https://www.yahoo.com/news/mike-bianchi-president-trump-not-210400748.html

I don't get that whole pardon idea he was proposing...all Rose did was cheat on his taxes and only served five months. Not exactly anywhere near worth bothering with a pardon, especially a posthumous one.

The interesting thing about that article is that Manfred is simply agreeing to do this to ensure MLB retains its antitrust exemption. It's ridiculous that the MLB has been allowed to continue with the antitrust exemption for over 100 years.

Estil · May 20, 2025 4:49AM

@ArtVandelay said:

The interesting thing about that article is that Manfred is simply agreeing to do this to ensure MLB retains its antitrust exemption. It's ridiculous that the MLB has been allowed to continue with the antitrust exemption for over 100 years.

Because both sides know its one their major bargaining chips, that's why.

pab1969 · May 20, 2025 4:35PM

The hall is a joke and has been watered down by electing mediocre players over recent years. I say Pete's stats as a player are well deserved a hall entry. Unfortunately, there is the other side of him as a cheating manager. I say let him in. Then let in all the other cheaters (Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc.).

CardGeek · May 20, 2025 5:44PM

Doesn't it kinda seem like the pope may have had something to do with this? Like maybe this was his first act in office. Maybe he's a white sox fan.

olb31 · May 20, 2025 6:14PM

bonds type 5 player of all-time
clemens - best pitcher of all-time
mcgwire - saved baseball
ramirez
sosa
rose
sheffield
canseco

heck the ones not in are better than 90% that are....some just have humongous names.

Raptormaniacs · May 21, 2025 3:59AM

What percentage of the population would know the names of these players (or even care)?

Just a small special interest group that stands to make $20/30 more on a card in their collection. Sad human beings…..lol

craig44 · May 21, 2025 5:00AM

@olb31 said:
bonds type 5 player of all-time
clemens - best pitcher of all-time
mcgwire - saved baseball
ramirez
sosa
rose
sheffield
canseco

heck the ones not in are better than 90% that are....some just have humongous names.

this...

Bonds, top 3 hitter of all time. Clemens, arguably the best pitcher of all time. certainly after the live ball era. Manny, possibly the greatest right hand hitter of all time. then all the huge names you listed after.

that harold baines and jack morris are in and all those other players are not is a joke.

Raptormaniacs · May 21, 2025 5:38AM

You guys should go out and advocate for Ben Johnson and Tanya Harding to get their titles back. All is forgiven and forgotten.

BaltimoreYankee · May 21, 2025 7:29AM

I don't think anyone addressed the OP's wondering of how this will affect card prices.
My personal opinion is both Rose and Shoeless Joe cards are already priced at HOF levels and getting enshrined won't change that. Similar to players like Thurman Munson or Gil Hodges. When Hodges made the HOF, I don't think his cards saw a significant bump (but i could be wrong)

gemint · May 21, 2025 8:32AM

@BaltimoreYankee said:
I don't think anyone addressed the OP's wondering of how this will affect card prices.
My personal opinion is both Rose and Shoeless Joe cards are already priced at HOF levels and getting enshrined won't change that. Similar to players like Thurman Munson or Gil Hodges. When Hodges made the HOF, I don't think his cards saw a significant bump (but i could be wrong)

I think it will impact to the extend that HOF registry collectors will now need to purchase those cards to keep their sets complete.

BBBrkrr · May 21, 2025 8:53AM

@craig44 said:

@olb31 said:
bonds type 5 player of all-time
clemens - best pitcher of all-time
mcgwire - saved baseball
ramirez
sosa
rose
sheffield
canseco

heck the ones not in are better than 90% that are....some just have humongous names.

this...

Bonds, top 3 hitter of all time. Clemens, arguably the best pitcher of all time. certainly after the live ball era. Manny, possibly the greatest right hand hitter of all time. then all the huge names you listed after.

that harold baines and jack morris are in and all those other players are not is a joke.

There's no way Manny is a better RHer than Pujols, but Manny was great. They're all deserving of the HoF.

Estil · May 21, 2025 10:06AM

@pab1969 said:
The hall is a joke and has been watered down by electing mediocre players over recent years. I say Pete's stats as a player are well deserved a hall entry. Unfortunately, there is the other side of him as a cheating manager. I say let him in. Then let in all the other cheaters (Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc.).

I don't think Pete's stats or playing career being HOF worthy was ever seriously questioned. Remember, he got busted for what he did later as a manager, not as a player. Well, it mostly occurred while he was manager...

You know, had Pete remained eligible, I've no doubt he would've been the 1992 Donruss Hall of Fame Diamond King puzzle...I'd love to see how that would've looked if anyone here knows how to create that kind of thing.

olb31 · May 21, 2025 10:39AM

@Raptormaniacs said:
What percentage of the population would know the names of these players (or even care)?

Just a small special interest group that stands to make $20/30 more on a card in their collection. Sad human beings…..lol

You mean like Barry Bonds, Mark Mcgwire, Roger Clemens and Pete Rose? Pretty big names. I would guess if you like sports than you have heard of them. Just like I have heard of Babe Ruth, Log Gehrig and Ty Cobb.

olb31 · May 21, 2025 10:41AM

@Raptormaniacs said:
You guys should go out and advocate for Ben Johnson and Tanya Harding to get their titles back. All is forgiven and forgotten.

Did you see Tanya's private video? She performed well!!

olb31 · May 21, 2025 10:42AM

@BaltimoreYankee said:
I don't think anyone addressed the OP's wondering of how this will affect card prices.
My personal opinion is both Rose and Shoeless Joe cards are already priced at HOF levels and getting enshrined won't change that. Similar to players like Thurman Munson or Gil Hodges. When Hodges made the HOF, I don't think his cards saw a significant bump (but i could be wrong)

1964's have skyrocketed. PSA 7 sold for $2,900 (now it was perfectly centered). the last one sold for around $1,800 and wasn't a great example.

UlyssesExtravaganza · May 21, 2025 10:59AM

@ArtVandelay said:

@olb31 said:
the commissioner set it up this way to screw pete from ever getting in while he was alive. no matter what you think of pete, i believe the commissioner is a sack of crap. if don't like pete you should really have distain.for (wo)manfred.

pete is one of my favorite players, mainly because he played as hard as he could as long as he could. no quit. after watching my beloved celtics pack it in the other night, it became even clearer to me why i admired oete the athlete. not one celtic could hold his jock strap, even his smelly one.

There are plenty of other great examples of players who hustled and played hard. Why not choose one of them rather than throwing your admiration to someone who was also a lifelong liar, cheater, and known pedophile? It just seems that this falls under the sunk-cost fallacy.

Cause he had 4200 hits. Its kind of a lot. More than anybody ever. To suggest he did not have an incredible contribution to the game of baseball would be silly. That is why you consider him for the Hall of Fame. Not based on whether you would have set him up with your sister or loaned him 200 bucks.

I dont feel like the HOF should be about how we grade your personality. If so, Sean Casey top floor. Seems like a dude everybody likes. But I mean who cares. Do you want to walk into a building that is the HOF that acknowledges guys were swell neat likeable dudes and their plaques can mention that they always said encouraging things to their friends. I would not. Me, I think the Hall of Fame should be about guys who contributed the most to the sport from a performance angle. Any notes that you want to add that aren't about speculation, go ahead and add it. Failed tests being banned from the game, etc.

I do think the MLB HOF is a farce and a joke so maybe just whatever. I think it is controlled by a bunch of self-important people who feel so special that they can vote and love that they can withhold a vote and feel like they matter. Pete Rose Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Alex Rodriguez Sammy Sosa Mark McGwire Rafael Palmeiro. Some of the best players ever but no. Positive tests or just well we think so. He probably did. But David Ortiz, he gets the Sean Casey Personality Award after failing a PED test so yes him. IROD Bagwell Piazza maybe but well I dont know sure, let them in. Other guys who did not fail a test no not them.

Albert Belle if you really dig into the #s was one of the best players ever. Not cumulative #s but OPS one of the best ever and ahead of lot of guys that would surprise you. One of the best XBH guys ever with seasons up there with Ruth Gehrig Ted Williams. And maybe he does not belong because of the cumulative #s but just not seriously entertained. Not in the ballpark. Because he was not liked. He cant get into the Nice Guy Hall of Fame. The guy who was nicer to reporters in interviews gets a lot more votes. I dont think the HOF means much. We know who we appreciate. Who cares what some guy who writes for the Globe feels?

stevek · May 21, 2025 11:19AM

@pab1969 said:
The hall is a joke and has been watered down by electing mediocre players over recent years. I say Pete's stats as a player are well deserved a hall entry. Unfortunately, there is the other side of him as a cheating manager. I say let him in. Then let in all the other cheaters (Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc.).

All three of them, steroid users, will eventually get in. No question about it.

Amphetamines have been banned in MLB since 2006, It was invented in 1887. Steroids have also been around for a very long time, anabolic steroids since the 1940's. I would have to take a good guess that if a HOF re-vote ever took place, and no player who used steroids or amphetamines was allowed in, and we knew for sure which players used these PED's, then the number of players admitted might not fill-up a closet.

Let's tell it like it is. MLB knew those three were using steroids. We all knew it. But MLB was addicted to the money from the increased popularity of the game with records being broken. And we the fans were addicted to the excitement of it all with increased attendance and viewership.

So let's stop with the hypocrisy, and let those three in for crying out loud.

Raptormaniacs · May 21, 2025 11:39AM

@olb31 said:

@Raptormaniacs said:
What percentage of the population would know the names of these players (or even care)?

Just a small special interest group that stands to make $20/30 more on a card in their collection. Sad human beings…..lol

You mean like Barry Bonds, Mark Mcgwire, Roger Clemens and Pete Rose? Pretty big names. I would guess if you like sports than you have heard of them. Just like I have heard of Babe Ruth, Log Gehrig and Ty Cobb.

I’ve had the pleasure of drinking with a few HOFers (couple nights) and you know what? None of their names ever became part of the conversation. Why? Who cares that they aren’t in the HOF? You know my answer. Lol

UlyssesExtravaganza · May 21, 2025 1:12PM

Let's tell it like it is. MLB knew those three were using steroids. We all knew it. But MLB was addicted to the money from the increased popularity of the game with records being broken. And we the fans were addicted to the excitement of it all with increased attendance and viewership.

Do we all know who is using steroids now? 😁

ArtVandelay · May 21, 2025 1:14PM

The question of getting into the HOF becomes more difficult for steroid users, in my opinion. Would they have the same career if not for performance-enhancing drugs? Mark McGwire is a great example. If you take a deeper dive at the career of McGwire you start to see the true impact of steroids.

1986-1994 3342 AB - .250 BA - 238 HR (1 HR per 15 AB) - .507 SLG
1995-2001 2845 AB - .278 BA - 345 HR (1 HR per 7 AB) - .683 SLG
I think it's safe to say where performance enhancing drugs makes a direct impact on McGwire's career. If you take his averages prior to steroids and apply them to his total at-bats this is what you get.

w/o steroids: .250 BA - 414 HR - 1174 RBI .- 488 SLG

Dave Kingman's career stats

.236 BA - 442 HR - 1210 RBI - .478 SLG

I think it's safe to say that the ONLY reason Mark McGwire would ever make the HOF is because he took steroids. This is a prime example on why it gets more difficult to bring in steroid users to the HOF.

BBBrkrr · May 21, 2025 1:34PM

^^

Kingman probably deserves more respect than he gets but he was notoriously unpleasant and all the writers hated him. He was also a guy way before his time in that he bounced around to a lot of teams in a time when that was looked down upon. These days that wouldn't be a problem at all.

If he'd come in the league 10 years later he'd probably be in.

olb31 · May 21, 2025 4:52PM

i liked kingman, have a 1972 opc sgc 9, i had graded myself. paid like $5 for the card.

olb31 · May 21, 2025 4:56PM

hey Art, a dude named Tony Mandrich took them too, his career went nowhere, even though he was a top 3 nfl draft pick. according to your analysis, if he took steroids he would be great. brian bosworth was another one, did zilch, but took a lot of roids.roids make your stronger, but not necessarily better at football and baseball.

UlyssesExtravaganza · May 21, 2025 5:05PM

@BBBrkrr said:
^^

Kingman probably deserves more respect than he gets but he was notoriously unpleasant and all the writers hated him. He was also a guy way before his time in that he bounced around to a lot of teams in a time when that was looked down upon. These days that wouldn't be a problem at all.

If he'd come in the league 10 years later he'd probably be in.

I thought Dave Kingman didn't get into the Hall because of Tommy Lasorda's opinion of his performance.

ArtVandelay · May 21, 2025 7:17PM

@olb31 said:
hey Art, a dude named Tony Mandrich took them too, his career went nowhere, even though he was a top 3 nfl draft pick. according to your analysis, if he took steroids he would be great. brian bosworth was another one, did zilch, but took a lot of roids.roids make your stronger, but not necessarily better at football and baseball.

Every individual is different. Someone like McGwire is naturally a strong individual, much like Dave Kingman was. PEDs just enhance what is already there. In baseball, this can make a tremendous difference as your bat speed improves when using peds. There are additional benefits to batters as well. At-bats that were once flyouts or made it to the warning track are now home runs. This is why you see the huge uptick in home runs during that era. Players like McGwire allow you to see what kind of difference PEDs have in the career of a player because it's statistically easy to break that down.

craig44 · May 22, 2025 5:33AM

@BBBrkrr said:

@craig44 said:

@olb31 said:
bonds type 5 player of all-time
clemens - best pitcher of all-time
mcgwire - saved baseball
ramirez
sosa
rose
sheffield
canseco

heck the ones not in are better than 90% that are....some just have humongous names.

this...

Bonds, top 3 hitter of all time. Clemens, arguably the best pitcher of all time. certainly after the live ball era. Manny, possibly the greatest right hand hitter of all time. then all the huge names you listed after.

that harold baines and jack morris are in and all those other players are not is a joke.

There's no way Manny is a better RHer than Pujols, but Manny was great. They're all deserving of the HoF.

you better look a little closer...

Albert had a FANTASTIC first 10 years. one of the greatest starts ever. after that, you have 10 years in the second half of his career that were all in decline and half of those below league average.

If you take those first amazing 10 seasons and compare the rates to Mannys entire career, they are not that much better. and that includes mannys decline seasons. he has a lifetime .996 OPS. I believe just about all of mannys rates and advanced stats best Pujols and he also produced on the field with big HR/2b/rbi/BA (traditional type stats)

Albert hung around a long time (way longer than he should have) and achieved some great career totals.

craig44 · May 22, 2025 5:43AM

@UlyssesExtravaganza said:

Let's tell it like it is. MLB knew those three were using steroids. We all knew it. But MLB was addicted to the money from the increased popularity of the game with records being broken. And we the fans were addicted to the excitement of it all with increased attendance and viewership.

Do we all know who is using steroids now? 😁

we do not know who is using now. not even close. the users are ALWAYS ahead of the testers. there are new PEDs out there right now that we dont even know about. that there are not even tests for. there are current HOFers who used. no doubt. there are 2 current HOFers who admitted to using Steroids, Piazza and Bagwell. (andro. which is now considered to be a steroid)

Players have been using PED/or straight out cheating since the beginning of sport.

do we really think that guys like Stanton, Judge or Trout are not on gear? come on.

craig44 · May 22, 2025 5:49AM

@ArtVandelay said:
The question of getting into the HOF becomes more difficult for steroid users, in my opinion. Would they have the same career if not for performance-enhancing drugs? Mark McGwire is a great example. If you take a deeper dive at the career of McGwire you start to see the true impact of steroids.

1986-1994 3342 AB - .250 BA - 238 HR (1 HR per 15 AB) - .507 SLG
1995-2001 2845 AB - .278 BA - 345 HR (1 HR per 7 AB) - .683 SLG
I think it's safe to say where performance enhancing drugs makes a direct impact on McGwire's career. If you take his averages prior to steroids and apply them to his total at-bats this is what you get.

w/o steroids: .250 BA - 414 HR - 1174 RBI .- 488 SLG

Dave Kingman's career stats

.236 BA - 442 HR - 1210 RBI - .478 SLG

I think it's safe to say that the ONLY reason Mark McGwire would ever make the HOF is because he took steroids. This is a prime example on why it gets more difficult to bring in steroid users to the HOF.

except Mcgwire admitted to using steroids as early as 1989. if he admitted it started then, I wonder when it really started. remember who his teammate was. Canseco started using in 1984 and started to introduce them to teammates and players on other teams in 1985.

kind of makes you wonder about mr. henderson as well, doesnt it...

I would imagine, if truth were ever told, that Mac started either as a rookie or very shortly thereafter.

countdouglas · May 22, 2025 6:15AM

@craig44 said:

@UlyssesExtravaganza said:

Let's tell it like it is. MLB knew those three were using steroids. We all knew it. But MLB was addicted to the money from the increased popularity of the game with records being broken. And we the fans were addicted to the excitement of it all with increased attendance and viewership.

Do we all know who is using steroids now? 😁

we do not know who is using now. not even close. the users are ALWAYS ahead of the testers. there are new PEDs out there right now that we dont even know about. that there are not even tests for. there are current HOFers who used. no doubt. there are 2 current HOFers who admitted to using Steroids (andro. which is now considered to be a steroid)

Players have been using PED/or straight out cheating since the beginning of sport.

do we really think that guys like Stanton, Judge or Trout are not on gear? come on.

In all fairness, if Trouty is actually on PEDS, he's been using the wrong ones. He needs to find the drugs that allow him to grow a pair with the game on the line, rather than crumble under pressure and weakly wave at strike three, or meekly watch 3 fat ones go by like they're babies in bikinis.

olb31 · May 22, 2025 6:45AM

Manny R. was a fantastic hitter, clutch, knew how to win. I know him and AROD are overlooked, but it kind of surprises me, being in such huge markets, that people just don't care and buy up their anyway.

Estil · May 22, 2025 9:42AM

@UlyssesExtravaganza said:

@BBBrkrr said:
^^

Kingman probably deserves more respect than he gets but he was notoriously unpleasant and all the writers hated him. He was also a guy way before his time in that he bounced around to a lot of teams in a time when that was looked down upon. These days that wouldn't be a problem at all.

If he'd come in the league 10 years later he'd probably be in.

I thought Dave Kingman didn't get into the Hall because of Tommy Lasorda's opinion of his performance.

No, it's because he wasn't even close to 500 HRs and he struck out way too much and his batting average was way too low.

Estil · May 22, 2025 9:43AM

@olb31 said:
Manny R. was a fantastic hitter, clutch, knew how to win. I know him and AROD are overlooked, but it kind of surprises me, being in such huge markets, that people just don't care and buy up their anyway.

A-Roid is a lot of things but overlooked and especially underrated will NEVER be one of them!

Pete Rose & Shoeless Joe eligible for Hall Of Fame

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