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Am I missing something or is the 1839/6 (N-1) cent actually an 1836 cent?

renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

Okay so I just bought one of these at the EAC show after another member casually mentioned this theory to me. I mean let’s look:

This image is not that of my coin and only illustrates my point.
This looks obviously to me like the exact head of 1836, right down to the plain cords. We already know that the plain cords went out in 1837, and if you carefully look at all the different dates from 1836 to 1839, you'll notice that all the heads are subtly different. This one looks like an 1836 to me. Mine does too. Here’s one for comparison:

I suppose it’s reasonably arguable that these were made from leftover dies from 1836, and the engraver simply punched in an inverted 6 (it’s not a 9!) over an upright one that was incompletely ground off, but why weren’t those dies used in 1837? Why did they sit for three years until 1839 to be used again? Thoughts?

Comments

  • CopperindianCopperindian Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hi Matt -
    My unintelligent thought is the heads aren’t “exactly” alike! Just slightly different to my eye. Nothing really to offer as a counter to your analysis.
    Ken

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian

    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
    Copperindian
    Nickelodeon

  • TheRegulatorTheRegulator Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭

    A quick check of the Wright book shows the reverse die as being used on 1839 varieties 1-4-9.

    The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2025 11:56AM

    That is definitely the 39/6 cent.
    Yes a leftover die from ‘36 was used, why they waited, who knows. Maybe it was misplaced, or they had a smaller budget early that year and had to scrounge, at least until all the other new obverse dies were created…

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2025 4:04PM

    For those so inclined, this is from part III of a treatise on large cent overdates from John D. Wright from 1969:

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TheRegulator said:
    A quick check of the Wright book shows the reverse die as being used on 1839 varieties 1-4-9.

    Okay so this would seem to indicate an actual 1839 mintage and is probably good enough for me to believe it. TBH it’s such a weird coin. Look at the 9. It’s a 6! It’s like they made the die in 1836 and they were like, “oops!” And the boss was like “no worries, just hang onto that die for three years and we’ll use it then 👍🏻”. Right?

  • renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D 😱 What’s on the next page???

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,682 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My own humble example, from a copper collection assembled in the 50’s and early 60’s, from which I purchased a number of coins from the dealer friend who acquired it from the estate. It’s now in a PCGS 25 holder;

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,682 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @renomedphys said:
    @Walkerguy21D 😱 What’s on the next page???

    Doh, sorry, did that with my phone, must've hit the same pic 2x - here you go:

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2025 10:40PM

    Mine. Photos borrowed from previous owner’s set registry.

    Some crappy airport iPhone pics:


  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,682 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice example, @renomedphys!
    I’m sure many people who are accustomed to you posting stellar gems won’t appreciate it, but knowing that there are likely less than a dozen of these graded higher makes it an impressive coin to me!

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug

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