Red Book Podcast#9 w/ Stephanie Sabin, PCGS President
lermish
Posts: 3,554 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've really enjoyed your podcast so far, and I appreciate how much effort you put into supporting the coin community. Having seen your dedication firsthand, I know your intentions are in the right place.
That said, I found this episode disappointing. I wasn’t expecting hardball questions or “gotcha” journalism, but there were a couple of critical topics that went unaddressed—issues that many in the community have been vocal about for quite some time.
TrueViews – Since @PhilArnold ’s departure, the quality and consistency of the TrueView images have declined dramatically. Many collectors—myself included—considered TrueViews a cornerstone of the PCGS offering, especially as we returned to the hobby during the post-COVID surge. The current state of the photo department has been a consistent point of frustration. This isn’t just a minor issue—it’s damaged trust, driven away business, and devalued what was once a key differentiator for PCGS. Why has this gone unresolved for so long?
**Set Registry **– Another hallmark of the PCGS ecosystem, the Set Registry, has been partially or completely non-functional for an extended period. Despite being a community-building feature that drove engagement and submissions, it’s received minimal attention or resources. Like with TrueViews, the neglect is baffling and disheartening. Ms. Sabin's brief mention of the registry rang hollow and her assurances about the importance of the registry conflict with observed reality. Again, why has this issue persisted?
These are not nitpicks. They are core components of the PCGS user experience—ones that helped build loyalty and community. Yet, they’ve been largely ignored in favor of dubious “upgrades” like the submission center redesign, which seems disconnected from user needs.
There are other issues and concerns, as there would be with many businesses, but these are BIG problems. PCGS and Ms. Sabin have brushed them aside to our frustration and PCGS' detriment, instead choosing to focus on unnecessary and dubious "upgrades", like the new submission center software.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKyZVGOGjR0chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Comments
Maybe the questions or topics were predefined prior to the taping of this segment.
Not everyone can or will handle hard questions off the cuff.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Good points that we would all like to be addressed.
Registry stuff NGC works fine and there is one at CAC now too.
What do all the major dealers think of the Trueview and Registry situations? I would think they would be up in arms about their high value submissions being attached to the currently awful Trueviews. I am not aware of anything public from major dealers on this (other than Peak Rarities) but, admittedly, I have not done an exhaustive search on this.
I want to remain a PCGS customer, but if these issues continue to not be addressed, I will be compelled to shift my submissions elsewhere.
I have already shifted my business where possible. Granted, I am small potatoes, but PCGS still reliably invoices me for thousands of dollars a year. If NGC had a better holder or CACG graded world coins, I would send zero business to PCGS going forward until this is resolved.
As it is, all of my US coins have been going to CACG and (likely) will for the foreseeable future.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Yeah, that is the likely direction I am headed if the Trueview situation is not resolved. But I really hope they do address the situation and preserve the brand, would be a shame if it were another great company ruined by private equity.
I fully share all of the stated concerns, but John is operating and trying to grow a numismatic brand, and I can’t see any business upside to him bringing up those sensitive topics on a public podcast with the head of PCGS. And that’s assuming the CU public relations department didn’t already neutralize those land mines in advance as terms of the interview.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
You are of course 100% right and I totally agree with you. But as a dissatisfied CU customer, I don't see any potential downside with letting my extreme dissatisfaction be known.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
@lermish sorry for my delayed response as I took a nice long weekend to relax and get some year work done.
Jeff and I feel strongly about presenting industry-positive interviews and let our guests take things as far as they'd like. I'm so thrilled that Stephanie joined us for the podcast. She's really articulate and easy to talk to, and I believe conversations like this can be stepping stones to deeper ones later.
We have a number of other really great guests lined up, so please book mark and feel free to post questions on the YouTube channel.
Thanks again for watching!
Also... (drum roll) we are planning to start some "live" events really soon with some cool folks.
Here's the link to our channel.
https://www.youtube.com/@greysheet-redbook
Please "subscribe" and you will automatically get alerted as we add new content and alerts for the live events
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
They are NOT happy, they feel the same way that moderate dealers , small dealers, and collectors from any position on the spectrum do. Having a 6 figure coin with a 6 cent photo is a detriment to the market’s perception, as you may have guessed.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
All of the major TPGs have flaws none are perfect. Some flaws are more pronounced its always a matter of degree.
If you want to open a thread and then complain about a particular flaw you have every right.
But a thread containing one company and its flaw is really not a meaningful exercise when other companies flaws are exponentially more impactful to the marketplace. You end up projecting a biased viewpoint of the entire company you are critical of ....based on that one flaw.
This is the PCGS board. If raising concerns about PCGS here seems inappropriate to you, you might want to revisit what a discussion forum is actually for.
When the “flaw” is PCGS showing open disdain for its clients and letting core brand standards erode, that’s not some minor quirk—it’s a fundamental problem.
As for bias: the only bias I have is expecting competence from a company I’ve supported for years. If that offends you, maybe your standards are just lower. Beyond preferring PCGS holders over NGC’s, I laid out facts—facts that upset me and, frankly, a lot of others. Nothing vague or speculative.
Two respected voices in the hobby—@johnf and Jeff Garrett—chose to publicly interview the PCGS President and share that video with the community. I watched, and I commented. If they do the same with Ron Drzewucki and gloss over major CACG issues, I’ll say the same over there. That’s consistency—not bias.
So… what exactly was the point of your post? Just tossing out some half-baked fallacies to feel clever? If that’s all you’ve got, maybe sit the next one out.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Is it really an "industry-positive" interview when one glosses over some of the biggest issues in the industry that continue to be unresolved and hurt the overall product?
I don't think that TruView and Registry software complications qualify as "biggest issues in the industry." That said, we invite our guests to speak on topics of their choice and we are supportive of that format. Pressing our subjects would be counter-productive to getting them to join us in the first place. I totally agree these are issues worth discussing and hopefully we will get some feedback for you based on this conversation and the podcast itself.
John
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
lermish said “some of the biggest issues in the industry”
Is the Redbook podcast a glorified version of The View with softball questions and the guest knowing what they will be asked in advance?
I think this comment and comparison is extremely unfair to John F.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I couldn't say. I've never watched The View. Too busy working on pricing... We are definitely not doing "gotcha" journalism here. We consider all the major parties in this industry as friendly competitors and we do our best to support them all as well as the hobby. We do not mince words ("values") or politics on pricing, to the dismay of many.
John
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
It’s up there among the biggest issues as those two items drive a lot of business to PCGS. Once the registry and the photos are reduced to the levels they have been, the people who use PCGS start to change their habits, including giving up or leaving. That trickles down to other segments of the industry, including greysheet.
Photos are also important for counterfeit and doctoring detection. With some of the quality lately, it leaves the door open for counterfeiters and doctors passing off their work more easily since it’s more difficult to accurately compare.
@JohnF @lermish
I have no issues with the podcast and am thankful that John exposes us to his guests along with the progress of his efforts that have taken place.
Perhaps we shouldn't expect any in-depth discussion about PCGS's current problems from what I perceive as a marketing interview (tell us what you want to communicate and we will facilitate, as per JF).
Additionally, perhaps we should lower our expectations regarding the registry and photo concerns when these issues have repeatedly been ignored via comments here, direct emails to decision makers, and in-person complaints to leadership. As collectors who have liked the PCGS brand, we have some hard decisions to make.
Many of us are in denial of the reality.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Should I lower my expectation from the company going out of business in the next 5 years? Maybe 3 years is more in line?
PCGS will make decisive business decisions based on hard data, regarding the essential or nonessential importance of the Registry and super duper glamour shots. Not the message board or @lermish.
While I hold very similar views as to the pcgs registry and even closer views to the terrible decline of trueviews, I would like to present an issue closer to the average collector's heart and wallet. While certainly heart breaking to have a 6 digit value coin bearing inadequate trueviews, think of what it's like having a $500 coin(and perhaps a keystone to a collection) face a 10% + increase in cost and receive photos not many even feel reflective or representative of their prize. Then think of how many 6 digit value coins are sent vs how many 3 digit value coins reach pcgs' photo room requiring a 10% increase in investment in cost. As with most industries, the small investor is the largest contributor and most likely to be ignored. I have utilized pcgs for a while and truly have felt allegiance to it until these very issues have appearances of being ignored and that is sad. I am truly appreciative of pcgs allowing us this very forum to discuss issues affecting our hobby and I hope we provide useable info. JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
How would one contact Stephanie Sabin? Does she have a direct E-mail address, or do you have to go through the chain of command? Tried her linked-in acct, but she probably does not check it. J.P. Martin
Save your breath, your time would be better spent elsewhere....
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook