2016P Roosevelt dime - Unknown error type
Olympus620
Posts: 26 ✭
I found this dime last night(5-4-2025) looking thru my pocket change that appears to have a type of doubling or in my not so expert opinion machine doubling on both sides of the coin. All details near the center of the dime appear normal. All details nearer to the edge appear smeared or doubled including the top of Roosevelt's head. Any help would be appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E36msgCeP3E
1
Comments
Worn die.
The same error appears on both the obverse and reverse. Would both die's need to be worn or could a single die cause similar damage to both sides?
This is not an error, coin dies wear out with use. A single set of dies can strike hundreds of thousands of coins. There is a die for the obv and one for the rev, in this case both were very worn out. Again, not an error just poor quality control as the mint likes to squeeze every bit of life from a die set.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
and a worn die would have radial flow lines out at the rim
The surface of a worn die will sometimes become pitted, possibly as a result of decarburization of the die steel. These pits are expressed on the coin as low, flat elevations with relatively soft, irregular margins. Blebs are usually surrounded by obvious signs of die wear, such as radial flow lines or an orange peel texture. Blebs are usually found in the field.
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/unexpected-bumps-on-coins-surfaces-vary.html
ok
you think it has seams?
No, I think it's just the lighting.
I appreciate the comments about this dime. This forum is a wealth of information and experience. It must be common problem with dimes but never understood how it happens. My rational side say's the mint workers would catch this problem well before it got this bad but after stamping 1.5 billion of these things someone's going to be late for work, have a hangover or miss an inspection. lol and Thank you
It's interesting that the central details are still relatively sharp.
It might not be an error but if I came across it I'd probably hold into it as an extreme example of worn dies.
Maybe this image can help confirm 'radial flow lines' which I am not an expert on. I'll ignore the "seam" remark unless I get hungry for a piece of chocolate and I'll try peeling it open.
I think what you are calling a seam is a ridge ring, lighting effect, or a combination of both. A ridge ring would be another sign of a worn die. The other possible cause for this look that I considered but rejected in favor of die deterioration was acid. The wavy look of the metal around the rims does look like acid etching, but it's so controlled that I have a tough time seeing how it would be done.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Indeed - your "seam" is a ridge ring forming .............
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@coinbuf I was thinking acid as well. Maybe applied with a small brush just around the outside of both sides.
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I also think it’s worn dies and it’s not struck up very well.
with the new image - ridge ring
Could an improperly hardened die look like this? Maybe the outer edge was too soft and wore quickly.
The sharper centers seem to drop off suddenly into weakness near the edge beyond normal die wear.
Probably @FredWeinberg can give some better insight.
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I have a question about how exact one die compares to another. If you took a stamped dime and placed it on a second die set would everything line up perfectly or do dies have enough variations which would always cause a double die coin? I am assuming if the coin was stamped twice with the same die set it's possible it would not be detectable. I think the best answer is the coin was created with a worn die but I still have questions.
That's not how doubled dies work. On a doubled die, the doubling is in the die itself, when the die is made it is impressed more than once by the hub, if there is movement between impressions this causes doubling on the die itself. Every coin struck from the doubled die will show the same doubling.
There's a lot to unpack here...
Coins are minted/struck, not stamped.
The scenario you mention woukd not be a doubled die - it would be double struck.
A coin that is struck twice won't necessarily show it unless the coin shifts/rotates slightly in between strikes.
The effect your coin displays is from worn dies, not multiple strikes.
Oh wow, I have spent more than half my life believing DD coins are coins struck twice by the same die's. How I made it this far I will never know. lol A couple weeks ago I almost asked a question relating to how a mint mark could be doubled but not the date or vice versa. I should have asked it and maybe I could have gotten back some lost time.
Thanks for setting me straight. This does answer other unsettling questions I've had over the years like, Why are dd's RARELY more than a ~millimeter or so? etc. now I know.
up to 1989 mintmarks were hand punched into the die
coins struck from a die with one mm location won't fit into a different die, except by wild coincidence
Thank you, that is very helpful.> @Olympus620 said:
I went on a quest that took me to this great article about how dies have been used over the many years of the US mint(How Dies are Made). It's a good article that helps for anyone that has that interest. It cleared up all the questions I had regarding double dies. The website has so much more too.
https://doubleddie.com/58201.html