If the package was haphazardly ripped open, it might be because it got caught in the sorting machinery and not due to a nefarious intent. However, if the contents spilled out, then who knows what might happen at that point.
This is why I use secure inner packaging with the address clearly marked on that inner packaging.
Everybody take a deep breath and relax. This ain't the hill you want to die on.
Speaking of the USPS, while I was at Coin World we received a rather damaged #10 envelope inside a plastic bag with a note in it that read: "Run over by an airplane at the Columbus, O. airport." Amazingly, the Bust Dollar inside the cardboard Numis-Mailr was not where the envelope got bent double, and was undamaged.
Go watch some golf. Now that the Masters is over, the nap it will cause will do you some good!
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@dcarr said:
If the package was haphazardly ripped open, it might be because it got caught in the sorting machinery and not due to a nefarious intent. However, if the contents spilled out, then who knows what might happen at that point.
This is why I use secure inner packaging with the address clearly marked on that inner packaging.
@dcarr said:
If the package was haphazardly ripped open, it might be because it got caught in the sorting machinery and not due to a nefarious intent. However, if the contents spilled out, then who knows what might happen at that point.
This is why I use secure inner packaging with the address clearly marked on that inner packaging.
If handled properly, loose merchandise will be given to management and sent to the Mail Recovery Center.
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Years ago, An Ex-NGC grader told me that the company had at least two normal looking FedEx boxes that would blow up with dye if opened. He did not know if they were ever used. Scotty in the mail room showed him one.
I should believe that these boxes must still be used by FedEx. Anyone know for sure?
@CaptHenway said:
Everybody take a deep breath and relax. This ain't the hill you want to die on.
Speaking of the USPS, while I was at Coin World we received a rather damaged #10 envelope inside a plastic bag with a note in it that read: "Run over by an airplane at the Columbus, O. airport." Amazingly, the Bust Dollar inside the cardboard Numis-Mailr was not where the envelope got bent double, and was undamaged.
Go watch some golf. Now that the Masters is over, the nap it will cause will do you some good!
TD
Those types of packages are considered to be Postal History and are worth money. I would have saved it for my stamp collection.
@mr1931S said:
All PCGS slabbed coins, or any slabbed coin for that matter, that I send through the mail are double-wrapped in aluminum foil. The foil will prevent hand-held readers using a phone app from disclosing a sealed package's contents to a thief. Block electronic intrusions into the package is what I try to do.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
@The_American_Frontier said:
If it happens again maybe try using UPS or FeDex. That is if you can get insurance with these other companies. I would think it should not be a problem.
Truth is you read as many complaints about the other carriers as about USPS.
Saw one last week on Reddit where they delivered a $3,000 bullion coin, adult-sig-required by forging a sig and throwing the package over the fence. A kind of "quality" of delivery.
FedEx left a signature required package (not a coin) on my front porch last month, visible from the street.
@4Redisin said:
Years ago, An Ex-NGC grader told me that the company had at least two normal looking FedEx boxes that would blow up with dye if opened. He did not know if they were ever used. Scotty in the mail room showed him one.
I should believe that these boxes must still be used by FedEx. Anyone know for sure?
And what would they do with these? Randomly send them out hoping it would be the one in 2000 packages that was stolen? Or send them to their last favorite customers to remind them to renew their membership? 🤣
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
I am not sure if you have done this yet, but you may also want to reach out to PCGS directly if the coin was stolen.
The quote below was posted by PCGS moderator David Talk 10 years ago so I am not sure if they still have the same procedure:
"If a PCGS-graded coin is stolen we ask the customer to contact their local Police Department and file a police report, as most people would do automatically when anything of value is stolen. Once a Police report has been filed we ask the customer for the report # and any other information they would like to provide, a list of the exact PCGS cert numbers and corresponding coin information is requested from the customer.
We will review the individual cert numbers and make sure that the information given to us is correct (cert #1234567 = 1880-O MS62 Morgan Dollar), we will then mark the cert as stolen in our internal system. The cert number will no longer be valid online.
For the security of our customer's accounts we do not give certain information out unless the person requesting the information was the original submitter."
It assumes of course that the coin is left in it's holder. I see both pros and cons to such a system, but it might be another tool you choose to utilize.
@dcarr said:
If the package was haphazardly ripped open, it might be because it got caught in the sorting machinery and not due to a nefarious intent. However, if the contents spilled out, then who knows what might happen at that point.
This is why I use secure inner packaging with the address clearly marked on that inner packaging.
can they use a sort machine with a stiff package?
.
Sort of. I think there are conveyor systems which send packages in different directions based on the final destination.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
I'd think if you taped a 1931-S cent to the magazine you would at a minimum be running into an ethical dilemma.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
This is called rationalizing. That's not what you said you were doing.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
Better check up on your Media Mail prohibitions. Magazines, since the contain advertising, are specifically prohibited from being sent via Media Mail.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
No, you can't. Not legally, at least.
Media mail is for qualified printed material only. You can't even include an invoice or note.
Your scheme is fraudulent and cheats the USPS out of revenue, which is not behavior that they need at the moment.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
No. Absolutely not. Magazines aren't media. And you can't include non-media items with media mail at the media rate. It is fraudulent and, as already pointed out, actually allows the USPS to open the package without a warrant. So you've committed fraud and made it less secure. In addition, it's 4th class and may travel more slowly. Congratulations!
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
I'd think if you taped a 1931-S cent to the magazine you would at a minimum be running into an ethical dilemma.
An ethical dilemma with who? My brother? He's sent magazines to me with a penny inside. Ethical dilemma.......Thanks for the laugh.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@Rc5280 said:
I used to get CD's(music) delivered to me via Media Mail, but that was 15-20 years ago. Did something change, or was that fraudulent too?
@Rc5280 said:
I used to get CD's(music) delivered to me via Media Mail, but that was 15-20 years ago. Did something change, or was that fraudulent too?
You can still ship CDs via media mail. However, you can't throw a CD in with something else (like a coin) and send the whole thing media mail.
@mr1931S said:
All PCGS slabbed coins, or any slabbed coin for that matter, that I send through the mail are double-wrapped in aluminum foil. The foil will prevent hand-held readers using a phone app from disclosing a sealed package's contents to a thief. Block electronic intrusions into the package is what I try to do.
Hope this helps you going forward, PennyLady.
So the usps only steals pcgs graded coins, and passes on the other tpg slabs?
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
I'd think if you taped a 1931-S cent to the magazine you would at a minimum be running into an ethical dilemma.
An ethical dilemma with who? My brother? He's sent magazines to me with a penny inside. Ethical dilemma.......Thanks for the laugh.
My pleasure.
I've learned long ago once someone is set in their ways when it comes to ethics and morality they are likely to never change no matter what evidence is displayed before them. Attempting to do so is simply a waste of time and effort.
Therefore, I am glad you got a laugh out of my comment as really, that is more than I expected out of you.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
No. Absolutely not. Magazines aren't media. And you can't include non-media items with media mail at the media rate. It is fraudulent and, as already pointed out, actually allows the USPS to open the package without a warrant. So you've committed fraud and made it less secure. In addition, it's 4th class and may travel more slowly. Congratulations!
Like USPS is really worried about a few pennies getting from a sender to a recipient via media mail. You should check with them to see if they are more worried about this crime against humanity than you are. Okay no more sending of a penny or two to my brother in a magazine using "media" mail. CD's and DVD's are media though.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@mr1931S said:
All PCGS slabbed coins, or any slabbed coin for that matter, that I send through the mail are double-wrapped in aluminum foil. The foil will prevent hand-held readers using a phone app from disclosing a sealed package's contents to a thief. Block electronic intrusions into the package is what I try to do.
Hope this helps you going forward, PennyLady.
So the usps only steals pcgs graded coins, and passes on the other tpg slabs?
As far as I know, only the PCGS slabs have the NFC chips that can be read with a smart phone through a cardboard box.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@mr1931S said:
All PCGS slabbed coins, or any slabbed coin for that matter, that I send through the mail are double-wrapped in aluminum foil. The foil will prevent hand-held readers using a phone app from disclosing a sealed package's contents to a thief. Block electronic intrusions into the package is what I try to do.
Hope this helps you going forward, PennyLady.
So the usps only steals pcgs graded coins, and passes on the other tpg slabs?
You kind of missed the point of wrapping slabs for the mail in foil.
The threat of electronic intrusion of a package in the attempt to describe it's contents to a potential thief is eliminated using foil wrap on products that can be read. After wrapping the slab in foil, mark on it using a black sharpie. For example, "1914-D PCGS VF30".
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@mr1931S said:
All PCGS slabbed coins, or any slabbed coin for that matter, that I send through the mail are double-wrapped in aluminum foil. The foil will prevent hand-held readers using a phone app from disclosing a sealed package's contents to a thief. Block electronic intrusions into the package is what I try to do.
Hope this helps you going forward, PennyLady.
So the usps only steals pcgs graded coins, and passes on the other tpg slabs?
You kind of missed the point of wrapping slabs for the mail in foil.
The threat of electronic intrusion of a package in the attempt to describe it's contents to a potential thief is eliminated using foil wrap on products that can be read. After wrapping the slab in foil, mark on it using a black sharpie. For example, "1914-D PCGS VF30".
Maybe I’m thinking somewhat off where you’re coming from, but what I’m getting at is if a usps employee is searching through packages with their phone trying to scan for a pcgs chip in the slab, then why are raw coins and NGC slabs also getting stolen at roughly the same rate?
If pcgs slabs were being targeted in almost 100% of all the coin theft happening in the usps, I’d say the chip is probably the culprit to tip off the thieves. But it seems like everything is fair game for being stolen.
@The_American_Frontier said:
If it happens again maybe try using UPS or FeDex. That is if you can get insurance with these other companies. I would think it should not be a problem.
Truth is you read as many complaints about the other carriers as about USPS.
Saw one last week on Reddit where they delivered a $3,000 bullion coin, adult-sig-required by forging a sig and throwing the package over the fence. A kind of "quality" of delivery.
FedEx left a signature required package (not a coin) on my front porch last month, visible from the street.
Same here. They even forge my signature. $14K worth of coins sat on my porch for 14 hours.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
I'd think if you taped a 1931-S cent to the magazine you would at a minimum be running into an ethical dilemma.
An ethical dilemma with who? My brother? He's sent magazines to me with a penny inside. Ethical dilemma.......Thanks for the laugh.
My pleasure.
I've learned long ago once someone is set in their ways when it comes to ethics and morality they are likely to never change no matter what evidence is displayed before them. Attempting to do so is simply a waste of time and effort.
Therefore, I am glad you got a laugh out of my comment as really, that is more than I expected out of you.
If a person does unethical things, then THEY are unethical. Apparently some people are proud of that fact.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
No. Absolutely not. Magazines aren't media. And you can't include non-media items with media mail at the media rate. It is fraudulent and, as already pointed out, actually allows the USPS to open the package without a warrant. So you've committed fraud and made it less secure. In addition, it's 4th class and may travel more slowly. Congratulations!
Like USPS is really worried about a few pennies getting from a sender to a recipient via media mail. You should check with them to see if they are more worried about this crime against humanity than you are. Okay no more sending of a penny or two to my brother in a magazine using "media" mail. CD's and DVD's are media though.
There is a thing in the post office called "revenue protection". All employees are periodically schooled on it. The post office handles 350,000,000+ pieces of mail daily. If each piece of mail averaged just 1c short of postage, that is $3.5 million dollars lost per day.
@johnny010 said:
Unfortunately USPS has to have 1,600 of their own employees arrested a year.
Read that again.
ALL businesses have problems with employee thefts or other issues. The post office has over 640,000 employees. If 1,600 are arrested, that's .25%. Not a big number considering. I'd be willing to bet that many more citizens try to cheat the PO out of a few cents.
Thank you everyone for your kind remarks and thoughtful suggestions. FYI the package went from me to the Irvine p.o., to the main facility in Santa Ana along with 5 other coin packages at the same time. Then this package went straight to my long-time customer’s town, no stops in between according to tracking. I don’t think there are “clearly” any other possibilities than a postal worker thief who was responsible for cutting open this package and stealing the coin.
In addition to Doug Davis, various coin groups and my own pages on FaceBook, I have already contacted PCGS, Stacks Bowers, Heritage, and GreatCollections to be on the lookout for this coin/cert number.
@mr1931S said:
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
No. Absolutely not. Magazines aren't media. And you can't include non-media items with media mail at the media rate. It is fraudulent and, as already pointed out, actually allows the USPS to open the package without a warrant. So you've committed fraud and made it less secure. In addition, it's 4th class and may travel more slowly. Congratulations!
Like USPS is really worried about a few pennies getting from a sender to a recipient via media mail. You should check with them to see if they are more worried about this crime against humanity than you are. Okay no more sending of a penny or two to my brother in a magazine using "media" mail. CD's and DVD's are media though.
There is a thing in the post office called "revenue protection". All employees are periodically schooled on it. The post office handles 350,000,000+ pieces of mail daily. If each piece of mail averaged just 1c short of postage, that is $3.5 million dollars lost per day.
Actually, if he sending a single coin, media mail would likely be more expensive than ground advantage. He's still proudly unethical, but he's only costing himself money.
@4Redisin said:
Years ago, An Ex-NGC grader told me that the company had at least two normal looking FedEx boxes that would blow up with dye if opened. He did not know if they were ever used. Scotty in the mail room showed him one.
I should believe that these boxes must still be used by FedEx. Anyone know for sure?
And what would they do with these? Randomly send them out hoping it would be the one in 2000 packages that was stolen? Or send them to their last favorite customers to remind them to renew their membership? 🤣
Great question. Why don't you call NGC and ask for Scotty i(if he still works in the shipping department). I imagine FedEx was involved and they would have NGC ship them through a problem route to catch a thief. I'm going to see if I can find out something from FedEx.
@mr1931S said:
All PCGS slabbed coins, or any slabbed coin for that matter, that I send through the mail are double-wrapped in aluminum foil. The foil will prevent hand-held readers using a phone app from disclosing a sealed package's contents to a thief. Block electronic intrusions into the package is what I try to do.
Hope this helps you going forward, PennyLady.
So the usps only steals pcgs graded coins, and passes on the other tpg slabs?
As far as I know, only the PCGS slabs have the NFC chips that can be read with a smart phone through a cardboard box.
Foil wrap of PCGS slab prior to mailing is easy to do and is an effective theft deterrent. If just one theft is thwarted by using a few cents worth of aluminum foil on the slab why not do it?
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@mr1931S said:
All PCGS slabbed coins, or any slabbed coin for that matter, that I send through the mail are double-wrapped in aluminum foil. The foil will prevent hand-held readers using a phone app from disclosing a sealed package's contents to a thief. Block electronic intrusions into the package is what I try to do.
Hope this helps you going forward, PennyLady.
So the usps only steals pcgs graded coins, and passes on the other tpg slabs?
As far as I know, only the PCGS slabs have the NFC chips that can be read with a smart phone through a cardboard box.
Foil wrap of PCGS slab prior to mailing is easy to do and is an effective theft deterrent. If just one theft is thwarted by using a few cents worth of aluminum foil on the slab why not do it?
Agree but wrapping the slab with foil is only really necessary with the newer PCGS slabs with the NFC chip than can be read through the packaging.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
the package went from me to the Irvine p.o., to the main facility in Santa Ana along with 5 other coin packages at the same time.
Theft most likely occurred in California. Notify B&M coin shops in Santa Ana area is what I would do. Give them a phone number to call if your slabbed 1928 penny walks into their shop.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Sorry to hear of yet another postal theft; another coin that hopefully cannot be fenced safely with the certification number on the radar of many databases, there is also a way to set google notifications in case it surfaces online. Out of the holder that coin is hard to market anywhere near the GS pricing of around $1200.
Usps apparently does do more rigorous criminal background searches than Amazon that will hire those usps will not.
If you happen to be able to get a photo of the damaged packaging, that might be of interest for everyone to see here.
It might indicate if the opening of it was intentional or accidental.
@ThePennyLady said:
Thank you everyone for your kind remarks and thoughtful suggestions. FYI the package went from me to the Irvine p.o., to the main facility in Santa Ana along with 5 other coin packages at the same time. Then this package went straight to my long-time customer’s town, no stops in between according to tracking. I don’t think there are “clearly” any other possibilities than a postal worker thief who was responsible for cutting open this package and stealing the coin.
In addition to Doug Davis, various coin groups and my own pages on FaceBook, I have already contacted PCGS, Stacks Bowers, Heritage, and GreatCollections to be on the lookout for this coin/cert number.
Sorry for your aggravation and loss. Non-USPS workers frequently do have access to USPS shipments that are of great distance. Contract truck drivers frequently pull loads between hubs. USPS also contracts out their air cargo. To eliminate all other possibilities than a USPS postal employee is a stretch.
Comments
If the package was haphazardly ripped open, it might be because it got caught in the sorting machinery and not due to a nefarious intent. However, if the contents spilled out, then who knows what might happen at that point.
This is why I use secure inner packaging with the address clearly marked on that inner packaging.
Everybody take a deep breath and relax. This ain't the hill you want to die on.
Speaking of the USPS, while I was at Coin World we received a rather damaged #10 envelope inside a plastic bag with a note in it that read: "Run over by an airplane at the Columbus, O. airport." Amazingly, the Bust Dollar inside the cardboard Numis-Mailr was not where the envelope got bent double, and was undamaged.
Go watch some golf. Now that the Masters is over, the nap it will cause will do you some good!
TD
can they use a sort machine with a stiff package?
If handled properly, loose merchandise will be given to management and sent to the Mail Recovery Center.
I use media mail sometimes to send inexpensive (under $50) raw coins. Coin inside a magazine, coin inside a CD or DVD case, that kind of thing. Save money on postage and go with no insurance for inexpensive coins.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Years ago, An Ex-NGC grader told me that the company had at least two normal looking FedEx boxes that would blow up with dye if opened. He did not know if they were ever used. Scotty in the mail room showed him one.
I should believe that these boxes must still be used by FedEx. Anyone know for sure?
Those types of packages are considered to be Postal History and are worth money. I would have saved it for my stamp collection.
Welcome to the club of those who have been victimized by a nameless thief. Took ya long enough to join, Charmy.
LMFAO
Not a wise thing to do. Media mail is the ONLY class of mail that can be opened by a clerk to see if it is in fact Media Mail. Not to mention it's dishonest.
FedEx left a signature required package (not a coin) on my front porch last month, visible from the street.
And what would they do with these? Randomly send them out hoping it would be the one in 2000 packages that was stolen? Or send them to their last favorite customers to remind them to renew their membership? 🤣
You're publicly admitting to fraud????
@ThePennyLady
I am not sure if you have done this yet, but you may also want to reach out to PCGS directly if the coin was stolen.
The quote below was posted by PCGS moderator David Talk 10 years ago so I am not sure if they still have the same procedure:
"If a PCGS-graded coin is stolen we ask the customer to contact their local Police Department and file a police report, as most people would do automatically when anything of value is stolen. Once a Police report has been filed we ask the customer for the report # and any other information they would like to provide, a list of the exact PCGS cert numbers and corresponding coin information is requested from the customer.
We will review the individual cert numbers and make sure that the information given to us is correct (cert #1234567 = 1880-O MS62 Morgan Dollar), we will then mark the cert as stolen in our internal system. The cert number will no longer be valid online.
For the security of our customer's accounts we do not give certain information out unless the person requesting the information was the original submitter."
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/954451/if-i-think-that-a-coin-being-offered-is-stolen-would-pcgs-tell-me-who-originally-graded-the-coin
It assumes of course that the coin is left in it's holder. I see both pros and cons to such a system, but it might be another tool you choose to utilize.
.
Sort of. I think there are conveyor systems which send packages in different directions based on the final destination.
.
No it's not. I can mail a magazine to my brother with a penny taped to a page inside it can't I?
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
I'd think if you taped a 1931-S cent to the magazine you would at a minimum be running into an ethical dilemma.
peacockcoins
This is called rationalizing. That's not what you said you were doing.
Better check up on your Media Mail prohibitions. Magazines, since the contain advertising, are specifically prohibited from being sent via Media Mail.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
No, you can't. Not legally, at least.
Media mail is for qualified printed material only. You can't even include an invoice or note.
Your scheme is fraudulent and cheats the USPS out of revenue, which is not behavior that they need at the moment.
No. Absolutely not. Magazines aren't media. And you can't include non-media items with media mail at the media rate. It is fraudulent and, as already pointed out, actually allows the USPS to open the package without a warrant. So you've committed fraud and made it less secure. In addition, it's 4th class and may travel more slowly. Congratulations!
I used to get CD's(music) delivered to me via Media Mail, but that was 15-20 years ago. Did something change, or was that fraudulent too?
The package I once rece> @braddick said:
An ethical dilemma with who? My brother? He's sent magazines to me with a penny inside. Ethical dilemma.......Thanks for the laugh.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
CDs count as media.
did anyone hear a coin was stolen?
You can still ship CDs via media mail. However, you can't throw a CD in with something else (like a coin) and send the whole thing media mail.
Stolen or lost?
So the usps only steals pcgs graded coins, and passes on the other tpg slabs?
My pleasure.
I've learned long ago once someone is set in their ways when it comes to ethics and morality they are likely to never change no matter what evidence is displayed before them. Attempting to do so is simply a waste of time and effort.
Therefore, I am glad you got a laugh out of my comment as really, that is more than I expected out of you.
peacockcoins
I found this video on youtube .....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smZM2fWr1vM
Like USPS is really worried about a few pennies getting from a sender to a recipient via media mail. You should check with them to see if they are more worried about this crime against humanity than you are. Okay no more sending of a penny or two to my brother in a magazine using "media" mail. CD's and DVD's are media though.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
As far as I know, only the PCGS slabs have the NFC chips that can be read with a smart phone through a cardboard box.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Unfortunately USPS has to have 1,600 of their own employees arrested a year.
Read that again.
.> @1madman said:
You kind of missed the point of wrapping slabs for the mail in foil.
The threat of electronic intrusion of a package in the attempt to describe it's contents to a potential thief is eliminated using foil wrap on products that can be read. After wrapping the slab in foil, mark on it using a black sharpie. For example, "1914-D PCGS VF30".
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Maybe I’m thinking somewhat off where you’re coming from, but what I’m getting at is if a usps employee is searching through packages with their phone trying to scan for a pcgs chip in the slab, then why are raw coins and NGC slabs also getting stolen at roughly the same rate?
If pcgs slabs were being targeted in almost 100% of all the coin theft happening in the usps, I’d say the chip is probably the culprit to tip off the thieves. But it seems like everything is fair game for being stolen.
Same here. They even forge my signature. $14K worth of coins sat on my porch for 14 hours.
Yes, but the blame was put squarely on postal employees when there's clearly other possibilities as I've pointed out.
If a person does unethical things, then THEY are unethical. Apparently some people are proud of that fact.
There is a thing in the post office called "revenue protection". All employees are periodically schooled on it. The post office handles 350,000,000+ pieces of mail daily. If each piece of mail averaged just 1c short of postage, that is $3.5 million dollars lost per day.
ALL businesses have problems with employee thefts or other issues. The post office has over 640,000 employees. If 1,600 are arrested, that's .25%. Not a big number considering. I'd be willing to bet that many more citizens try to cheat the PO out of a few cents.
Edited to correct my math. Thanks @TomB
Thank you everyone for your kind remarks and thoughtful suggestions. FYI the package went from me to the Irvine p.o., to the main facility in Santa Ana along with 5 other coin packages at the same time. Then this package went straight to my long-time customer’s town, no stops in between according to tracking. I don’t think there are “clearly” any other possibilities than a postal worker thief who was responsible for cutting open this package and stealing the coin.
In addition to Doug Davis, various coin groups and my own pages on FaceBook, I have already contacted PCGS, Stacks Bowers, Heritage, and GreatCollections to be on the lookout for this coin/cert number.
The Penny Lady®
Actually, if he sending a single coin, media mail would likely be more expensive than ground advantage. He's still proudly unethical, but he's only costing himself money.
Great question. Why don't you call NGC and ask for Scotty i(if he still works in the shipping department). I imagine FedEx was involved and they would have NGC ship them through a problem route to catch a thief. I'm going to see if I can find out something from FedEx.
Very sorry to hear this. I hope the coin is recovered.
Foil wrap of PCGS slab prior to mailing is easy to do and is an effective theft deterrent. If just one theft is thwarted by using a few cents worth of aluminum foil on the slab why not do it?
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Agree but wrapping the slab with foil is only really necessary with the newer PCGS slabs with the NFC chip than can be read through the packaging.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
the package went from me to the Irvine p.o., to the main facility in Santa Ana along with 5 other coin packages at the same time.
Theft most likely occurred in California. Notify B&M coin shops in Santa Ana area is what I would do. Give them a phone number to call if your slabbed 1928 penny walks into their shop.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Sorry to hear of yet another postal theft; another coin that hopefully cannot be fenced safely with the certification number on the radar of many databases, there is also a way to set google notifications in case it surfaces online. Out of the holder that coin is hard to market anywhere near the GS pricing of around $1200.
Usps apparently does do more rigorous criminal background searches than Amazon that will hire those usps will not.
If you happen to be able to get a photo of the damaged packaging, that might be of interest for everyone to see here.
It might indicate if the opening of it was intentional or accidental.
Sorry for your aggravation and loss. Non-USPS workers frequently do have access to USPS shipments that are of great distance. Contract truck drivers frequently pull loads between hubs. USPS also contracts out their air cargo. To eliminate all other possibilities than a USPS postal employee is a stretch.