Post a CAC approved coin with adjustment marks
Proofmorgan
Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭
I’ve heard and anecdotally feel that CAC doesn’t like adjustment marks. Post a CAC approved coin with adjustment marks.
Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
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I can help you with roller marks, but not adjustment marks.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The only one I have with adjustments marks.
AU53cac
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Oops- correction AU55 instead of 53.😂
Am I cheating?
Not mine...
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I just checked my inventory. None of my early quarter eagles that are CAC have adjustment marks. That said, I have seen some out there. I think that your statement is accurate that CAC doesn't generally like adjustment marks.
The parallel lines on the obverse appear to be adjustment marks. They are not distracting when viewing the coin.
The adjustment marks on the stars and RTY of liberty do not affect the overall look of this coin. Liberty is unmarked. Also, the photos fail to show the lustre and beauty of the coin.
They dig coins with corrosion but don't like marks from the actual minting process?
Unless that coin has “adjustment marks” (which I’ve never seen on that issue), yes, you’re cheating.😮
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Neat coin! Where are the adjustment marks?
I searched the Heritage auction archives and entered “CAC adjustment marks”.
Below is just a sample of what turned up.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-half-dollars/1795-50c-two-leaves-o-116-t-11-r3-vf30-ngc-cac-tompkins-die-state-2-2-letters-from-united-are-clashed-near-the-libe-in-liberty-the/a/60332-51144.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-half-dollars/1794-50c-o-105-t-3-r5-vg10-ngc-cac-pcgs-39206-/a/1274-3357.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-half-eagles/1800-5-bd-4-r4-xf45-ngc-cac-pcgs-45594-/a/1218-3221.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-half-dimes/1795-h10c-v-5-lm-8-r3-au53-pcgs-cac-pcgs-38592-/a/1344-3298.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-half-eagles/1806-5-round-top-6-7x6-stars-vf35-pcgs-cac-bd-6-r2-pcgs-8089-/a/1191-3842.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-half-dimes/1795-h10c-v-5-lm-8-r3-vf30-pcgs-cac-pcgs-38592-/a/1251-3704.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@DisneyFan
Thanks!
Adjustment marks are center of obverse, all through the hair.
Also on the center of the shield on the reverse?
Thanks for the education, Mark.
I’ve seen some early gold with excellent originality and quality, but heavy adjustment marks on the bust. No CAC. Quite the debate. Detracting but yet original to the minting process.
is "the" specimen 1794 dollar CAC'd ?
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Reverse is just a weak strike.👍
Here's one, adjustment marks and all...
"In 2010, the coin was graded by PCGS as MS66+ and later given a CAC sticker of approval."
And now it's a 67, the finest known...
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Thanks for posting but I'm curious. Why? Where are the adjustment marks?
Where are the adjustment marks?
For the 1794 it looks like on the reverse rim into the letters of UNITED STATES and on the obverse rim by stars five through eight.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
i think there is confusion between die polishing and adjustment marks on a planchet for proper metal weight
I was kidding about the 5C leg polishing. However one could argue that the overpolishing was indeed an "adjustment", but I digress.
@TomB is correct, the adjustments are seen on the perimeter to the left. That $1 coin above is worth 20M...
"A single pair of dies accounts for all known examples of this date. Many examples show adjustment marks on one or both sides, where excess metal was filed from the planchet before striking. At least one example (the PCGS SP-66) shows both adjustment marks plus traces of a silver plug (which was added to the center of the coin to raise the weight of the planchet to the statutory requirement)."
"At some point in the striking process, the dies shifted and their faces were no longer parallel to each other. This resulted in weakness on the left side of the obverse and the corresponding area of the reverse. Only a very few 1794 Silver Dollars exhibit what can be called anywhere near a full strike."
Ron Guth/PCGS
Do adjustment marks take away from the value of a coin?
Yes. Even though adjustment marks are part of the minting process, they adversely affect the eye appeal of a coin and eye appeal is a grading factor.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'd say this this is a pretty dramatic example. (not my coin).
Stacks bowers, Sold $11,100. June 2024
CAC'd
https://pcgs.com/auctionprices/item/1794-1-flowing-hair-silver-plug/86851/6026579787645942982
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Those are adjustment marks. The mark on the 1795 above it MAY not be. Hard to tell from the photo. I looked for a while and could not find any coins with only a single adjustment line. On the '95 there is a hint of a parallel line a little right of the scratch (?) That would be all that was needed to confirm which it is.
I imagine given earlier series that are known to have them, adjustment marks are usually not the solitary issue preventing CAC approval.
There’s also a broad spectrum to consider; some are not very distracting but others are so severe that they make it hard to enjoy a coin.
I owned this coin for awhile, it had nice surfaces and luster and was all there except for this line on the obverse. I was told the line had to be an adjustment mark or it wouldn’t have received CAC approval. Seems awfully straight to be a staple scratch (though it looks like one to me.) Whatever it is, I couldn’t see past it and sent her down the road.
That's an attractive coin. It is a perfect example (adjustment mark) of a scratch that was on the planchet that was partly practically obliterated on the relief! The horizontal line looks like a scratch.
How timely!
I believe I could live with adjustment marks on this treasure. (!!)
Just…. Wow. Simply beautiful.
That’s a scratch on the struck coin, not an adjustment mark on the planchet. And an adjustment mark would be weaker in the fields, not in the relief. PCGS and CAC missed the ball on this one imo.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
I'm shocked. So then, what we have here must be an example of a "magical scratch" that does unbelievable things. I'll stick with my opinion and that of PCGS and CAC. As I wrote above, that is one perfect example where the adjustment mark has been mostly obliterated (ribbon and star) as the planchet filled the die.
Now, I have an open mind and respect the two members who agree with your opinion, so I'll hang around a while and debate you. Please don't duck my earnest request to educate me. Let's start with a planchet with a very deep scratch. When the planchet is struck, what would cause the scratch to be partly obliterated? Where would the metal flow be the strongest - on the flat field or filling a die cavity?
That would be a very deep scratch that runs right up to AND OVER the relief but there is not enough wear on the high points to make it disappear as it does if it were a scratch. Furthermore, when a coin is scratched, the "tool" will virtually always be deflected to some degree when it hits the relief. That adjustment mark is straight. It's too bad a PCGS or CAC grader is not around to disagree with your opinion along with me.
There would be more metal movement in the field. The metal is being more compressed in the field. The metal on the devices is being left closer to its unstruck state. The shape of the scratch here is also wrong for an adjustment mark - it should not be cupped inward like that, have bold ridges along the sides, or have a slight directional change when it hits the star and ribbon.
I’m not interested in a debate, but you may want to look at other coins with heavy adjustment marks, roller marks, or unstruck planchet texture to answer your questions.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
The highest point on a die is the field area while the design elements are recessed into the die. It stands to reason that any defects on the planchet would be more flattened in the field area of the coin as opposed to the higher relief design areas of the coin. If you've ever seen and studied a very weakly struck coin, you can see what the original planchet surface looked like in the unstruck highest relief area of the coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU for taking the time to reply. I just need to disagree on this coin. If it were in hand, we could easily tell with 100% accuracy tell which of us is correct.