CAC Gold sticker coins: crossover success stories?
chattermonkey
Posts: 75 ✭✭✭
Anyone have any experience or records of CAC gold sticker coins crossing to a higher grade?--would be interesting to hear about.
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For most generics these days that would be like doing this-
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I have not heard of it but am sure it has happened. It would also be interesting to know if a CAC Gold stickered coin has ever crossed up 2 points. Or even if CACG has holdered a Gold sticker up 2 points.
I agree with TomB. You'd be throwing away money if almost every case imaginable unless it did holder 2 points higher.
Considering the crazy high premiums that gold CAC stickers command these days, it would only make sense if it was for a registry set and you needed the points to move into first place.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I did, just because, and for a rookie experiment. I have yet to 'attempt' to convince CAC for a Green Bean via sales records/pics of before & after, or a straight submission for the green, so we'll see?
And as @TomB put it, I burned Moolah...
Before...
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After(not a good pic). Yeah, I know....
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I'm just curious what is the value of the NGC gold sticker 65 vs the value of the PCGS 66?
i would have kept the gold sticker as is ...
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Downtown1974, Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Proofcollection, Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
Crossed most of my stickered NGC to CACG. Only one gold, a proof 66+ merc. Crossed as a 67+, probably a push, but the old holder was pretty beat up, so I’m pleased.
I will quickly state that we recently handled a better date Morgan in NGC MS-64/CAC gold that crossed AND upgraded by two points to PCGS MS-66. Interestingly, at MS-66, it did not sticker... so that data point is for what it's worth.
On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
I crossed a gold CAC Merc dime form PCGS to CACG and it improved by one grade from 66 to 67. I don't think it deserved to go any higher.
http://ProofCollection.Net
On a mostly white piece this date normally brings around $350 in 66. In a fattie w/gold CAC it would likely be valued as a 67 which is around $1,350.
To some extent, it depends where on the price range the coin falls. For lower graded (three figure coins), maybe it is a two point increase to retain value. However, for higher priced coins, my sense is value is often retained if it crosses 1-1/2 points higher, like from a 65 to a 66+. Since CAC stickering in NJ ignores plus grades, I would think most coins in the above example would likely resticker. Obviously, documentation should accompany the new holder when it is sent back to CAC.
I never bought (or own) any Gold colored CAC stickered coins.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Bingo, nice work.
And as @calgolddiver put it - "i 'should' have kept the gold sticker as is ..."
I have a few more, and it's "hands off" from here on out! ⇊
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This 1881-S is a great example of one that should never leave its holder. That applies to most Gold CACs of course. I hope you didn't pay 68 money for it and have a feeling you didn't. :-)
Still command?
I know they were hot when first coming out, but thought that had cooled?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Never been offered any nor would pay above grade on holder (averse to risk). Have seen some go for insane money as there are many who like spinning the roulette wheel. Seems the craze has worn off lately (high buyers hosed).
Even if guaranteed to cross +1 grade higher at CAC?
http://ProofCollection.Net
Just not a player in that game. Nor the bank for them.
Let’s not forget that when you submit to cross, you can REQUIRE that it cross only if it crosses at the minimum grade YOU set!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
It's not a game if it's guaranteed. But I get it, lots of people buy the holder, not the coin. Nothing wrong with that. More opportunities for me!
http://ProofCollection.Net
68 money, no.
67+ money, yes. Hopefully it'll retain the large premium that I dished out on that one?
It's a tough call if it were to upgrade to a 67+. I suppose one could send it in for a reconsideration, but not a priority, so hands off!
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https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1568922/1881-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-66-CAC-Gold
Thank You, I was kind of expecting an answer like this, huge premium for old holders with gold stickers
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a buyer for $1,350. Yes, the market typically prices Gold CAC Morgans about 2 grades higher, give or take. However, my belief from all the data I've seen is that common date Gold CAC Morgans in 65 typically go for about $950 - $1,100 at retail, with that range depending on the holder of course.
While that no-line fattie (assuming it's a 4.0 without seeing the reverse) that was shared might command a small premium in the gold CAC 65 Morgan pricing spectrum, it's not up to 67 CAC bid IMO.
For What It's Worth. One year ago ⇊. It was a dumbo, rookie move to cross it, my bad, lesson learned...
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1563513/1887-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-NGC-MS-65-CAC-Gold-OH-Toned
For a no-line fattie in 65 with a Gold CAC that result is not surprising. There was an under bidder at $1300. Why did you decide to cross it into a new older?
ouch...
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
Certainly seen some go big time in stratosphere (auctions).
Additionally retail players may price them in the stratosphere like a QB hurling a pass way downfield lol but you need real buyers with money who will pay the money to really have a successful play. Have you sold any off the bourse at a show?
My statement above says it all. But I'll add that I was in a cocky, gambling mood, as I allowed them to start from scratch with a re-grade(no min grade selected). Also, I have a 66+ set in PCGS Gold Shield w/CAC, and a cross at 66+ would've been less painful than the 6. And, I hadn't taken into account the no-line fatties factor. All in all, ouch, as Sunshine RC said.
Thanks for sharing Rc5280.
I bought this 1809 CBH years ago and knew it was undergraded in its NGC AU50 green CAC Fatty holder so I sent it to JA and he agreed and changed the sticker to gold. 😃
Years later I decided to cross it, hoping it would come back as a PCGS 50 so I can get the gold sticker back on but it upgraded on the crossover to 53. 😩
I still thought however that it was undergraded as a 53 and had a chance at getting the gold sticker back on, but when I sent it back in JA gave it a green sticker as a 53. 😩
I continued to believe the coin was undergraded and so sent it back to PCGS for regrade (in the 53 CAC holder) and it upgraded to 55. I knew that 55 was the correct grade all along. The big question at that time however was did JA agree with me that it was a 55.
Although I was happy it ended up in a PCGS 55 CAC holder, I still wonder to this day if I left money on the table by getting rid of the NGC AU50 gold CAC Fatty holder. 🤔
Thoughts?
Dave
In the past there was at least a $200 premium for the 'gold CAC' on a slab.
Depending on the coin, why would you even try? maybe if improving a grade increases value by $1K+
Given all of the grading and shipping expense and the value of old holders with gold stickers, I think you're probably breaking even at best.
Really great coin though!
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
@drddm its important to have fun with your coins and it seems like you had fun with this one!
But I think it’s worth more to many people as an old holdered 50 gold cac than a plain old newly-graded 55 cac.
For some reason I think people look at a gold sticker and always think the coin is worth what it would be in the grade up, however I’ve always thought it’s at least two grades up. But obviously based on past auctions people pay up….waaaay up for gold stickers these days. I’m still fine with how my 1809 CBH turned out.
NOT MY COIN!!! NOT MY COIN!!! NOT MY COIN!!!
I've always wondered about the second MS66 Barber half dollar (second in the entire series) to ever receive a gold CAC sticker.
The first to receive a gold CAC sticker is my coin, and I still own it, but the second coin was a light tan-lilac NGC MS66 1900 in an old fatty, pre-barcode holder and with perfect hologram on the reverse. It sold at HA for $21,737.50 in 2013 with the gold CAC sticker on it already and was then crossed to PCGS as MS67 with a green CAC sticker. Once it crossed at MS67, the PCGS population became three pieces in the grade and they all had green CAC stickers on them.
The other two coins that are PCGS MS67 with green CAC stickers are the Pogue example with deep, uniform, blue-green toning on both sides and an acceptable online TrueView image while the other is the Akers-Duckor example with PL surfaces with somewhat lighter toning when compared to Pogue, but the TrueView is terrible.
The Pogue example has recorded auction sales of $19,200 at Stack's-Bowers (March, 2020); $18,212.50 at Legend Auctions (July, 2020) and $19,200 at Heritage (February, 2021). Each of these sales occurred when the population was 3/0 (as it is now) and the average was $18,871 when rounded. The Akers-Duckor example has recorded auction sales of $19,975 at Heritage (October, 2015); $22,325 at Legend Auctions (January, 2019); $23,500 at Legend Auctions (January, 2020) and $19,200 at Heritage (August, 2024). The first three sales for this coin were when the population was 2/0 and the last when it was 3/0 and the average sale was $21,250. Overall, the average of the seven auction appearances of these two coins is $20,230.
PCGS TrueView images of the Pogue and Akers-Duckor examples are below with the Pogue coin being top.
The former NGC MS66 gold CAC coin sold, as mentioned previously, at $21,737.50 at Heritage (January, 2013) and then disappeared from any additional auction records. However, it became a PCGS MS67 green CAC sticker coin and was placed in the Hansen set before being crossed to CACG as MS67+ and still in the Hansen set. Images of this coin in its various TPG iterations, are below.
As an old fatty NGC MS66 gold CAC-
As a PCGS MS67 green CAC Hansen-
As a CACG MS67+ Hansen-
If it had been my coin I would have simply left it in the ancient NGC holder with gold CAC sticker on it.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson