@handyman said:
Is it cheaper to just buy the futures contracts vs physical? Every time I buy one at a local coin shop I pay a 3% premium over spot. paper sales have a 3% premium? Never bought one before. Do they have a fee to deliver when requested?
[Edited to fix errors]
I think it's probably one of the cheapest ways to buy if you're in the market for a 1kg or 100oz in one huge bar. By taking delivery you just take title to the bar but then you must pay storage fees for wherever it's being held. Then you can pay to have it taken out of storage and delivered where you want it.
A lot of the discussion here is shortsighted thinking only of purchasing, but selling is just as valid, for instance if you are a gold miner and want to lock in the current price for the gold you plan to produce this week, you would sell a contract to protect yourself from any declines (and deprive you of any further increases). Those transactions are just as valid for establishing what the market price is if Parker Schnabel can sell this week's gold production in a contract on COMEX.
to exercise a futures contract, first you need to find a futures contract that is deliverable instead of cash settled. then you have to get one that is sized to what you can afford to be delivered - the full sized contract is a 100 oz ingot. then you need a broker that allows delivery as many brokers don't allow that and will forcibly close the contract before it gets to the delivery stage. then you have to make arrangements with the counter-party you are paired with to get it delivered. and you'll pay commissions on the futures contract, which isn't large
right now futures are at 3138.10 - kitco spot is at 3112.70 ask - that's 0.8% -
@handyman said:
Is it cheaper to just buy the futures contracts vs physical? Every time I buy one at a local coin shop I pay a 3% premium over spot. paper sales have a 3% premium? Never bought one before. Do they have a fee to deliver when requested?
Yes. It's cheaper to buy a piece of paper with a promise than to buy actual real gold. The US government issued paper money called gold certificates that promised to pay the bearer on demand in gold coin. How did that work out for those holding those gold certificates?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@derryb said:
Looks like the days of inflated data may be over: the truth always prevails.
Do you believe US govt issued data will now be more accurate and representative of economic conditions?
I think there will be changes to the reporting of data that will lead to better and more accurate numbers as well as the systems that gather the data. There is no reason why in this day and age that some of the systems work the way they do and take so long to assemble and report figures. I hope and expect a big investment in modernizing government computer systems will happen.
@derryb said:
Looks like the days of inflated data may be over: the truth always prevails.
Do you believe US govt issued data will now be more accurate and representative of economic conditions?
I think there will be changes to the reporting of data that will lead to better and more accurate numbers as well as the systems that gather the data. There is no reason why in this day and age that some of the systems work the way they do and take so long to assemble and report figures. I hope and expect a big investment in modernizing government computer systems will happen.
I agree that improvements can be made. My hope would be that those statistics are then disseminated, in their entirety, without regard to narrative. The data released ceremoniously on Wednesday however, do not give me much hope. This is not a political comment, but rather on policy. And policy most certainly affects precious metals as evidenced by the 4.5%, 2-day decline in gold and a 13% decline in silver.
@fox9487 You may want to edit out the profanity from your post unless you're trying to get yourself banned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You might want to edit your quote of the other poster. I suspect that he'll be one who's $£€?!% come tomorrow and I'd hate to see any collateral damage.
You might want to edit your quote of the other poster. I suspect that he'll be one who's $£€?!% come tomorrow and I'd hate to see any collateral damage.
Yep...sometimes, standing in the indiscriminate backblast area will get you toasted
All this confirms that the retail investor has little effect on precious metals prices or equities.
The Japanese interest rate hike started all the economic uncertainty. Tariffs were the most recent catalyst for what is going on in the markets. Overleveraged government spending combined with overleveraged investments (bets) are being unwound. Gold and silver will be volatile like stocks.
Suppose the Chinese economy collapses further, and they are forced to sell some of the gold reserve they have been adding to?
@s4ny said:
Trump trying to hurt China. China hurting back by liquidating US Treasurys and buying GOLD. Interest rates rising while Trump wants to raise the debt ceiling, lower taxes and borrow more money. And, Taiwan 100 miles away. What could go wrong?
No, hurting China is not the goal. The goal is to bring fairness to the trade relationship which in addition to tariffs he's likely also looking to get them to play by the rules. I think this interview with Kevin O'Leary is spot on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueRBct5S_BI
@s4ny said:
Trump trying to hurt China. China hurting back by liquidating US Treasurys and buying GOLD. Interest rates rising while Trump wants to raise the debt ceiling, lower taxes and borrow more money. And, Taiwan 100 miles away. What could go wrong?
No, hurting China is not the goal. The goal is to bring fairness to the trade relationship which in addition to tariffs he's likely also looking to get them to play by the rules. I think this interview with Kevin O'Leary is spot on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueRBct5S_BI
China needs nothing from the US. .
Not true. They need our business. Reducing our trade with them by any significant amount will cause their economy to crumble.
@s4ny said:
Trump trying to hurt China. China hurting back by liquidating US Treasurys and buying GOLD. Interest rates rising while Trump wants to raise the debt ceiling, lower taxes and borrow more money. And, Taiwan 100 miles away. What could go wrong?
No, hurting China is not the goal. The goal is to bring fairness to the trade relationship which in addition to tariffs he's likely also looking to get them to play by the rules. I think this interview with Kevin O'Leary is spot on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueRBct5S_BI
China needs nothing from the US. .
Not true. They need our business. Reducing our trade with them by any significant amount will cause their economy to crumble.
@DoubleEagle59 said:
Gold almost back to its historical high.
Is anyone really surprised???
The guy who is selling could be more surprised than the guy buying.
Example : If I bid using the April issue of the greysheet ($2800ish) …. I’m shy about $400 per ounce for gold, and we’re not even two weeks into April.
What do they say ? Sell in May, and go away.
All us PM bulls that have been screaming 'buy gold and silver' for all these years.......you could definitely argue that maybe we jumped the gun about ten years ago.............but for the present, I think the time has begun.
There's no other place I would want to be.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
@DoubleEagle59 said:
All us PM bulls that have been screaming 'buy gold and silver' for all these years.......you could definitely argue that maybe we jumped the gun about ten years ago.............but for the present, I think the time has begun.
There's no other place I would want to be.
You can predict a bull or bear for just about market and never be wrong, just early.
I kind of wish you would have not edited the original post to reflect the price when this thread began. We reach new highs every year and it has nearly tripled since. Fifteen years flew by.
There's a big opportunity in Platinum. This long term (weekly chart) would indicate a breakout price target up near $3k. Could be another year before that happens, but it's going to happen.
I posted a few days ago how I traded 1 oz of gold for 100 ounces of Silver, but I've also been thinking of the trade of 1 oz of gold for three ounces of Platinum??
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
@DoubleEagle59 said:
I posted a few days ago how I traded 1 oz of gold for 100 ounces of Silver, but I've also been thinking of the trade of 1 oz of gold for three ounces of Platinum??
Wasn't all that long ago Pt was selling for over double the price of Au. Remember 2008: $2,000 Pt & $800 Au!
@DoubleEagle59 said:
I posted a few days ago how I traded 1 oz of gold for 100 ounces of Silver, but I've also been thinking of the trade of 1 oz of gold for three ounces of Platinum??
Seems like it would be tempting. Here's a long term Monthly chart for Plat vs Gold. How much lower can it go? Betting on a trend reversal would just be guessing.
@DoubleEagle59 said:
I posted a few days ago how I traded 1 oz of gold for 100 ounces of Silver, but I've also been thinking of the trade of 1 oz of gold for three ounces of Platinum??
Seems like it would be tempting. Here's a long term Monthly chart for Plat vs Gold. How much lower can it go? Betting on a trend reversal would just be guessing.
I agree. We're seeing gold mania this year. Question is how far does it go? I think we're going to get to $3500 before it cools off. At least I hope so. :-)
Before I swapped out any gold for platinum, I'd want to see demand from the world's central banks drop off for gold, and I'd want to see demand for platinum picking up (in spite of it's supply deficit). A classic mistake is to sell the asset that is doing well in order to buy the asset that has been lackluster.
I like platinum, and it will have it's day, but I'd wait for the market to tell me when, rather than to try to second-guess which direction the market is going.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@DoubleEagle59 said:
It's a little over $4400 an ounce in your possible 51st State!!
Is that in Canadian dollars or in real dollars?
There is no such thing as a 'real' dollar. Just part of why we are seeing $3000+.gold. Hard to grasp the fact that the dollar has been debasedover 99% in less than a hundred years!
@DoubleEagle59 said:
It's a little over $4400 an ounce in your possible 51st State!!
Is that in Canadian dollars or in real dollars?
There is no such thing as a 'real' dollar. Just part of why we are seeing $3000+ gold. Hard to grasp the fact that the dollar has been debased over 99% in less than a hundred years
.
Yes, if you go by the price of gold only, the dollar has gone from $20.67 per ounce (official fixed price) in 1933 to $3,200 per ounce today (free market price). In that regard, the dollar has lost 99.35% of its purchasing power.
@dcarr said:
Yes, if you go by the price of gold only, the dollar has gone from $20.67 per ounce (official fixed price) in 1933 to >$3,200 per ounce today (free market price). In that regard, the dollar has lost 99.35% of its purchasing power.
Even if you accept those numers are appropriate (?).....it's a track record probably only bested by Switzerland.
I submit that tolerating a 5.6% annual rise in the gold price has been worth a 3% real GDP rate of economic growth over that time (probably a bit more)....rather than have a lower gold price and lower real GDP growth.
Comments
[Edited to fix errors]
I think it's probably one of the cheapest ways to buy if you're in the market for a 1kg or 100oz in one huge bar. By taking delivery you just take title to the bar but then you must pay storage fees for wherever it's being held. Then you can pay to have it taken out of storage and delivered where you want it.
https://www.cmegroup.com/education/courses/introduction-to-precious-metals/what-is-the-precious-metals-delivery-process.html
A lot of the discussion here is shortsighted thinking only of purchasing, but selling is just as valid, for instance if you are a gold miner and want to lock in the current price for the gold you plan to produce this week, you would sell a contract to protect yourself from any declines (and deprive you of any further increases). Those transactions are just as valid for establishing what the market price is if Parker Schnabel can sell this week's gold production in a contract on COMEX.
to exercise a futures contract, first you need to find a futures contract that is deliverable instead of cash settled. then you have to get one that is sized to what you can afford to be delivered - the full sized contract is a 100 oz ingot. then you need a broker that allows delivery as many brokers don't allow that and will forcibly close the contract before it gets to the delivery stage. then you have to make arrangements with the counter-party you are paired with to get it delivered. and you'll pay commissions on the futures contract, which isn't large
right now futures are at 3138.10 - kitco spot is at 3112.70 ask - that's 0.8% -
Yes. It's cheaper to buy a piece of paper with a promise than to buy actual real gold. The US government issued paper money called gold certificates that promised to pay the bearer on demand in gold coin. How did that work out for those holding those gold certificates?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think gold is holding up pretty well it got there so fast.
Do you believe US govt issued data will now be more accurate and representative of economic conditions?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Welcome back, Dave!
I think there will be changes to the reporting of data that will lead to better and more accurate numbers as well as the systems that gather the data. There is no reason why in this day and age that some of the systems work the way they do and take so long to assemble and report figures. I hope and expect a big investment in modernizing government computer systems will happen.
I agree that improvements can be made. My hope would be that those statistics are then disseminated, in their entirety, without regard to narrative. The data released ceremoniously on Wednesday however, do not give me much hope. This is not a political comment, but rather on policy. And policy most certainly affects precious metals as evidenced by the 4.5%, 2-day decline in gold and a 13% decline in silver.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Hey, look over there, no there.
@fox9487 You may want to edit out the profanity from your post unless you're trying to get yourself banned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You might want to edit your quote of the other poster. I suspect that he'll be one who's $£€?!% come tomorrow and I'd hate to see any collateral damage.
Yep...sometimes, standing in the indiscriminate backblast area will get you toasted
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I feel like a ping pong ball.
All this confirms that the retail investor has little effect on precious metals prices or equities.
The Japanese interest rate hike started all the economic uncertainty. Tariffs were the most recent catalyst for what is going on in the markets. Overleveraged government spending combined with overleveraged investments (bets) are being unwound. Gold and silver will be volatile like stocks.
Suppose the Chinese economy collapses further, and they are forced to sell some of the gold reserve they have been adding to?
No, hurting China is not the goal. The goal is to bring fairness to the trade relationship which in addition to tariffs he's likely also looking to get them to play by the rules. I think this interview with Kevin O'Leary is spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueRBct5S_BI
Not true. They need our business. Reducing our trade with them by any significant amount will cause their economy to crumble.
Does the USA need China?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Gold almost back to its historical high.
Is anyone really surprised???
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
New ATHs tonight, 3212 is the high so far.
kitco 3200
As we say in INDY,,,,, 'A new track record"
except every time that I refresh the page the price of gold is higher
The guy who is selling could be more surprised than the guy buying.
Example : If I bid using the April issue of the greysheet ($2800ish) …. I’m shy about $400 per ounce for gold, and we’re not even two weeks into April.
What do they say ? Sell in May, and go away.
Update made this morning. New futures ATH: $3262.30
All us PM bulls that have been screaming 'buy gold and silver' for all these years.......you could definitely argue that maybe we jumped the gun about ten years ago.............but for the present, I think the time has begun.
There's no other place I would want to be.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
You can predict a bull or bear for just about market and never be wrong, just early.
I kind of wish you would have not edited the original post to reflect the price when this thread began. We reach new highs every year and it has nearly tripled since. Fifteen years flew by.
There's a big opportunity in Platinum. This long term (weekly chart) would indicate a breakout price target up near $3k. Could be another year before that happens, but it's going to happen.
I posted a few days ago how I traded 1 oz of gold for 100 ounces of Silver, but I've also been thinking of the trade of 1 oz of gold for three ounces of Platinum??
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Wasn't all that long ago Pt was selling for over double the price of Au. Remember 2008: $2,000 Pt & $800 Au!
Seems like it would be tempting. Here's a long term Monthly chart for Plat vs Gold. How much lower can it go? Betting on a trend reversal would just be guessing.
However, Palladium may be at support and ready to go back up.
trend reversals can instead really be bear market bounces
I agree. We're seeing gold mania this year. Question is how far does it go? I think we're going to get to $3500 before it cools off. At least I hope so. :-)
Before I swapped out any gold for platinum, I'd want to see demand from the world's central banks drop off for gold, and I'd want to see demand for platinum picking up (in spite of it's supply deficit). A classic mistake is to sell the asset that is doing well in order to buy the asset that has been lackluster.
I like platinum, and it will have it's day, but I'd wait for the market to tell me when, rather than to try to second-guess which direction the market is going.
I knew it would happen.
There is no such thing as a 'real' dollar. Just part of why we are seeing $3000+.gold. Hard to grasp the fact that the dollar has been debasedover 99% in less than a hundred years!
.
Yes, if you go by the price of gold only, the dollar has gone from $20.67 per ounce (official fixed price) in 1933 to $3,200 per ounce today (free market price). In that regard, the dollar has lost 99.35% of its purchasing power.
.
That's not the right question...."need."
The real question is are we linked such that "need" aside....the pain to us or both sides isn't worth it.
It would be far preferable if China opened up her markets and relied more on domestic consumption rather than an export model.
Even if you accept those numers are appropriate (?).....it's a track record probably only bested by Switzerland.
I submit that tolerating a 5.6% annual rise in the gold price has been worth a 3% real GDP rate of economic growth over that time (probably a bit more)....rather than have a lower gold price and lower real GDP growth.
God Bless the Metal of Kings. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I do believe the Metal of Kings be painting new ATH's. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
3291.60
April 15th...sell gold to pay taxes!
Use tax refund to buy gold!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Central bank accumulation as they prepare to dump US Treasuries like a bad habit. IMO. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™