Changes at the Smithsonian
sellitstore
Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭✭✭
With a new executive order directed at the Smithsonian, how might our National Numismatic Collection be affected? What about our ability to do research there?
Is a sale of parts or all of the NNC even a possibility for consideration? It cost money to store and display it and could be a source of revenue for the government who always needs money. And then there's the argument that the collection is actually safer dispersed rather than all in one place. Donate it to the ANA? I wouldn't be in favor of selling it but will this question even be considered in the current government shakeup?
What about our ability to do research? Staff to oversee us cost money and this could be cut. Some agencies are seeing 50% cuts. I hope that our ability to do research at this unreplaceable resource is maintained.
These questions are political by nature and my politics is to keep our NNC and to maintain access for research. I don't see that as taking sides, except with numismatists. Shouldn't we be able to root for our team here or do we all need to avoid this topic?
Comments
Here we go again. Another political thread. I have no reason to believe anything will change at the SI in regard to the NNC. What evidence do you have to prove otherwise?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The Smithsonian museums have many 'unique' collectibles. For the most part, it would not bother me much if some were sold to lower storage and maintenance costs. Linked is an article from the Smitsonian magazine discussing the Sotheby's auction of 3 privately held collectibles.
https://smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/1933-double-eagle-sells-189-million-sets-world-record-most-valuable-coin-180977965/
I was looking through the Smithsonian's picture catalog at coins and got tired after just looking at all of their PROOF double eagles. Just think of the complete type registry set they could make.
Not claiming that anything will change. Just asking the question. Why, do you know that all will remain the same? What evidence do you have? Read my post and desist with your determinations of MY politics on this. As I said, I'm for numismatists-whose side are you on? Silence, it would seem.
Tired of your false accusations of politics when this directly affects us as numismatists and YOU decide that we can't discuss this. Why are you so cowered by this subject as it affects all of us numismatists? Should we consider selling some of the NNC is much more in our lane than all of the other political discussion out there.
Yes, I would think that duplicates should be sold, at the very least. But I don't know if I would touch the core collection and would like to hear opinions, rather than efforts to shut down the thread as "offered" by @PerryHall .
I doubt anything will change. I don't understand why you are so concerned. Please explain why you are concerned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
They should clean them thoroughly and sell them all nice and shiny.
ETTD
What is "ETTD"?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Not particularly concerned with something over which I have little to no control, but thought that it might be of interest to other numismatists. If it's not, that's fine, too, but I find it a bit curious. As a numismatist for over half a century, I find this subject of interest.
It almost seems that there's a fear of being banned by some who might actually have an interest in this subject but I don't think that the question of selling the NNC or parts of it is political.
There have been previous threads on the Smithsonian but I think that it's become relevant again. From reading these threads, many started by longtime members here, still active, nearly all seem to involve some interaction with the Museum or a desire to interact with it. Just wondering why some of those who have used the Smithsonian resources feel about any potential changes to access due to staff cuts. I don't think that we are considering expanding the Museum staff and would think that some might be even more concerned with cuts than I.
Again, I don't personally use use the Museum for research but might in the future. To that extent, I'm concerned, but that's a very small concern. However, do a search on "Smithsonian" here and you can see many of our favorite members' postings, still here and gone, that have had direct experience with the Smithsonian. There's plenty of interest here in the Smithsonian. I'm pretty sure that there are many other members here that could be affected, but it's too political discuss how this might affect our plans and projects?
Just keep it to numismatics and how this could affect your interactions with the Smithsonian. No need to be any more political than that.
I think the Smithsonian should keep their hundred favorite coins in a permanent public display.
And sell anything they can’t display.
If i read the directive correctly then the coin collection will not be affected at all.
Please get over this political stuff. If I post that I'm worried because the party in power will cut the scientists at the National Weather Bureau and I won't know if it will snow here, it's the same thing. I'm not going to yell ITS A POLITICAL POST! My pants will stay dry.
IMO, the OP is thinking ahead. I think the museum gets funds from the government, so it is more likely than not there will be cuts there also. Nevertheless, in the real world, I doubt more than 1% of the members here (me included) have ever been to that museum or seen the coin collection. I'll also bet we can count on five fingers or less (no banned members count so we lost at least two who have done research there) anyone here who has done research there. For me, it's an interesting observation and also a nothingburger. I'm interested what others here think.
How many coins have been donated to the SI and are then box-up and put into permanent storage never to see the light of day again?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Lots and lots!
Actually, it was a rhetorical question but it wouldn't surprise me it was in the hundreds of thousands. The SI could sell these coins over a period of time and the money could be used to support the operation of the SI.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think that is a "museum thing" that happens all over the world. After all, it is OUR National Coin Collection making all Americans' coin collectors in spirit.
Sell off duplicates but keep the bulk of the collection together for any to see. I know we’re in a cost cutting mode but that should start with waste, fraud, duplication of services and improving efficiency.
I think that the time to worry, and to do something to prevent it happening, is BEFORE our unelected efficiency expert orders the whole (darned) collection dumped into the nearest CoinStar Machine!
Wouldn't you agree?
I seem to recall reading at some point in the distant past that the number IS in the hundreds of thousands.
No, not political at all. 🙄
No. I think your worries are ridiculous. Doge can only make recommendations to save money and to make the government run more efficiently. They have no authority or power to change anything. Only the agency heads can make changes. Are you against eliminating government waste?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Along with other interesting breakdowns. it states on the site "The National Numismatic Collection is comprised of approximately 1.6 million objects and is thought to be the largest money collection in the world."
https://americanhistory.si.edu/about/departments/work-and-industry/national-numismatic-collection/collection
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I volunteer to run it through a CoinStar Machine, per CaptHenway's orders, as long as I can keep stuff from the reject slot.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
No, only partly. Please take this comment to you post as a non-political effort to make sure that more of us posting here become more informed about the workings of our government because of any effect it may have on our numismatic pursuits:
Unfortunately, the only ELECTED MEMBERS IN ANY ADMINISTRATION ARE THE PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT! Everyone else in any administration is UNELECTED.
I am pretty sure that the order had nothing to do with any of the collections per say. It was also to be lead by JD Vance and has nothing to do with spending or saving money.
Thats the last I will comment. Please go reread the order.
LOL, what a knee-jerk response.
Nice touch with the exclamation point -- That really augments your reply!
They probably already have many times. Supposedly they did this all the time in the late 1800s.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
I wonder if the boxes would qualify as OGP.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
The vault has an enormous number of cabinets, each with dozens of trays/shelves that can hold many dozen individual coins, so it's some incredible large number. That said, even what isn't on display has value as researchers can arrange to study the museum holdings. There is a benefit not only to having everything in one place, but for all of those items to be accessible. If the collection were dispersed to museums across the country, it would be much harder to do research, and accessibility would be lost altogether if the items were sold to private hands and individually locked away.
So yes, it's true that lots of coins are not routinely viewed by the public, but that doesn't mean they're locked away and serving no purpose being where they are.
This makes one member who has been there. Need four more.
Lots of good reading here...........................too bad most of the images are gone.
Enjoy the posts by the early forum's finest.
The best thread on the Smithsonian thanks to saintguru
Depending on how frequently they have to post, I've got at least 3 off the top of my head, if not more.
I've seen the SI coin collection on display, the "Gold Room" was poop-your-pants amazing! However, I have not seen the cabinets.
I worry over defunding museums, but the SI coin collection is well down the list of my concerns.
Ill tip-toe in here. Besides the obvious of metallurgy, what type of research could be done on the actual coins that couldn't be done with high resolution photos?
Weight, Specific Gravity.
Depth of relief.
Die alignment*
*might be possible with mirrors, but I am not sure as to precision.
I've been in the vault room a few times, and I know many other people who have been there as well. It is a great resource, and a ton of fun. (Yes, those are THE 1877 $50 Half Unions!)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
One of my visits there was with Tom Koessl, the collector who built the finest collection of matte proof gold ever assembled. Tom was extremely careful to only buy coins that were perfectly original, which is way harder to do that you might imagine. First, because so many coins have been messed with. Second, because each year has it's own distinct color and finish, sometimes two, which makes it harder to keep everything straight in one's head. And third, because some coins become available so infrequently that you can get a little rusty. Anyway, at some point Tom and I realized that we would benefit from a refresher course, so we arranged to view the matte proof gold donated by the US Mint to the Smithsonian. No question about the originality of those coins! Mission accomplished.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It's funny. Images will often show things we miss with our eyes; but our eyes, touch, and measurements reveal things a photo cannot.
The Executive Order aimed at the Smithsonian is aimed specifically at perceived ideological bias in exhibits. It's not aimed at cost-cutting or revenue-raising.
The standard mindset for a museum is that the museum's collection should never be sold on the open market, because private ownership of national treasures is anathema. There's nothing in the Executive Order to countermand this.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
Yes, just I had suggested, some actually seem to have done the "Smithsonian" search here and found just how many of us had been to or interacted with the Smithsonian. I was surprised at the number which is much more than five. Of course we care what happens at the Smithsonian.
And nobody should feel that they have to tiptoe into this discussion. It doesn't need to be political although two members here have veered back in that direction. @Farmer_Bill raised the same question that came to my mind-Photograph and document information before selling any coins. I'm pretty sure that all of the information that @CaptHenway identifies can be determined and recorded before the sale of any examples. I do like the idea of having them all in the same place, as suggested by @airplanenut but I'm not sure it necessary.
Some numismatists like to get lost in the minutia of new die varieties of Jefferson Nickels. At this point in my journey, I like to consider broader questions and sincerely thank those who have offered their perspectives. There's room for both types of discussions here.
I'm still waiting for a response to my question. What is ETTD?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I didn't know, either so I Googled it. (Perhaps you did, too).
If poster who first used it meant it as it appears in my search, he deserved jail bars across his icon.