Can't PCGS correct a cert properly?
raycyca
Posts: 1,684 ✭✭✭
I HATE to be bringing up yet another issue. I know have had this problem as well. That's the ONLY reason it's here! I brought to attention of PCGS customer service that I requested that a cert number be deactivated/removed because the coin was upgraded and sold with the new cert number. I've sent THREE emails with photos and descriptions each time. They keep coming back with the same response. Here's the details:
In Nov 2024 I purchased a 1974-D Kennedy in MS 67+ with cert number: 49658848 from Stacks Bowers. This coin shows up in the Coinfacts website site as cert number: 44838354. If you compare the two coins side by side in the photos, they are the same coin. An easy way to tell is bring two tabs open, go to the Stacks Bowers website and search for the Nov 2024 Showcase auction session 5, coins parts 2, quarters to dollars. Look at lot number 5110. This is cert number 49658848 which is on the holder, CORRECT! But, now in the second tab, open it up to the Coinfacts website, look at cert number: 44838354, OR, go to the value guide for 1974-P Kennedy in MS 67 grade and scroll down until you see cert number 44838354. It's the same coin, OK so far? Does it appear to be the same exact coin, or is it a coincidence?
NOW for PCGS's response, specifically from Isidro G., associate customer service care representative: Thank you for the information, but we would need the original submitter's or Stacks to contact us on this matter. We cannot remove a cert number from our system without obtaining communication from the original submitter on this. Please have them reach out to us on this. If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Kind Regards,
Isidro G.
Associate Customer Care Representative
First: How can you contact the original submitter since it has already been upgraded? Whom will provide that information, PCGS? Why can't they contact them since they are the ONLY ones with that privileged information, correct?
Second: PCGS has had both coins slabbed using the Gold Shield technology, isn't that why we pay extra for that service? Isn't that used to detect/sniff coins for foul play, they scan each coin since they are used like fingerprints to identify every coin? The scanning can identify a coin that was stollen, broken out and resubmitted to detect that stollen coin if reported and be able to return the coin to the original owner as told to me from the customer care folks. Do we all agree? To remove a cert from the POPs, PCGS tells us to submit a photo of the front and back of the coin in the holder. I did. I don't have a photo of cert number 44838354, but PCGS does in their history.
Third: How can Stacks have anything to do with this since they only provide a coin for sale that placed on consignment from a seller with good faith. That is, if found to be stollen they will/should make the buyer whole. They provide a service to the buyer and seller to remove a coin from a collection and place it into another's collection to fill a slot/need/dream, correct? They are providing a service of buying/selling only.
Fourth: They don't care about correct PCGS cert numbers, that's PCGS' job!!! If the POPs aren't correct, which is VERY much true, then how can they value the coins and verify the POPs? I have assisted in the past with POPs and prices in a couple of series that I follow closely and have provided them with a wealth of information/backgroud that they can go out and verify easily. I can't count how many communications we've had back and forth on these numbers, but it has corrected over a hundred items over the years. Has anyone else had this problem? Sorry for the rant/rave. Friday has gotten the better of this old man. Am I asking too much or being too cynical? I thought that PCGS stood for Professional coin grading service, that means getting most thing right, not everything.
Comments
Based on looking at the two images, it should be fairly clear that it is the same coin. However some of these policies are followed almost to absurdity. So if the company does not receive the label back, they will not deactivate the old cert numbers in many cases.
As far as the gold shield technology, that is more marketing than reality. I have not seen evidence that it does much. Coins with gold shield upgrade, downgrade, and go from details to straight grade. It does help us catch examples like your case but PCGS likely rarely uses it to do what we would expect.
When a single memer continues to have issues and problems with a business while others are sailing along just fine I begin to question if it is the business that is at fault or the difficult to please customer.
🤣
"Sailing along"? You have got to be kidding here. Is this satire? Or are you the PR guy from PCGS here to do recon? I'm not sure how long you've been closely following the threads here the past couple years, but there have been a multitude of issues that have been woefully difficult to get remedied. Trueviews, Incorrect certification info, faulty registry, months long overdue orders, variety attribution, website and forum bugs, piss-poor communication methods, the list goes on and on. Around 50% of my orders have some type of issue, and at this point I don't even bother putting myself through the pain of contacting the outsourced customer service representatives when language barriers prevent effective comprehension.
PCGS has internal records of the coin upgrading if it was a recon or regrade, but even if its cracked out, it only takes half decent competency for someone to confirm that both certs are of the same coin. It benefits NO ONE for the census to be inflated with erroneous pop numbers, and it only serves to lower the value based on perceived availability. No one's asking for them to go digging through aprs, but if it's pointed out with links and photos by a customer who already did the legwork, it would be easy to deactivate the old cert.
That's not even why I chose to respond, but I noticed how on OP's other thread you attempted to shift the burden of responsibility to the OP by putting forth theoretical reasons of how he could have possibly messed something up, as if it's such a rare occurrence for the ball to be dropped on a submission . I'm not sure why you have the propensity to defend PCGS/CU and their Private Equity owners, but it makes me question how many or how often you make submissions or utilize the registry. I don't really have a strong position and I wouldn't have responded to this thread, perhaps the OP could be tough to please, and the pop reports are most likely a lost cause. With that said, the notion that the rest of us are just "sailing along" is laughably absurd, when the fact of the matter is that most of us just bite our tongue in an attempt to avoid wasting time and energy, and also to preserve our sanity. I wasn't able to do so here unfortunately, but I couldn't help but chime in after observing a case of brand loyalty extremism that makes me question what reality you choose to exist in. If there's some parallel universe where orders are always on point and PCGS rarely makes mistakes, my only question would be...Is there any room for me there?
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I cracked out a PCGS coin and had it graded raw. I then sent the old certification label to them and they finally deactivated the old cert. But, they never did reduce the population by one.
My Carson City Morgan Registry Set
In case @Sanddollar didn’t read your post the first time, hopefully, he’ll read it now.
And even if he did already read it, based on his replies in this and the other thread you referenced, he should read it a second time.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
44838354 should have been deactivated when it was submitted for upgrade and the grade changed. It should be easy enough for PCGS to go back to that submission and correct it. It's not rocket science.
This was both eye-opening and educational to read along with being a bit painful personally to do so.
Good for you for taking constructive criticism and new information well. We all wish that PCGS was doing better but unfortunately it's been nothing but a spiral downward for the last couple of years.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
@PeakRarities
Nice to see Deplorable Dan posting again, even if he did take me out to the woodshed.
@MFeld
I understood what Dan was stating. Mark, you just piled on. That generally goes again your nature and is a bit beneath you.
@lermish
Thank you. We are nothing if not ripe for learning and then changing our opinion(s).