1921 GTG Answered

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Morgan13
Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 29, 2025 5:26PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I just added another 1921 to my collection. The first thing that caught my eye was the detail of this coin.

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  • airplanenut
    airplanenut Posts: 22,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    MS64. I don't think the cheek chatter is heavy enough for a 63, and I'm also assuming that what looks like haze in the upper obverse field is light at most. I could see the coin being a PL, but I can't judge that well from the photos.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • PClark99
    PClark99 Posts: 123 ✭✭✭✭
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    65PL but I could be wrong.

  • Eldorado9
    Eldorado9 Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    64

  • HighRelief
    HighRelief Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    64+

  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2025 9:22AM
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    @airplanenut said:
    MS64. I don't think the cheek chatter is heavy enough for a 63, and I'm also assuming that what looks like haze in the upper obverse field is light at most. I could see the coin being a PL, but I can't judge that well from the photos.

    What looks like shade is where my phone camera did not cover the coin completely. Yea the photos leave alot to be desired. Sorry about that. I have to break out my Canon.
    We will just do this for fun.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Not sure if these will help.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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  • Walkerfan
    Walkerfan Posts: 10,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    63

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

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  • coastaljerseyguy
    coastaljerseyguy Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    63 here also. nice strike on reverse

  • vplite99
    vplite99 Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Solid 64.

    Vplite99
  • ProofCollection
    ProofCollection Posts: 8,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    63-64PL

  • john_nyc1
    john_nyc1 Posts: 247 ✭✭✭
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    65PL

    Casual collector: Morgans & Peace Dollars & 20th Century Type Set. Successful BST transactions with ProofCollection, Morgan13, CoinFinder, CoinHunter4, Bretsan.

  • RedRocket
    RedRocket Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    63PL

  • jfriedm56
    jfriedm56 Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    64PL

  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,866 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2025 12:26PM
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    Above average prooflike, probably impossible to get a dmpl on these. Very hard to tell with the pics., probably a tall task to image it.

  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2025 11:46AM
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    @logger7 said:
    Gem prooflike, probably impossible to get a dmpl on these.

    PCGS has 19 DMPL's
    I'll post the answer once we hit 20 responses or when get home from work.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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  • Mr_Spud
    Mr_Spud Posts: 7,272 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    64

    Mr_Spud

  • Higashiyama
    Higashiyama Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    64+

    Very nice coin.

    Higashiyama
  • airplanenut
    airplanenut Posts: 22,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Morgan13 said:

    @airplanenut said:
    MS64. I don't think the cheek chatter is heavy enough for a 63, and I'm also assuming that what looks like haze in the upper obverse field is light at most. I could see the coin being a PL, but I can't judge that well from the photos.

    What looks like shade is where my phone camera did not cover the coin completely. Yea the photos leave alot to be desired. Sorry about that. I have to break out my Canon.
    We will just do this for fun.

    With the new photos, I'll keep my 64 and say no PL

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    63

  • Higashiyama
    Higashiyama Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Morgan13 - this is an interesting GTG. At your convenience, please let us know the answer!

    Higashiyama
  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    64 no PL but appears strong semi-PL

    Collector, occasional seller

  • johnhenry9009
    johnhenry9009 Posts: 334 ✭✭✭✭
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    I'd say 63 PL

    https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=102076
    https://www.vamworld.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2220
    https://boards.ngccoin.com/profile/61076-johnhenry9009/
    https://www.mycollect.com/Jonhherny9009

  • KiwiNumi
    KiwiNumi Posts: 210 ✭✭✭
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    64

  • U1chicago
    U1chicago Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    MS 63 PL

  • jp84
    jp84 Posts: 224 ✭✭✭
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    62, too much chatter to be higher

  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    This is a real challenge. I think there is a reasonable shot at PL. I am thinking 64PL. And while the marks at eye level might make 64 a tough sell, I think the fields look pretty good for the date and for the PL surfaces. Marks will always be magnified with PL surfaces. For a 1921, this is a nice coin.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Ah, A trick question. We probably should have noticed it was not a PCGS holder.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • Higashiyama
    Higashiyama Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Maybe a trick question, but sure looks nice for a 63. And with the latest image, PL seems very plausible.

    Higashiyama
  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,866 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It would be huge money in a PCGS or NGC slab at similar grade; unlikely to cross without a downgrade. And when PCGS tries to get it out of the SEGS holder, they will have a chore.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hopefully, this thread was fun for the participants.

    However, due to less than ideal images, the difficulty of assessing coins for PL or DPL designations (based even on very good images) and the fact that the grading wasn’t done by a top tier grading company, this was an exercise in futility.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2025 8:44AM
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    Sorry your unhappy about this thread. I didn't mean to upset anyone.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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  • Torey
    Torey Posts: 410 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Morgan13 said:
    Sorry your unhappy about this thread. I didn't mean to upset anyone.

    Doubt anyone is too upset about it, I just think there is an unwritten rule that GTG's should be a top TPG unless otherwise stated.

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  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2025 8:57AM
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    I like the coin as far as SEGS go what's the saying?
    Buy the coin not the holder?
    The detail on this coin is amazing. Full detail.
    Especially for a year that produced many low grade coins from the get go.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2025 9:58AM
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    @Morgan13 said:
    Sorry your unhappy about this thread. I didn't mean to upset anyone.

    I’m not unhappy with or upset by the thread. And even if I were, that would be my problem, not yours. Additionally, I had no criticism of the coin.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2025 10:39AM
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    I don't know what it is but 1921 is my year for Morgan's.


    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Do you agree with SEGS as far as DMPL is concerned?

    Collector, occasional seller

  • ProofCollection
    ProofCollection Posts: 8,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    63-64PL> @MFeld said:

    Hopefully, this thread was fun for the participants.

    However, due to less than ideal images, the difficulty of assessing coins for PL or DPL designations (based even on very good images) and the fact that the grading wasn’t done by a top tier grading company, this was an exercise in futility.

    In all fairness, if OP had disclosed that it was 'guess the SEGS grade,' the guesses would have probably been even higher. But to your point, GTG threads should state which TPG's grade is being guessed if not PCGS.

  • Higashiyama
    Higashiyama Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    But we haven’t asked the obvious question for @Morgan13: how do you grade the coin?

    Higashiyama
  • VanHalen
    VanHalen Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I like it as an MS64PL. That's a really nice 1921 Morgan!

  • john_nyc1
    john_nyc1 Posts: 247 ✭✭✭
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    @Morgan13 Have you or are going to submit to PCGS to cross? What would your minimum required to cross? Nice coin, indeed.

    Casual collector: Morgans & Peace Dollars & 20th Century Type Set. Successful BST transactions with ProofCollection, Morgan13, CoinFinder, CoinHunter4, Bretsan.

  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2025 5:41PM
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    It's entirely possible it may cross to a dmpl.
    I'm just going to the enjoy the coin for now regardless of whether or not it's dmpl.
    To me it's a special coin.
    I also like the SEGS holder.
    That's why I posted my 64+ beside my 63 DMPL candidate.
    I think the 63 looks every bit as good as the 64+

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ChrisH821 said:
    Do you agree with SEGS as far as DMPL is concerned?

    I think it's 50/50. I didn't buy it for resale. The coin makes me happy.
    I wouldn't gamble either way.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
    Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP BruceS bigjpst
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  • Coinscratch
    Coinscratch Posts: 11,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Your 64+ PL has more frost than the DMPL so I agree with a shot PL.
    Either way they both look pretty nice.

  • ProofCollection
    ProofCollection Posts: 8,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Coinscratch said:
    Your 64+ PL has more frost than the DMPL so I agree with a shot PL.
    Either way they both look pretty nice.

    A coin can be PL or DMPL without frost. PL and DMPL pertain to the reflectivity of the fields, not a cameo contrast.

  • Coinscratch
    Coinscratch Posts: 11,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ProofCollection said:

    @Coinscratch said:
    Your 64+ PL has more frost than the DMPL so I agree with a shot PL.
    Either way they both look pretty nice.

    A coin can be PL or DMPL without frost. PL and DMPL pertain to the reflectivity of the fields, not a cameo contrast.

    I disagree with this pertaining to moderns and assumed the same standard would apply to this type.?

  • ProofCollection
    ProofCollection Posts: 8,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2025 11:32PM
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    @Coinscratch said:

    @ProofCollection said:

    @Coinscratch said:
    Your 64+ PL has more frost than the DMPL so I agree with a shot PL.
    Either way they both look pretty nice.

    A coin can be PL or DMPL without frost. PL and DMPL pertain to the reflectivity of the fields, not a cameo contrast.

    I disagree with this pertaining to moderns and assumed the same standard would apply to this type.?

    I would expect the standards explained in this video to apply to Morgans and moderns, but perhaps they change standard for moderns.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpEI3TMGzhg

  • Coinscratch
    Coinscratch Posts: 11,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @proofcollection The video is titled "Surface reflectivity & Contrast" and again about midway through the emphasis on DMPL consists of heavier frost and more contrast. I challenge you to show me one PCGS DMPL Morgan that has no or little frost.

  • ProofCollection
    ProofCollection Posts: 8,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2025 7:57AM
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    @Coinscratch said:
    @proofcollection The video is titled "Surface reflectivity & Contrast" and again about midway through the emphasis on DMPL consists of heavier frost and more contrast. I challenge you to show me one PCGS DMPL Morgan that has no or little frost.

    Consider that there are many Proof coins that also have zero frost or contrast. In the video they discuss contrast when they define CAM and DCAM. Look at the definition on the screen which only discusses reflectivity:

    My 1921-D MS63PL CAC has zero frost or contrast.

  • Coinscratch
    Coinscratch Posts: 11,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @proofcollection That 21 is definitely PL from deep mirrors, very nice.
    I've made a couple but more often they fail. This Kennedy actually has some frost on the reverse though never enough for the coveted DMPL.


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