Maybe they could offer to buy back the one legal one or offer a settlement to retract the guarantee of uniqueness. Then they could sell off all of them. 🤑🤑🤑
Rather than moving production to Denver or Philadelphia, West Point is a good option. They should already have all the necessary infrastructure in place and it takes care of the novelty mintmark as well.
@PerryHall said:
The US has shut down five US mints. Can you name all five?
Dahlonega
Charlotte
Carson City
New Orleans
San Francisco (around 1955)
The SF Mint is still in operation so I was thinking of the United States Mint in Manila, Philippines. Don't forget that the Philippines was a US territory and the coins struck there had "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on the reverse.
Forgot about the Manilla mint.
"The new Mint was opened in 1937. Beginning in 1955, circulating coinage from San Francisco was suspended for 13 years." ... "From 1962 to 1988, the San Francisco Mint was officially an assay office; the San Francisco Assay Office was granted mint status again on March 31, 1988" - wikipedia
It did lose its Mint status. One question I could not find an answer to is what was going on there from 1956 to 1962. Was it actually closed up or was some kind of activity still going on?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Is the SF mint needed? Is it needed THERE?
How much, short term, would it cost to relocate the mint on the West Coast? Where?
How much, longer term, could be saved?
Sometimes, people think with their heart and rationalize it.
If the cent is no longer produced, that should open up significant production capacity at Philadelphia and Denver. Those facilities could pick up the collector coin production from SF, with the consolidation saving taxpayer funds.
Besides “Elon/Trump bad”, what are the counter-arguments I’m overlooking?
I could see some mules coming maybe D/S mintmark or struck on silver planchet varieties.
@Bochiman said:
Is the SF mint needed? Is it needed THERE?
How much, short term, would it cost to relocate the mint on the West Coast? Where?
How much, longer term, could be saved?
Sometimes, people think with their heart and rationalize it.
perhaps s could be sacramento?
taking lessons from renters, perhaps great deals could be secured for facilities... until unforeseen cost overruns could have rents jump some ridiculous amount on the next contract
how are the leases doing on post offices in price per sq ft in comparison to other commercial buildings?
with the decline of sf proper, how much can they realize for the building?
San Francisco has lots of specialized equipment AND PEOPLE TRAINED AND EXPERIENCED IN USING THAT EQUIPMENT. Move the equipment, and you have to move the people or train new ones.
Striking business strike coins, on the other hand, is highly automated. The hardest part is probably mounting the dies right. Receive pre-made planchets in bins, dump them into the hopper on a press, collect the struck coins into ballistic bags, and ship out the ballistic bags.
Denver is obsolete. San Francisco is not.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I had a floor tour of the Philadelphia Mint in 2009. About 40% of the production floor was set up to strike cents. That area can pick up the slack from Denver.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I think they'd need to have something in the western part of the country for business continuity purposes. They opened a BEP branch in Fort Worth, TX, after all, for that reason.
@CaptHenway said:
San Francisco has lots of specialized equipment AND PEOPLE TRAINED AND EXPERIENCED IN USING THAT EQUIPMENT. Move the equipment, and you have to move the people or train new ones.
Striking business strike coins, on the other hand, is highly automated. The hardest part is probably mounting the dies right. Receive pre-made planchets in bins, dump them into the hopper on a press, collect the struck coins into ballistic bags, and ship out the ballistic bags.
Denver is obsolete. San Francisco is not.
.
The Denver Mint is a high-volume producer. In 2001 Denver sent away all of their slower Grabener presses and replaced them with faster Shuler presses. Twelve of those Grabener presses went to the San Francisco Mint and one went to Moonlight Mint
The Grabener presses are better for collector coins, while the Shuler presses are faster. San Francisco was a good fit for the Grabener presses since they were doing more collector coins than Denver was doing at the time.
anyway. they could sell denver and move into a smaller facility. seems a waste to truck quarters and dimes from philly to the west coast
Yes, and I would be sorry to see it go, but my Major was Business and I had a real good Professor in decision making.
Oldest plant, least amount of highly skilled labor.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
The Denver Mint is a high-volume producer. In 2001 Denver sent away all of their slower Grabener presses and replaced them with faster Shuler presses. Twelve of those Grabener presses went to the San Francisco Mint and one went to Moonlight Mint
The Grabener presses are better for collector coins, while the Shuler presses are faster. San Francisco was a good fit for the Grabener presses since they were doing more collector coins than Denver was doing at the time.
what's going on with the presses that made the pucks? do you know?
The Denver Mint is a high-volume producer. In 2001 Denver sent away all of their slower Grabener presses and replaced them with faster Shuler presses. Twelve of those Grabener presses went to the San Francisco Mint and one went to Moonlight Mint
The Grabener presses are better for collector coins, while the Shuler presses are faster. San Francisco was a good fit for the Grabener presses since they were doing more collector coins than Denver was doing at the time.
what's going on with the presses that made the pucks? do you know?
.
I do not know. None were ever in Denver from what I can tell.
@davewesen said:
I understand why the mint was started there, but those reasons no longer apply. They are not processing and utilizing CA/NV gold or NV/ID silver (are they?).
Does the US Mint really need four manufacturing plants in the country? I do not know ages, capacities, room for growth, production costs per unit, long term product requirements ... or any of those things that would be needed to consider for changes
It does seem that 4 facilities to make coins is unnecessary and it is time to revisit this and perhaps consolidate and expand into one new central facility. Without knowing and understanding the numbers involved it's hard to speculate but almost assuredly if the US mint was a private company they would do something like this.
@CaptHenway said:
San Francisco has lots of specialized equipment AND PEOPLE TRAINED AND EXPERIENCED IN USING THAT EQUIPMENT. Move the equipment, and you have to move the people or train new ones.
Striking business strike coins, on the other hand, is highly automated. The hardest part is probably mounting the dies right. Receive pre-made planchets in bins, dump them into the hopper on a press, collect the struck coins into ballistic bags, and ship out the ballistic bags.
Similar arguments were made in the prior 3 decades every time a US manufacturing company moved a factory overseas. I'm not aware of any that failed because they were unable to train and transfer skill sets and equipment.
Read this story (originally in the New York Times) about how the Royal Mint has gone into the business of extracting gold and other metals from e-waste basically to stay open. The story says that the Royal Mint no longer produces circulation coins for other countries, and that last year it only produced 15.8 MILLION coins for circulation in Great Britain.
Here in the Royal Mint's equivalent to the Mint Report for FY 2023-2024 it confirms that the total production was 15.8 million 50 Pence coins. Maybe there is demand for a coin of the new King.
If that First World country has almost no demand for new coinage, when will the demand for new U.S. circulation coinage also collapse? I'm an old coin fanatic, but I too have fallen for the ease of electronic payments. I may have received ten coins in change in the past six months.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Where does the metal come from for the US Mint production? I remember when they first started clad coinage, it was made via explosion welding and sheets were bought. Do they make their own now? or still buy it? If they are buying it, it might be best to move closer to that production site.
@davewesen said:
Where does the metal come from for the US Mint production? I remember when they first started clad coinage, it was made via explosion welding and sheets were bought. Do they make their own now? or still buy it? If they are buying it, it might be best to move closer to that production site.
I'm not convinced that transportation costs or logistics of raw materials are a meaningful obstacle or expense in modern mint operations, other than at times silver planchets seem to be in limited supply. Still, I would not want the US government involved in mining, I think the private sector can do it better.
Don't forget that the Denver site is supposedly home to a significant portion of the nation's gold reserves.
It would cost a lot to build an new facility for it and relocate it.
@davewesen said:
Where does the metal come from for the US Mint production? I remember when they first started clad coinage, it was made via explosion welding and sheets were bought. Do they make their own now? or still buy it? If they are buying it, it might be best to move closer to that production site.
I'm not convinced that transportation costs or logistics of raw materials are a meaningful obstacle or expense in modern mint operations, other than at times silver planchets seem to be in limited supply. Still, I would not want the US government involved in mining, I think the private sector can do it better.
I agree, which also applies to finished product. The original reasons for having multiple US Mint locations is no longer relevant.
@dcarr said:
Don't forget that the Denver site is supposedly home to a significant portion of the nation's gold reserves.
It would cost a lot to build an new facility for it and relocate it.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@291fifth said:
How long before this post goes totally political?
Probably too late already, but but how about we open a new mint somewhere that is more cost effective for employees -- say Carson City, Dahlonega, or New Orleans -- what a step back in time that would be.
@291fifth said:
How long before this post goes totally political?
Probably too late already, but but how about we open a new mint somewhere that is more cost effective for employees -- say Carson City, Dahlonega, or New Orleans -- what a step back in time that would be.
@291fifth said:
How long before this post goes totally political?
Probably too late already, but but how about we open a new mint somewhere that is more cost effective for employees -- say Carson City, Dahlonega, or New Orleans -- what a step back in time that would be.
@JBK said:
From the CCAC website (with emphasis added):
Mission and Purpose The CCAC was established in 2003 by Congress under Public Law 108-15 to advise the Secretary of the Treasury on the themes and designs of all U.S. coins and medals. The CCAC serves as an informed, experienced, and impartial resource to the Secretary of the Treasury and represents the interests of American citizens and collectors.
It seems that the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee is now going to shift its focus to lobbying the public on political issues, so perhaps its "Mission and Purpose" statement should be changed, and the CCAC itself should be reviewed by DOGE.
@JBK said:
From the CCAC website (with emphasis added):
Mission and Purpose The CCAC was established in 2003 by Congress under Public Law 108-15 to advise the Secretary of the Treasury on the themes and designs of all U.S. coins and medals. The CCAC serves as an informed, experienced, and impartial resource to the Secretary of the Treasury and represents the interests of American citizens and collectors.
It seems that the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee is now going to shift its focus to lobbying the public on political issues, so perhaps its "Mission and Purpose" statement should be changed, and the CCAC itself should be reviewed by DOGE.
@JBK said:
From the CCAC website (with emphasis added):
Mission and Purpose The CCAC was established in 2003 by Congress under Public Law 108-15 to advise the Secretary of the Treasury on the themes and designs of all U.S. coins and medals. The CCAC serves as an informed, experienced, and impartial resource to the Secretary of the Treasury and represents the interests of American citizens and collectors.
It seems that the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee is now going to shift its focus to lobbying the public on political issues, so perhaps its "Mission and Purpose" statement should be changed, and the CCAC itself should be reviewed by DOGE.
@291fifth said:
How long before this post goes totally political?
Probably too late already, but but how about we open a new mint somewhere that is more cost effective for employees -- say Carson City, Dahlonega, or New Orleans -- what a step back in time that would be.
@291fifth said:
How long before this post goes totally political?
Probably too late already, but but how about we open a new mint somewhere that is more cost effective for employees -- say Carson City, Dahlonega, or New Orleans -- what a step back in time that would be.
@291fifth said:
How long before this post goes totally political?
Probably too late already, but but how about we open a new mint somewhere that is more cost effective for employees -- say Carson City, Dahlonega, or New Orleans -- what a step back in time that would be.
@291fifth said:
How long before this post goes totally political?
Probably too late already, but but how about we open a new mint somewhere that is more cost effective for employees -- say Carson City, Dahlonega, or New Orleans -- what a step back in time that would be.
Is minting money and printing bills a legitimate government function like police, fire, air traffic control, post office? Or should it be privatized or contracted out like the defense industry?
@Custerlost said:
Is minting money and printing bills a legitimate government function like police, fire, air traffic control, post office? Or should it be privatized or contracted out like the defense industry?
Take a look at Article I, Section 8, Clause 5 of the United States Constitution:
[The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and . . .
Comments
Ha! That's actually a great idea, although I suppose there is one individual who would strongly disagree.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Maybe they could offer to buy back the one legal one or offer a settlement to retract the guarantee of uniqueness. Then they could sell off all of them. 🤑🤑🤑
Rather than moving production to Denver or Philadelphia, West Point is a good option. They should already have all the necessary infrastructure in place and it takes care of the novelty mintmark as well.
Coin Photographer.
west point can't mint enough ase either
Forgot about the Manilla mint.
"The new Mint was opened in 1937. Beginning in 1955, circulating coinage from San Francisco was suspended for 13 years." ... "From 1962 to 1988, the San Francisco Mint was officially an assay office; the San Francisco Assay Office was granted mint status again on March 31, 1988" - wikipedia
It did lose its Mint status. One question I could not find an answer to is what was going on there from 1956 to 1962. Was it actually closed up or was some kind of activity still going on?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I'd like to hope so.
Pete
Might as well auction off some of the Smithsonian's excess holdings, too?
Is the SF mint needed? Is it needed THERE?
How much, short term, would it cost to relocate the mint on the West Coast? Where?
How much, longer term, could be saved?
Sometimes, people think with their heart and rationalize it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I could see some mules coming maybe D/S mintmark or struck on silver planchet varieties.
perhaps s could be sacramento?
taking lessons from renters, perhaps great deals could be secured for facilities... until unforeseen cost overruns could have rents jump some ridiculous amount on the next contract
how are the leases doing on post offices in price per sq ft in comparison to other commercial buildings?
with the decline of sf proper, how much can they realize for the building?
bonuses, but they stopped punching dies after 1989
San Francisco has lots of specialized equipment AND PEOPLE TRAINED AND EXPERIENCED IN USING THAT EQUIPMENT. Move the equipment, and you have to move the people or train new ones.
Striking business strike coins, on the other hand, is highly automated. The hardest part is probably mounting the dies right. Receive pre-made planchets in bins, dump them into the hopper on a press, collect the struck coins into ballistic bags, and ship out the ballistic bags.
Denver is obsolete. San Francisco is not.
o no u di nt
I had a floor tour of the Philadelphia Mint in 2009. About 40% of the production floor was set up to strike cents. That area can pick up the slack from Denver.
noting you live in colo.
anyway. they could sell denver and move into a smaller facility. seems a waste to truck quarters and dimes from philly to the west coast
right but 89?
I think they'd need to have something in the western part of the country for business continuity purposes. They opened a BEP branch in Fort Worth, TX, after all, for that reason.
how about in the center? the L mint in st louis?
.
The Denver Mint is a high-volume producer. In 2001 Denver sent away all of their slower Grabener presses and replaced them with faster Shuler presses. Twelve of those Grabener presses went to the San Francisco Mint and one went to Moonlight Mint
The Grabener presses are better for collector coins, while the Shuler presses are faster. San Francisco was a good fit for the Grabener presses since they were doing more collector coins than Denver was doing at the time.
.
Yes, and I would be sorry to see it go, but my Major was Business and I had a real good Professor in decision making.
Oldest plant, least amount of highly skilled labor.
i was just having fun with you being in colo and saying "denver is obsolete" at the same time
what's going on with the presses that made the pucks? do you know?
.
I do not know. None were ever in Denver from what I can tell.
.
It does seem that 4 facilities to make coins is unnecessary and it is time to revisit this and perhaps consolidate and expand into one new central facility. Without knowing and understanding the numbers involved it's hard to speculate but almost assuredly if the US mint was a private company they would do something like this.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Similar arguments were made in the prior 3 decades every time a US manufacturing company moved a factory overseas. I'm not aware of any that failed because they were unable to train and transfer skill sets and equipment.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Read this story (originally in the New York Times) about how the Royal Mint has gone into the business of extracting gold and other metals from e-waste basically to stay open. The story says that the Royal Mint no longer produces circulation coins for other countries, and that last year it only produced 15.8 MILLION coins for circulation in Great Britain.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/royal-mint-is-chuffed-about-turning-electronic-waste-into-gold-jewelry/
Here in the Royal Mint's equivalent to the Mint Report for FY 2023-2024 it confirms that the total production was 15.8 million 50 Pence coins. Maybe there is demand for a coin of the new King.
https://www.royalmint.com/globalassets/__rebrand/_structure/about-us/annual-reports/reports/trm-annual-report-2023-24_digital_single-pages_p1.pdf
(See P. 24.)
If that First World country has almost no demand for new coinage, when will the demand for new U.S. circulation coinage also collapse? I'm an old coin fanatic, but I too have fallen for the ease of electronic payments. I may have received ten coins in change in the past six months.
Where does the metal come from for the US Mint production? I remember when they first started clad coinage, it was made via explosion welding and sheets were bought. Do they make their own now? or still buy it? If they are buying it, it might be best to move closer to that production site.
I'm not convinced that transportation costs or logistics of raw materials are a meaningful obstacle or expense in modern mint operations, other than at times silver planchets seem to be in limited supply. Still, I would not want the US government involved in mining, I think the private sector can do it better.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Don't forget that the Denver site is supposedly home to a significant portion of the nation's gold reserves.
It would cost a lot to build an new facility for it and relocate it.
I agree, which also applies to finished product. The original reasons for having multiple US Mint locations is no longer relevant.
Good question. In this environment, it would not surprise me.
43.85 million troy ounces. Roughly $130 Billion.
https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/reports-statements/gold-report/21-02.html
The new more efficient mint will be in Saltillo. And Mexico will pay for it.
Is minting money and printing bills a legitimate government function like police, fire, air traffic control, post office? Or should it be privatized or contracted out like the defense industry?
Take a look at Article I, Section 8, Clause 5 of the United States Constitution:
[The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and . . .
there was some amount of sarcasm you missed there