@1959 said:
If I put a dent in someone's car 10 years ago and didn't know it . Then they came to me and wanted me to pay for repairs , but the car is now an antique and the repair will cost a lot more than 10 years ago , I would only pay for when it was damaged .plus, you didn't lose 5000 dollars . You never had the money. It's just money you didn't gain . There's a difference.
Interesting take on your end and I can see what you're saying for sure.
A couple questions. I'm not even trying to argue but I'm trying to show you what I feel.
I owned a PSA 10 Alexander Ovechkin 2005 upper deck young guns card on 3.1.2025. If I asked you to help me value the card, what would you tell me it's worth as of that date?
If I were to sell the card at that time, what do you think that I could sell it for?
Do I have the ability with the situation that occurred to sell the card at that same price because of the damage to the card? What's the PSA 6 worth today?
The flaw in the reasoning is that when you make a claim of damage, it is based on when the damage occurred. Damage cannot appreciate in value. Just like you can't make a claim for future appreciation, it goes both ways. Now you do have present day psychological damages, but of course that is not a covered claim.
It's totally fine that legally there is not a valid claim for damages. That's laws, terms of service, and whatever a company can put out there. But I did lose $5000 because that is what the card was worth in the PSA 10 grade at the time. I can't recoup that amount now at all. I own a house. Let's say I bought that house in 2018 for $150 and in 2025 that house is now worth $5000. That house gets struck by a drunk semi truck driver and it gets run over and now it's worth $500. The drunk driver says, I see you paid $150 for your house so that's what I'll give you and you'll be whole. No loss, right? I'm not saying what you're saying isn't right by PSA terms. Look at the moral angle though and my perspective. If I caused damage to someone, I want to do what I can to make them whole as much as possible. How often am I filing claims? I have 100% feedback as an ebay seller after 25 years. I promote the hobby in the best way possible with my integrity. I sell PSA cards in my store and have spent thousands of dollars for grading services at PSA. $135 in compensation? Why even offer that? It's ridiculous. Let's say you bought a $100 lottery scratch off and it won $5000, and I grabbed it from you to look at it. I accidentally tore it in half when I snatched it from you and you couldn't cash out the ticket any more, you'd be ok with me giving you $500? I mean you're way ahead, right? Obviously these examples don't apply to PSA terms of services and all the legalese, but In the example is it really hard to see what could be done to make things more just? Is it that hard for PSA to think about little more about what happened instead of looking at words on a piece of paper? I'm asking for a little more critical thought. I'm a pharmacist (part'time) and I usually don't tell people about what I do. Do you know how often that I have to help patients find ways to get their medication and be able to buy food? How often that I think about what's best for the patient and not for the company? Do you know how many times I've paid for patient's medication? There's more to life than always thinking about the bottom line. Again, these are my choices in life. In this case, PSA had my card in 2018 and damaged the card resulting in my not being able to morally sell the card in the present for several thousand dollars. However, they still gave me the label of the card to sell for several thousand dollars. I refused to do that to another hobbyist. PSA says yes, we got your back for that. $135 is what we calculated. 🤷
@estang said:
FWIW, I also think it is inappropriate to call you names for "doing the right thing".
Everyone can feel different about the same situation & I applaud you for handling it the way you did.
If I'm being honest, I cannot say I would have done the same thing -- and that may make you a better person than I -- in this situation. So be it.
I appreciate that for sure. I'm not going to ever say that I'm a better person than anyone else. Everyone has different life experiences and they will make choices based on those views and thoughts. I will respect what anyone does unless it's malicious and harmful to others. This world is already messed up enough in so many ways. I want to do good things while I'm on the planet. Yea, this situation may have cost me a great deal of money but I still hope that I obtained some good karma. Thank you though for your kind thoughts. 🙏
@gameusedhoop said:
I wonder what would have happened if you had sold the 10 on ebay. It would have been sent to PSA for authentication before the buyer received it, would they have just passed it along to the buyer, or would they have deemed it no longer a 10 and sent it back? IF they had sent it to the buyer and and the buyer did not like it and sent it in for review would they have been compensated? Would you have been protected after PSA had passed it the 1st time. So many questions that will probably go without answers, but it really stinks for anyone involved in the situation.
If sold on eBay as a 10, it would likely have been rejected by the authenticator and returned with refund to the buyer. That's why the authentication process is there to protect people from receiving goods which are not as advertised.
Let's say I bought that house in 2018 for $150 and in 2025 that house is now worth $5000. That house gets struck by a drunk semi truck driver and it gets run over and now it's worth $500. The drunk driver says, I see you paid $150 for your house so that's what I'll give you and you'll be whole. No loss, right? I'm not saying what you're saying isn't right by PSA terms. Look at the moral angle though and my perspective. If I caused damage to someone, I want to do what I can to make them whole as much as possible.
I get what you are saying, but the examples aren't equal. If a drunk truck driver drives into your house TODAY, then the damages are based on today's value. If your friend ripped your $5000 lottery winner in half, it was worth $5000 when it was ripped in half. When PSA damaged your PSA 10 card, it was worth $300 (allegedly).
If you caused damage to someone, you'd try to make them as whole as possible based on WHEN you damaged them.
You basically want a reward for being a good/righteous/noble person, which is fine, but you still have to rationalize what is legitimately the damages. I guess what I am saying is a little less "crying wolf" and more requesting financial recognition for your actions. Yes, I didn't actually lose $5k, but it would be rational to grant it. It's all about tact...
@Yankees70 said:
So sorry this happened to you. One question and if you already discussed this I apologize. Was the card damaged before you received it back from PSA or sometime after you received it while you had it in storage?
No worries sir and no need to apologize at all. I'll answer any questions. I received the graded card from PSA back in apparently 2018 (PSA noted in the e-mail). I honestly didn't even know the card was damaged on the border. When I first submitted the card, I knew that it had a chance at a 10. I was super happy when I got the card back as a 10 and just put it back in the box and had left it there until now. I have hundreds of PSA graded cards just sitting in their "PSA" boxes from when the submissions were returned. I never looked at any card again after it came back except for a super low grade from my estimation. I only pulled out the card as Ovechkin was chasing the Goal record. I thought it was the appropriate time to sell. I only looked at the card more carefully as I was checking the PSA case for any scuffs or scratches. Buyers don't like those on cases I've learned.
That is a very hard lesson to learn, it will help others in the future to double and triple check their graded cards more often. I just cannot collect like this, I have to look at my better cards much more often. I hate the fact that I cannot display the best cards of my collection in one of my trophy cases like my memorabilia. Instead my 10 to 20 best cards have to be stored in a safe or safe deposit box.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Let's say I bought that house in 2018 for $150 and in 2025 that house is now worth $5000. That house gets struck by a drunk semi truck driver and it gets run over and now it's worth $500. The drunk driver says, I see you paid $150 for your house so that's what I'll give you and you'll be whole. No loss, right? I'm not saying what you're saying isn't right by PSA terms. Look at the moral angle though and my perspective. If I caused damage to someone, I want to do what I can to make them whole as much as possible.
I get what you are saying, but the examples aren't equal. If a drunk truck driver drives into your house TODAY, then the damages are based on today's value. If your friend ripped your $5000 lottery winner in half, it was worth $5000 when it was ripped in half. When PSA damaged your PSA 10 card, it was worth $300 (allegedly).
If you caused damage to someone, you'd try to make them as whole as possible based on WHEN you damaged them.
You basically want a reward for being a good/righteous/noble person, which is fine, but you still have to rationalize what is legitimately the damages. I guess what I am saying is a little less "crying wolf" and more requesting financial recognition for your actions. Yes, I didn't actually lose $5k, but it would be rational to grant it. It's all about tact...
How does one tactfully work with PSA to request financial recognition?
You suggested that I could have "sold" the card to a friend and then had the friend go to PSA for the guarantee and collect the money. Have the money and have the psa 6. Is that tact? 🤔 just curious if that's your angle.
@gameusedhoop said:
I wonder what would have happened if you had sold the 10 on ebay. It would have been sent to PSA for authentication before the buyer received it, would they have just passed it along to the buyer, or would they have deemed it no longer a 10 and sent it back? IF they had sent it to the buyer and and the buyer did not like it and sent it in for review would they have been compensated? Would you have been protected after PSA had passed it the 1st time. So many questions that will probably go without answers, but it really stinks for anyone involved in the situation.
If sold on eBay as a 10, it would likely have been rejected by the authenticator and returned with refund to the buyer. That's why the authentication process is there to protect people from receiving goods which are not as advertised.
@80sOPC I wouldn't argue against that possibility. My contention is that for a card at that level of value, a visibly detectable flaw would nullify the grade and it would "likely" not pass. However, it's not a perfect system. If the seller predicates the sale by providing a complete description of the card with photos and offers with a No Return policy, it could turn out differently. The buyer would then receive a slabbed card in a protective sealed sleeve with a sticker and there would be no argument regardless of the card's current condition, assuming the authenticator would approve it.
Let's say I bought that house in 2018 for $150 and in 2025 that house is now worth $5000. That house gets struck by a drunk semi truck driver and it gets run over and now it's worth $500. The drunk driver says, I see you paid $150 for your house so that's what I'll give you and you'll be whole. No loss, right? I'm not saying what you're saying isn't right by PSA terms. Look at the moral angle though and my perspective. If I caused damage to someone, I want to do what I can to make them whole as much as possible.
I get what you are saying, but the examples aren't equal. If a drunk truck driver drives into your house TODAY, then the damages are based on today's value. If your friend ripped your $5000 lottery winner in half, it was worth $5000 when it was ripped in half. When PSA damaged your PSA 10 card, it was worth $300 (allegedly).
If you caused damage to someone, you'd try to make them as whole as possible based on WHEN you damaged them.
You basically want a reward for being a good/righteous/noble person, which is fine, but you still have to rationalize what is legitimately the damages. I guess what I am saying is a little less "crying wolf" and more requesting financial recognition for your actions. Yes, I didn't actually lose $5k, but it would be rational to grant it. It's all about tact...
My analogy is more about backing a product or service, regardless of valuation or who was last to own it (timing). I think it's a valid analogy. The vast majority of cars do not appreciate after they are new and if they are resold to another owner, the product company still backs a promise/guarantee. It's completely a valid analogy.
IMHO, if the purpose of this interesting scenario is to find the balance of "doing the right thing" versus maximizing value vs. identifying accountability. I think the answer is you sell it "as is" and let the next person deal with the problem.
If I was in charge a PSA for putting together their policy, I wouldn't change it. I eluded to that in my earlier post. The workaround for them to back their guarantee is it needed to be resold to another individual for them to pay the $5,000. It makes both consumers whole while applying the blame to the correct party. Is that the most ethical solution - it's subjective.
How does one tactfully work with PSA to request financial recognition?
I wasn't necessarily saying tact with PSA, but with the general population that you are "preaching" too. But I guess it could be to PSA as well, though not sure in what way. In the end you want good will, not damages as damages have significantly less value.
You suggested that I could have "sold" the card to a friend and then had the friend go to PSA for the guarantee and collect the money. Have the money and have the psa 6. Is that tact? 🤔 just curious if that's your angle.
You are juxtaposing many different posts and "angles" into one. My suggestion of using a friend or just selling it and playing dumb was not tact, it was a strategy, or angle if you will to satisfy the terms and conditions of the guarantee as set forth by PSA. And didn't think of it as you getting the PSA 6 too (in my mind it is worth zero in this whole equation)
Tact is for the way you stress you want to be recognized as a hobby hero and rewarded/paid out based on that. Instead, I almost feel like you tried claiming a cash reward for leading the FBI to a fugitive, but you ended up turning yourself in as the fugitive! (random analogy, I know)
@gameusedhoop said:
I wonder what would have happened if you had sold the 10 on ebay. It would have been sent to PSA for authentication before the buyer received it, would they have just passed it along to the buyer, or would they have deemed it no longer a 10 and sent it back? IF they had sent it to the buyer and and the buyer did not like it and sent it in for review would they have been compensated? Would you have been protected after PSA had passed it the 1st time. So many questions that will probably go without answers, but it really stinks for anyone involved in the situation.
If sold on eBay as a 10, it would likely have been rejected by the authenticator and returned with refund to the buyer. That's why the authentication process is there to protect people from receiving goods which are not as advertised.
I'm not sure that's right. The authenticator is checking the authenticity of the cert number and the case itself for tampering, and also the listing for discrepancies. I don't believe they make a judgement on the accuracy of the grade given to a card. They're not reviewing the grade.
If the case says its a 10 and the cert database says its a 10 and the ebay listing says its a 10 and properly listed, then it should pass authentication. That's my understanding.
How does one tactfully work with PSA to request financial recognition?
I wasn't necessarily saying tact with PSA, but with the general population that you are "preaching" too. But I guess it could be to PSA as well, though not sure in what way. In the end you want good will, not damages as damages have significantly less value.
You suggested that I could have "sold" the card to a friend and then had the friend go to PSA for the guarantee and collect the money. Have the money and have the psa 6. Is that tact? 🤔 just curious if that's your angle.
You are juxtaposing many different posts and "angles" into one. My suggestion of using a friend or just selling it and playing dumb was not tact, it was a strategy, or angle if you will to satisfy the terms and conditions of the guarantee as set forth by PSA. And didn't think of it as you getting the PSA 6 too (in my mind it is worth zero in this whole equation)
Tact is for the way you stress you want to be recognized as a hobby hero and rewarded/paid out based on that. Instead, I almost feel like you tried claiming a cash reward for leading the FBI to a fugitive, but you ended up turning yourself in as the fugitive! (random analogy, I know)
I’d warn against using a true friend - their terms imply that they can void the claim if they detect a relationship between claimant and original submitter:
@gameusedhoop said:
I wonder what would have happened if you had sold the 10 on ebay. It would have been sent to PSA for authentication before the buyer received it, would they have just passed it along to the buyer, or would they have deemed it no longer a 10 and sent it back? IF they had sent it to the buyer and and the buyer did not like it and sent it in for review would they have been compensated? Would you have been protected after PSA had passed it the 1st time. So many questions that will probably go without answers, but it really stinks for anyone involved in the situation.
If sold on eBay as a 10, it would likely have been rejected by the authenticator and returned with refund to the buyer. That's why the authentication process is there to protect people from receiving goods which are not as advertised.
I'm not sure that's right. The authenticator is checking the authenticity of the cert number and the case itself for tampering, and also the listing for discrepancies. I don't believe they make a judgement on the accuracy of the grade given to a card. They're not reviewing the grade.
If the case says its a 10 and the cert database says its a 10 and the ebay listing says its a 10 and properly listed, then it should pass authentication. That's my understanding.
And I wouldn't argue with this assessment assuming the structure of process is used. However.....you mentioned checking the listing for discrepancies. This is where I believe an authenticator acting on behalf of the buyer and PSA would identify a problem with a card, particularly at the 5K+ level and potentially reject the sale because of the aforementioned damage. They are there to protect the buyers best interests. If the damage wasn't actually shown on the listing, that could play a role as well. I think that a perfectly accurate description of the card as a PSA 10 would lessen the chance of losing a big transaction. Just my opinion.
Here's an example of what could be inherently bad about allowing a PSA card to be sold as graded even though it's WRONG. This 1973 Topps Jack Youngblood PSA 9 Rookie card is a tough grab. They don't come up for sale very often. Regrettably, this card has a water stain at the bottom which is quite visible to me. I would have bid on this card, but now, no way. It's a lie. I hope that the authenticator rejects it if it gets that far.
How does one tactfully work with PSA to request financial recognition?
I wasn't necessarily saying tact with PSA, but with the general population that you are "preaching" too. But I guess it could be to PSA as well, though not sure in what way. In the end you want good will, not damages as damages have significantly less value.
You suggested that I could have "sold" the card to a friend and then had the friend go to PSA for the guarantee and collect the money. Have the money and have the psa 6. Is that tact? 🤔 just curious if that's your angle.
You are juxtaposing many different posts and "angles" into one. My suggestion of using a friend or just selling it and playing dumb was not tact, it was a strategy, or angle if you will to satisfy the terms and conditions of the guarantee as set forth by PSA. And didn't think of it as you getting the PSA 6 too (in my mind it is worth zero in this whole equation)
Tact is for the way you stress you want to be recognized as a hobby hero and rewarded/paid out based on that. Instead, I almost feel like you tried claiming a cash reward for leading the FBI to a fugitive, but you ended up turning yourself in as the fugitive! (random analogy, I know)
I really do appreciate your input and have absolutely no problem with anything that you've offered. Except for calling me an idiot. 🤷 I am not trying to be a hobby hero at all but I want to stress that I feel like I did the correct thing morally. I've said all this to PSA. So it's not like I'm coming on here and saying one thing and then saying anything different to PSA.
In any case, I've earned a call with a PSA representative next week to discuss my situation. I'm not sure what will come of it. But all the angles and opinions that have been mentioned among all the responses helps me let PSA know the thought processes of many views. That's why I stated that I don't have an agenda or trying to create a narrative. I wanted to know what everyone thinks. Maybe PSA will stand by their offer or maybe they will see how their company will be seen if I go the social media route.
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Here's an example of what could be inherently bad about allowing a PSA card to be sold as graded even though it's WRONG. This 1973 Topps Jack Youngblood PSA 9 Rookie card is a tough grab. They don't come up for sale very often. Regrettably, this card has a water stain at the bottom which is quite visible to me. I would have bid on this card, but now, no way. It's a lie. I hope that the authenticator rejects it if it gets that far.
This is the type of situation that I didn't want to be part of. It feels wrong to me personally but I wouldn't blame the seller either for selling the card as is. This is a very fine line to talk. But for me, if PSA wants the responsibility to evaluate cards, they should be accountable for obvious situations like this. They get compensated very well for their services.
How does one tactfully work with PSA to request financial recognition?
I wasn't necessarily saying tact with PSA, but with the general population that you are "preaching" too. But I guess it could be to PSA as well, though not sure in what way. In the end you want good will, not damages as damages have significantly less value.
You suggested that I could have "sold" the card to a friend and then had the friend go to PSA for the guarantee and collect the money. Have the money and have the psa 6. Is that tact? 🤔 just curious if that's your angle.
You are juxtaposing many different posts and "angles" into one. My suggestion of using a friend or just selling it and playing dumb was not tact, it was a strategy, or angle if you will to satisfy the terms and conditions of the guarantee as set forth by PSA. And didn't think of it as you getting the PSA 6 too (in my mind it is worth zero in this whole equation)
Tact is for the way you stress you want to be recognized as a hobby hero and rewarded/paid out based on that. Instead, I almost feel like you tried claiming a cash reward for leading the FBI to a fugitive, but you ended up turning yourself in as the fugitive! (random analogy, I know)
I’d warn against using a true friend - their terms imply that they can void the claim if they detect a relationship between claimant and original submitter:
I was not ever going to go that route, but there are ways that it could be done of course. I have made sales to various folks over the years in all parts of the country.
In any case, PSA has informed me that they would like to schedule a call to discuss things. I don't know what that really means but maybe some good will come of it for both PSA and I.
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Here's an example of what could be inherently bad about allowing a PSA card to be sold as graded even though it's WRONG. This 1973 Topps Jack Youngblood PSA 9 Rookie card is a tough grab. They don't come up for sale very often. Regrettably, this card has a water stain at the bottom which is quite visible to me. I would have bid on this card, but now, no way. It's a lie. I hope that the authenticator rejects it if it gets that far.
This is the type of situation that I didn't want to be part of. It feels wrong to me personally but I wouldn't blame the seller either for selling the card as is. This is a very fine line to talk. But for me, if PSA wants the responsibility to evaluate cards, they should be accountable for obvious situations like this. They get compensated very well for their services.
I wish you well when you talk to the rep. I hope for a positive response on your behalf.
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Here's an example of what could be inherently bad about allowing a PSA card to be sold as graded even though it's WRONG. This 1973 Topps Jack Youngblood PSA 9 Rookie card is a tough grab. They don't come up for sale very often. Regrettably, this card has a water stain at the bottom which is quite visible to me. I would have bid on this card, but now, no way. It's a lie. I hope that the authenticator rejects it if it gets that far.
This is the type of situation that I didn't want to be part of. It feels wrong to me personally but I wouldn't blame the seller either for selling the card as is. This is a very fine line to talk. But for me, if PSA wants the responsibility to evaluate cards, they should be accountable for obvious situations like this. They get compensated very well for their services.
I wish you well when you talk to the rep. I hope for a positive response on your behalf.
I appreciate that very much and let's see how it goes. I got a various number of opinions and thoughts from various members. It will all help me put together some thoughts. This isn't about taking PSA down. Stuff happens but I could not accept that little compensation for something that wasn't my fault at all.
Again, thank you for taking the time to offer your views!
I didn't want to divert too far from the original intent of this thread. But, it seems that based on information provided here, PSA needs to find a method of taking greater accountability for errors they make. The cards being allowed to enter the marketplace with such flaws might upset the actual holders of legitimately graded cards if the values go down.
I didn't want to divert too far from the original intent of this thread. But, it seems that based on information provided here, PSA needs to find a method of taking greater accountability for errors they make. The cards being allowed to enter the marketplace with such flaws might upset the actual holders of legitimately graded cards if the values go down.
This hits the nail on the head for me. I actually don't want to sell these types of cards and put them in the wild to be criticized. I think It's an embarrassing situation for PSA when stuff like this happens. Since I do own hundreds of PSA cards, it's in my best interest to protect PSA from embarrassment and ridicule. If the company doesn't have character or integrity, then what value will they have in the long run. I think PSA has had enough scandal and moments for hobbyists to question the value of PSA. But they turn around and want to shaft me on the back end. Doesn't make sense to me.
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Here's an example of what could be inherently bad about allowing a PSA card to be sold as graded even though it's WRONG. This 1973 Topps Jack Youngblood PSA 9 Rookie card is a tough grab. They don't come up for sale very often. Regrettably, this card has a water stain at the bottom which is quite visible to me. I would have bid on this card, but now, no way. It's a lie. I hope that the authenticator rejects it if it gets that far.
I didn't want to divert too far from the original intent of this thread. But, it seems that based on information provided here, PSA needs to find a method of taking greater accountability for errors they make. The cards being allowed to enter the marketplace with such flaws might upset the actual holders of legitimately graded cards if the values go down.
This hits the nail on the head for me. I actually don't want to sell these types of cards and put them in the wild to be criticized. I think It's an embarrassing situation for PSA when stuff like this happens. Since I do own hundreds of PSA cards, it's in my best interest to protect PSA from embarrassment and ridicule. If the company doesn't have character or integrity, then what value will they have in the long run. I think PSA has had enough scandal and moments for hobbyists to question the value of PSA. But they turn around and want to shaft me on the back end. Doesn't make sense to me.
'cept, seems as if they only want to protect their very short term balance sheet.
PSA needs to be BETTER than a firm like CGC not nearly as bad!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
And I wouldn't argue with this assessment assuming the structure of process is used. However.....you mentioned checking the listing for discrepancies. This is where I believe an authenticator acting on behalf of the buyer and PSA would identify a problem with a card, particularly at the 5K+ level and potentially reject the sale because of the aforementioned damage. They are there to protect the buyers best interests. If the damage wasn't actually shown on the listing, that could play a role as well. I think that a perfectly accurate description of the card as a PSA 10 would lessen the chance of losing a big transaction. Just my opinion.
I think this has some slippery aspects since PSA is the one running the eBay Authentication. Is it being handled by card graders. Are they instructed to identify improperly graded items and then report the cert# for deactivation and in this instance do they still return the "erroneously graded" slab back to the seller as a rejection and then this slab is still in the wild. Is this slab hijacked by PSA, which would seem like "theft" as I am not sure the eBay Authentication terms state the PSA can pull a mis-graded card and hold it hostage/reholder it downwards. I feel from a legal standpoint, only making sure the slab is real and not tampered, and that the flip is real/matches the listing sold is the only thing that matters and is checked. They can't do that with non-psa slabs that come through the program...
PSA and I came to a resolution this afternoon that I'm very satisfied with. I had a very positive experience with their customer service and the gentleman that I spoke with represented PSA with a high level of character and empathy. I appreciate how the situation was handled by PSA after they got a better view of what I was trying to accomplish from the decision that I made. I'm actually very impressed and didn't expect the final resolution to be so smooth. I've got some final steps to finish up, so hopefully that part is as smooth.
I appreciate everyone that responded on the thread. Your views and insight allowed me to have a better understanding on how to approach the situation. 🙏👍
@pengvin67 said:
PSA and I came to a resolution this afternoon that I'm very satisfied with. I had a very positive experience with their customer service and the gentleman that I spoke with represented PSA with a high level of character and empathy. I appreciate how the situation was handled by PSA after they got a better view of what I was trying to accomplish from the decision that I made. I'm actually very impressed and didn't expect the final resolution to be so smooth. I've got some final steps to finish up, so hopefully that part is as smooth.
I appreciate everyone that responded on the thread. Your views and insight allowed me to have a better understanding on how to approach the situation. 🙏👍
Excellent news! Happy to hear they are doing the right thing by you and working things out.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Glad to hear it was resolved! I'd love some details, but totally understand if sharing them are not possible.
It'll be crickets. OP comes on ranting and raving about doing the right thing for the good of the hobby being very specific about $$ and being slapped in the face...... But will we ever know the acceptable outcome? Good to know that f-up, move-up & squeaky wheel gets the grease still exists... Congrats, nicely played.
good karma Buddha! form is emptiness, emptiness is form. I had a bad rim on a Palladium Eagle once that really bugged me. JMB refused purchase after I described over phone: "Sir, we do NOT buy damaged coins". Later Palladium skyrocketed and I sold that $1060 coin for $2700-ish to JMBullion as 'varied condition'. Payed all my taxes on the profits and I rest easily.
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It's totally fine that legally there is not a valid claim for damages. That's laws, terms of service, and whatever a company can put out there. But I did lose $5000 because that is what the card was worth in the PSA 10 grade at the time. I can't recoup that amount now at all. I own a house. Let's say I bought that house in 2018 for $150 and in 2025 that house is now worth $5000. That house gets struck by a drunk semi truck driver and it gets run over and now it's worth $500. The drunk driver says, I see you paid $150 for your house so that's what I'll give you and you'll be whole. No loss, right? I'm not saying what you're saying isn't right by PSA terms. Look at the moral angle though and my perspective. If I caused damage to someone, I want to do what I can to make them whole as much as possible. How often am I filing claims? I have 100% feedback as an ebay seller after 25 years. I promote the hobby in the best way possible with my integrity. I sell PSA cards in my store and have spent thousands of dollars for grading services at PSA. $135 in compensation? Why even offer that? It's ridiculous. Let's say you bought a $100 lottery scratch off and it won $5000, and I grabbed it from you to look at it. I accidentally tore it in half when I snatched it from you and you couldn't cash out the ticket any more, you'd be ok with me giving you $500? I mean you're way ahead, right? Obviously these examples don't apply to PSA terms of services and all the legalese, but In the example is it really hard to see what could be done to make things more just? Is it that hard for PSA to think about little more about what happened instead of looking at words on a piece of paper? I'm asking for a little more critical thought. I'm a pharmacist (part'time) and I usually don't tell people about what I do. Do you know how often that I have to help patients find ways to get their medication and be able to buy food? How often that I think about what's best for the patient and not for the company? Do you know how many times I've paid for patient's medication? There's more to life than always thinking about the bottom line. Again, these are my choices in life. In this case, PSA had my card in 2018 and damaged the card resulting in my not being able to morally sell the card in the present for several thousand dollars. However, they still gave me the label of the card to sell for several thousand dollars. I refused to do that to another hobbyist. PSA says yes, we got your back for that. $135 is what we calculated. 🤷
I appreciate that for sure. I'm not going to ever say that I'm a better person than anyone else. Everyone has different life experiences and they will make choices based on those views and thoughts. I will respect what anyone does unless it's malicious and harmful to others. This world is already messed up enough in so many ways. I want to do good things while I'm on the planet. Yea, this situation may have cost me a great deal of money but I still hope that I obtained some good karma. Thank you though for your kind thoughts. 🙏
It would have passed, it is in a PSA slab as a 10 and the slab isn’t compromised. They aren’t regrading, just authenticating.
Imagine if they kicked back every overgraded card lol
I get what you are saying, but the examples aren't equal. If a drunk truck driver drives into your house TODAY, then the damages are based on today's value. If your friend ripped your $5000 lottery winner in half, it was worth $5000 when it was ripped in half. When PSA damaged your PSA 10 card, it was worth $300 (allegedly).
If you caused damage to someone, you'd try to make them as whole as possible based on WHEN you damaged them.
You basically want a reward for being a good/righteous/noble person, which is fine, but you still have to rationalize what is legitimately the damages. I guess what I am saying is a little less "crying wolf" and more requesting financial recognition for your actions. Yes, I didn't actually lose $5k, but it would be rational to grant it. It's all about tact...
That is a very hard lesson to learn, it will help others in the future to double and triple check their graded cards more often. I just cannot collect like this, I have to look at my better cards much more often. I hate the fact that I cannot display the best cards of my collection in one of my trophy cases like my memorabilia. Instead my 10 to 20 best cards have to be stored in a safe or safe deposit box.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
How does one tactfully work with PSA to request financial recognition?
You suggested that I could have "sold" the card to a friend and then had the friend go to PSA for the guarantee and collect the money. Have the money and have the psa 6. Is that tact? 🤔 just curious if that's your angle.
@80sOPC I wouldn't argue against that possibility. My contention is that for a card at that level of value, a visibly detectable flaw would nullify the grade and it would "likely" not pass. However, it's not a perfect system. If the seller predicates the sale by providing a complete description of the card with photos and offers with a No Return policy, it could turn out differently. The buyer would then receive a slabbed card in a protective sealed sleeve with a sticker and there would be no argument regardless of the card's current condition, assuming the authenticator would approve it.
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My analogy is more about backing a product or service, regardless of valuation or who was last to own it (timing). I think it's a valid analogy. The vast majority of cars do not appreciate after they are new and if they are resold to another owner, the product company still backs a promise/guarantee. It's completely a valid analogy.
IMHO, if the purpose of this interesting scenario is to find the balance of "doing the right thing" versus maximizing value vs. identifying accountability. I think the answer is you sell it "as is" and let the next person deal with the problem.
If I was in charge a PSA for putting together their policy, I wouldn't change it. I eluded to that in my earlier post. The workaround for them to back their guarantee is it needed to be resold to another individual for them to pay the $5,000. It makes both consumers whole while applying the blame to the correct party. Is that the most ethical solution - it's subjective.
Erik
I wasn't necessarily saying tact with PSA, but with the general population that you are "preaching" too. But I guess it could be to PSA as well, though not sure in what way. In the end you want good will, not damages as damages have significantly less value.
You are juxtaposing many different posts and "angles" into one. My suggestion of using a friend or just selling it and playing dumb was not tact, it was a strategy, or angle if you will to satisfy the terms and conditions of the guarantee as set forth by PSA. And didn't think of it as you getting the PSA 6 too (in my mind it is worth zero in this whole equation)
Tact is for the way you stress you want to be recognized as a hobby hero and rewarded/paid out based on that. Instead, I almost feel like you tried claiming a cash reward for leading the FBI to a fugitive, but you ended up turning yourself in as the fugitive! (random analogy, I know)
I'm not sure that's right. The authenticator is checking the authenticity of the cert number and the case itself for tampering, and also the listing for discrepancies. I don't believe they make a judgement on the accuracy of the grade given to a card. They're not reviewing the grade.
If the case says its a 10 and the cert database says its a 10 and the ebay listing says its a 10 and properly listed, then it should pass authentication. That's my understanding.
I’d warn against using a true friend - their terms imply that they can void the claim if they detect a relationship between claimant and original submitter:
Jim
And I wouldn't argue with this assessment assuming the structure of process is used. However.....you mentioned checking the listing for discrepancies. This is where I believe an authenticator acting on behalf of the buyer and PSA would identify a problem with a card, particularly at the 5K+ level and potentially reject the sale because of the aforementioned damage. They are there to protect the buyers best interests. If the damage wasn't actually shown on the listing, that could play a role as well. I think that a perfectly accurate description of the card as a PSA 10 would lessen the chance of losing a big transaction. Just my opinion.
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Here's an example of what could be inherently bad about allowing a PSA card to be sold as graded even though it's WRONG. This 1973 Topps Jack Youngblood PSA 9 Rookie card is a tough grab. They don't come up for sale very often. Regrettably, this card has a water stain at the bottom which is quite visible to me. I would have bid on this card, but now, no way. It's a lie. I hope that the authenticator rejects it if it gets that far.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/167365998013
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I really do appreciate your input and have absolutely no problem with anything that you've offered. Except for calling me an idiot. 🤷 I am not trying to be a hobby hero at all but I want to stress that I feel like I did the correct thing morally. I've said all this to PSA. So it's not like I'm coming on here and saying one thing and then saying anything different to PSA.
In any case, I've earned a call with a PSA representative next week to discuss my situation. I'm not sure what will come of it. But all the angles and opinions that have been mentioned among all the responses helps me let PSA know the thought processes of many views. That's why I stated that I don't have an agenda or trying to create a narrative. I wanted to know what everyone thinks. Maybe PSA will stand by their offer or maybe they will see how their company will be seen if I go the social media route.
This is the type of situation that I didn't want to be part of. It feels wrong to me personally but I wouldn't blame the seller either for selling the card as is. This is a very fine line to talk. But for me, if PSA wants the responsibility to evaluate cards, they should be accountable for obvious situations like this. They get compensated very well for their services.
I was not ever going to go that route, but there are ways that it could be done of course. I have made sales to various folks over the years in all parts of the country.
In any case, PSA has informed me that they would like to schedule a call to discuss things. I don't know what that really means but maybe some good will come of it for both PSA and I.
I wish you well when you talk to the rep. I hope for a positive response on your behalf.
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I appreciate that very much and let's see how it goes. I got a various number of opinions and thoughts from various members. It will all help me put together some thoughts. This isn't about taking PSA down. Stuff happens but I could not accept that little compensation for something that wasn't my fault at all.
Again, thank you for taking the time to offer your views!
Here is the actual PSA scan of the Youngblood card, notice how high the brightness is turned up much higher than any of their other scans....
Here is another PSA scan from the same set....
That's.....odd.
I didn't want to divert too far from the original intent of this thread. But, it seems that based on information provided here, PSA needs to find a method of taking greater accountability for errors they make. The cards being allowed to enter the marketplace with such flaws might upset the actual holders of legitimately graded cards if the values go down.
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This hits the nail on the head for me. I actually don't want to sell these types of cards and put them in the wild to be criticized. I think It's an embarrassing situation for PSA when stuff like this happens. Since I do own hundreds of PSA cards, it's in my best interest to protect PSA from embarrassment and ridicule. If the company doesn't have character or integrity, then what value will they have in the long run. I think PSA has had enough scandal and moments for hobbyists to question the value of PSA. But they turn around and want to shaft me on the back end. Doesn't make sense to me.
yowtch that's bad
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
'cept, seems as if they only want to protect their very short term balance sheet.
PSA needs to be BETTER than a firm like CGC not nearly as bad!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I think this has some slippery aspects since PSA is the one running the eBay Authentication. Is it being handled by card graders. Are they instructed to identify improperly graded items and then report the cert# for deactivation and in this instance do they still return the "erroneously graded" slab back to the seller as a rejection and then this slab is still in the wild. Is this slab hijacked by PSA, which would seem like "theft" as I am not sure the eBay Authentication terms state the PSA can pull a mis-graded card and hold it hostage/reholder it downwards. I feel from a legal standpoint, only making sure the slab is real and not tampered, and that the flip is real/matches the listing sold is the only thing that matters and is checked. They can't do that with non-psa slabs that come through the program...
PSA and I came to a resolution this afternoon that I'm very satisfied with. I had a very positive experience with their customer service and the gentleman that I spoke with represented PSA with a high level of character and empathy. I appreciate how the situation was handled by PSA after they got a better view of what I was trying to accomplish from the decision that I made. I'm actually very impressed and didn't expect the final resolution to be so smooth. I've got some final steps to finish up, so hopefully that part is as smooth.
I appreciate everyone that responded on the thread. Your views and insight allowed me to have a better understanding on how to approach the situation. 🙏👍
I am happy it turned out well for you!
Thanks so much! Feels nice to have it behind me. I'm still sad that I don't have a psa 10 but what can I do? 🤷
Congrats on an acceptable outcome!!
Jim
Excellent news! Happy to hear they are doing the right thing by you and working things out.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Great to hear, and even better to see it was a positive experience.
Nice. Happy ending.
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I am glad this eventually worked out to your satisfaction.
Thanks again everyone! I am appreciative of this forum to have been able to voice my situation. Takes a village...🙏
pengvin, you have a great outlook and an uncanny ability to stay calm, well done.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Glad to hear this. Thread started with you being called an idiot and ended with a positive resolution. It's just cardboard folks
Appears that any involved in selling Trading Cards that display honor are called idiots
Glad to hear it was resolved! I'd love some details, but totally understand if sharing them are not possible.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Well it's like my Papi used to say
No good deed goes unpunished
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
It'll be crickets. OP comes on ranting and raving about doing the right thing for the good of the hobby being very specific about $$ and being slapped in the face...... But will we ever know the acceptable outcome? Good to know that f-up, move-up & squeaky wheel gets the grease still exists... Congrats, nicely played.
good karma Buddha! form is emptiness, emptiness is form. I had a bad rim on a Palladium Eagle once that really bugged me. JMB refused purchase after I described over phone: "Sir, we do NOT buy damaged coins". Later Palladium skyrocketed and I sold that $1060 coin for $2700-ish to JMBullion as 'varied condition'. Payed all my taxes on the profits and I rest easily.
^ apologies, but huh?
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Cain we get a picture of the card in question?
This reads like one of those settlements that read "terms of the settlement were not disclosed. There was no admission of any wrongdoing."
See Probstein's next auction...
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/