My recent crack and cross results for 1 Marks
neildrobertson
Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
I try to be holder agnostic when it comes to buying coins, so I'll end up with a fair few NGC coins. I am slowly working on a 1 Mark registry set, so I decided to crack and cross a batch of NGC 1 Marks to fill holes in the set. These coins were not selected for quality or upgrade potential. The hope is that this could possibly useful info for people.
1875-C German Empire 1 Mark - PCGS MS64, ex-NGC MS64.
1909-E German Empire 1 Mark - PCGS MS62, ex-NGC MS62, the significant dulling on the high points made me wonder if PCGS would go AU58 on this one.
1899-J German Empire 1 Mark - PCGS MS63, ex-NGC MS64, I agree with PCGS on this one and was disappointed after buying the coin in the NGC holder.
As a matter of policy, I don't return holdered coins unless there is a significant problem.
1899-F German Empire 1 Mark - PCGS MS66, ex-NGC MS66
1874-A German Empire 2 Pfennig - PCGS MS65, ex-NGC MS66. This coin absolutely has the luster, strike, and look of a 66, which made me think 66 is possible at PCGS. But there are enough marks/bagmarks to hold it to 65.
1905-G German Empire 1 Mark - PCGS MS62, ex-NGC MS62. High point rub made me think 58 was possible, but it seems UNC in hand.
1916-F German Empire 1 Mark - PCGS MS64, ex-NGC MS65. This coin was a disappointment at 65. I think 64 suits it better.
1908-D German Empire 1 Mark - PCGS MS66, ex-NGC MS66
1881-D German Empire 1 Mark, PCGS UNC Cleaned, ex-NGC MS62, fair result here
1914-D German Empire 5 Pfennig, PCGS MS66, ex-NGC MS67, significantly nicer than my other MS66 5 Pfennig.
8 of the 10 were current gen NGC holders. I got 5 downgrades and 5 side-grades, with 10 in all. My working understanding over the past couple of years is that NGC is a little less likely to call something cleaned (maybe correctly, maybe incorrectly) and NGC is a little more willing to give grades 65 and up. My recent results are consistent with that understanding. When it comes to German coins, NGC holders tend to sell for as much as PCGS holders, so my bias will be to favor PCGS with all else being equal.
Bonus raw submission:
1903-G German Empire 1 Mark, PCGS MS67, lone top pop. An auction win from last year that I sent in with the others. I felt insane bidding on it because I went over my budget. It feels nice to be a little vindicated on the one coin I pushed myself, pricewise, to get.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Comments
Well done. You have a good eye and the results show it.
Life member #369 of the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association
Member of Canadian Association of Token Collectors
Collector of:
Canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens
Darkside proof/mint sets dated 1960
My Ebay
Nice results. It is not as easy as it may look when it comes to grading this denomination. Some very tough coins… if I recall correctly, the 1903 G has a fairly low mintage as does the 1909E.
I have issues just trying to handicap the surviving population and then to contemplate condition rarity on top of that which remains a challenge. I do enjoy looking for eye appealing examples to submit to our host.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The 1909E is low mintage and considered a semi-key. As a result, it's much easier to find than 90% of the dates. I think the 1909-S VDB cent is the same. Because it's recognized as rare, they tend to float to the top. 1903-G is technically not as rare but is much more difficult to find in nice condition, pricing aside.
There are 179 pieces in the complete Empire 1 Mark set. Many are seldom seen, which has made me take a little bit of a beggar approach rather than a chooser approach.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Good luck in the pursuit of a complete set. And it is the 1902 G that has the lower mintage… not the 1903 G.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Neil,
A question for you? Where do you get the 179 number? I show 73 for the small eagle and 119 for the large eagle for a total of 192. The same that PCGS shows.
I appreciate you publishing your crossover results. I have a few NGC older slabs to cross at some point. This is a very difficult set and I have been working on it for 20 years, very hard the past 10 years.
With regards to your really nice 1874A 2 Pfg, PCGS has never grade a 2 Pfg above 65, and only 31 coins in 65 for both the small and large eagle combined. I think I have submitted 6 over the years. My most resent one was a1875F which only got a 65RB.
Really like the 1903G!!
Regards,
John
Thanks for posting this. Interesting to see the results and very nice coins too.
Regarding 179 vs 192: I was going from memory and just misremembered the total number. I did not look it up. Thank you for the correction!
Both the 1 Pfennig and 2 Pfennig are tough in MS66, even though the 1 Pfennigs have seen more 66s in the pop report. This was my first attempt at something better than 65 and I was willing to attempt it because I knew the coin would become my type piece regardless of how it graded. The same is true for the 5 Pfennig that went 66. I will have to still keep my eye out for that elusive MS66 2 Pfennig.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Thanks for the clarification on the 179!
The 1 Pfg is very tough as well. There was a partial roll/group of 1889G small eagle Pfgs that that got slabbed about 6-7 years ago. Beautiful blue toning. I was lucky to get some. Of the 31 PCGS 66 1 Pfgs both small and large eagle 10 of the 31 are the 1889G coins and all the 66+, 67 and 67+ coins for the small and large eagle are also the 1889G coins. Never seen anything like it since.
I am on the lookout for that 66 as well!
@johnjohn10
Depending on the timing and age of the NGC slabs, they possibly could be more desirable as they currently are. However, if the goal is completing a PCGS registry set, that would be different.
Good luck in your quest for a complete set. I enjoy reading/hearing about the progress of other collectors in sets that I share an interest. I try and find one mark coins worthy to submit and it is a challenge.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The 1 Pfennig large eagles have a popular date in 1916-D where there are a handful of MS66 and MS65s. I have one in MS65 and it is a rough date. Most of the coins arenot well struck, have die clashes, and don't appear to be on particularly fresh dies. A MS65 of a better made date would almost certainly be better than the MS66s.
The 1889Gs appeared to have been graded and sold by Ron Guth, if I remember right. I know I bought mine from him. The 1889Gs are better in that they have nice surfaces and toned well. Most I've seen still are not perfect strikes, have die clashes, di wear and have die cracks. They are not perfect but are much much more attractive coins than the 1916Ds. I wasn't willing to go big when I was the MS67 for sale because of the minor issues I described. But the proof is in the pudding. I haven't seen a nicer batch of 1 Pfennigs in the past couple of years.
There has been a trend of some of these Empire coins appearing in groups over the years. I can remember a handful off the top of my head. Ron Guth had a roll of 1914-A 1 Marks that got graded and sold 10-12 years ago. I bought mine from that batch. HA sold a long run of 1914-D 1 Marks they sold incrementally over the past few years, same with 1916-D 1/2 Marks. Greg Margulies has been slowly selling 1906-A 1 Pfennig coins for over 10 years now. There was an 1874G 20 Pfennig partial roll that sold a year or two ago that has been surfacing piecewise since then. The market is shallow enough on even the common dates for most of these coins that a single roll will substantially depress prices for a couple of years for that particular date.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Yes, Ron had that group. I see some of the 1906A Pfg pop up from time to time.
I bought a 2-3 of Ron's slabbed 1914A MK and a few years later another roll of 1914A showed up in Germany. I bought a dozen of the coins and the dealer gave me the remnants of the original paper roll they came in. I slabbed them all with PCGS and the grades were 67-1, 67+-3 and 68-8. Did not get one of the 68+ coins. The roll was printed with "K.B. General-Militar-Kasse" on the outside of the roll. Seems the mint/bank put the coins in special paper rolls to be sent to the paymaster to pay the troops.
I know the 1874G 20 Pfg coins very well. It was about a 2/3 roll and the other coins were removed many years prior since it had a very old red wax seal on the open end of the roll. I picked out six of the coins after the dealer had already pulled 2-3. The grades are were 67-4 66-2. He sold the balance of the roll off with the paper/wax seal. They were ALL nice.
Biggest issue I have is when I see something, that I know I will never see again, I buy too many!!! Don't tell my wife!
I have had no luck finding the 1 & 2 Pfg coins that are submission worthy. I have submitted a 1901 E 1pfg that graded 65 Brown to our host and no 2 pfg coins ever. The 1/2 M & 1 M coins present a big enough challenge as it is. I wonder if PCGS would consider a smaller type set for the 1 M along the lines of obtaining an example from each mint for both the large and small Eagle design. Seems that would be manageable but would still be a challenge.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.