Toner Premiums remain strong (a Morgan primer via GC)

U1chicago · February 24, 2025 7:50PM

Any speculation of toner premiums going to zero are premature-at least from my vantage point (reference to recent thread where this was discussed).
This past Sunday featured some nice toned Morgans that I was following. While I was hoping for some "deals" in my favor, it was not destined to happen. In fact, several coins sold higher than their previous auction appearance. Some were only marginally higher and likely led to a small loss to the seller when considering fees. However, they still cost the new buyer more (and a significant premium over guide). Below I will cover six of the better coins that I was following.

1) We start with this 1881-S; it is a gem (65) with nice rainbow colors. The coverage isn't complete enough to consider it a monster but it is a strong coin. Bidders thought so too and took it to 1,800 (with the fee). This coin had sold a whopping four times previously in the 2017 to 2024 time period. The low point was a Legend 2019 sale at $852 and the high was $1,560 at Heritage in November 2024. The GC result was higher than all of those. It does not appear that a lack of "freshness" impacted the bidders.

Result vs Guide (using PCGS guide as of 2.24.25): 1,800 vs 185 (9.7x premium)

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1754328/1881-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-65-Toned

2) Next up is a vivid 83-O in MS 64. Again we have nice bright colors but it falls short of monster toning. I think some people might question this one although I'm good with calling it market acceptable. It has sold before: $815.62 in 2017 and $2,306.25 in 2019 (both times at GC). The current 2,531.25 isn't a big increase over the 2019 result (down if we want to account for inflation) but still shows the strong premium has not gone away.

Result vs Guide (using PCGS guide as of 2.24.25): 2,531.25 vs 115 (22x premium)

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1756288/1883-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-64-Toned

3) Our only confirmed drop compared to a previous sale, this 1884-O MS 66 brought 3,150 compared to 3,642.50 at Legend in 2022. It has a hint of textile and color across the entire obverse. This is also a higher grade with CAC approval. It wasn't my favorite among the options (can't quite say why besides it not drawing me in on first impression like some of the others did) but was still a solid coin.

Result vs Guide (using PCGS guide as of 2.24.25): 3,150 vs 450 (7x premium)

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1756289/1884-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-66-CAC-Green-Toned

4) Just short of a gem, this vivid 64+ hammered at well over 4k! I know it used to be in an NGC 64 star slab and I believe it sold on Instagram a few years ago for below the current result (but cannot confirm for certain).

Result vs Guide (using PCGS guide as of 2.24.25): 4,443.75 vs 150 (29.6x premium)

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1756292/1886-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-64-Toned

5) This textile toner might border on being a monster. The 63 grade did not scare bidders off and it went for 3,487.50. This beat out its previous GC result of 2,963.12 in 2021 (no TrueView photo back then though as the coin was reholdered in the interim).

Result vs Guide (using PCGS guide as of 2.24.25): 3,487.50 vs 90 (38.8x premium)

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1756291/1885-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-63-Toned

6) Last but not least, is one more that I consider on the brink of being a monster toner (you can probably give it the designation). This 66+ has the right colors plus a cool triangle pattern. It sold for 7,368.75 compared to "only" 4,700 at Legend in 2020.

Result vs Guide (using PCGS guide as of 2.24.25): 7,368.75 vs 650 (11.3x premium)

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1756290/1885-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-66-CAC-Green-Toned-Roadrunner-Collection

U1chicago · February 24, 2025 8:02PM

And a bonus 7th item...I wanted to get a reverse toner into the mix too. This MS 63 1879-S has full reverse coverage and appears toe be quite vivid. The final price of 1,086.75 was greater than the February 2024 823.50 (also at GC).

Result vs Guide (using PCGS guide as of 2.24.25): 1,086.75 vs 100 (10.9x premium)

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1758869/1879-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-63-Toned

lermish · February 24, 2025 8:22PM

Thank you for posting some attractive coins and very informative pricing info.

I recently bought a small collection that had a couple of better than average toners and, thanks to previous your posts and some market research, was able to confidently give the owners a better than expected price while still having confidence that I will be able to exit the coins profitably.

coastaljerseyguy · February 25, 2025 5:27AM

Thanks for posting and taking the time & effort to gather all the data. Good to know folks still love these vivid Morgan toners. All look NT to me. Here's my 79S I got from an original roll from the 70's. Scratches on the plastic, not the coin. Glad I held on to it. Showed to a B&M years ago who wanted to buy for $400.

U1chicago · February 25, 2025 6:24AM

@coastaljerseyguy said:
Thanks for posting and taking the time & effort to gather all the data. Good to know folks still love these vivid Morgan toners. All look NT to me. Here's my 79S I got from an original roll from the 70's. Scratches on the plastic, not the coin. Glad I held on to it. Showed to a B&M years ago who wanted to buy for $400.

Looks like a very nice one that you were right in keeping!

PhilArnold · February 25, 2025 9:35AM

If you don't mind I'd like to post the GreatPhotos of all of these great toners.

I think I could've done a better job on the last one, but some great eye candy all around.

U1chicago · February 25, 2025 9:39AM

Happy to see them @PhilArnold !

U1chicago · February 25, 2025 7:22PM

@lermish said:
Thank you for posting some attractive coins and very informative pricing info.

I recently bought a small collection that had a couple of better than average toners and, thanks to previous your posts and some market research, was able to confidently give the owners a better than expected price while still having confidence that I will be able to exit the coins profitably.

Lately it seems like the only way to get a decent deal is to find an old collection before it gets to auction or pick off one of those dealers that doesn’t care for toning but somehow happened to acquire one (probably paid under sheet to a person who didn’t know the market).

Have you shared photos of these nice toners you were able to pick up?

Cougar1978 · February 25, 2025 7:37PM

Dream on in picking up a toner rip from me.

In pricing a toner (let’s say I picked up one in a deal) I would research what sellers online selling similar pieces for and improvise (bump up) my retail pricing accordingly. Perhaps analyzing the high, median, etc.

lermish · February 25, 2025 8:47PM

@U1chicago said:

@lermish said:
Thank you for posting some attractive coins and very informative pricing info.

I recently bought a small collection that had a couple of better than average toners and, thanks to previous your posts and some market research, was able to confidently give the owners a better than expected price while still having confidence that I will be able to exit the coins profitably.

Lately it seems like the only way to get a decent deal is to find an old collection before it gets to auction or pick off one of those dealers that doesn’t care for toning but somehow happened to acquire one (probably paid under sheet to a person who didn’t know the market).

Have you shared photos of these nice toners you were able to pick up?

They are all at CACG currently, I'll share pics when they return. Two of them I may keep (CA commem and 1851 dime) so I got the CACG imaging. The other three (99-O $1, 23-P $1, 86 ASE) will all be sold so I didn't pony up the extra $5. If they don't sell on the BST or IG, I'm sure @PhilArnold will do some nice PhilViews at GC.

They are not monsters or crazy iridescent colors like the ones above but nice and natural color. The Peace in particular, for a Peace, looks pretty darn nice.

U1chicago · February 25, 2025 9:01PM

@lermish said:

@U1chicago said:

@lermish said:
Thank you for posting some attractive coins and very informative pricing info.

I recently bought a small collection that had a couple of better than average toners and, thanks to previous your posts and some market research, was able to confidently give the owners a better than expected price while still having confidence that I will be able to exit the coins profitably.

Lately it seems like the only way to get a decent deal is to find an old collection before it gets to auction or pick off one of those dealers that doesn’t care for toning but somehow happened to acquire one (probably paid under sheet to a person who didn’t know the market).

Have you shared photos of these nice toners you were able to pick up?

They are all at CACG currently, I'll share pics when they return. Two of them I may keep (CA commem and 1851 dime) so I got the CACG imaging. The other three (99-O $1, 23-P $1, 86 ASE) will all be sold so I didn't pony up the extra $5. If they don't sell on the BST or IG, I'm sure @PhilArnold will do some nice PhilViews at GC.

They are not monsters or crazy iridescent colors like the ones above but nice and natural color. The Peace in particular, for a Peace, looks pretty darn nice.

Sounds like a cool group! The only thing I'd mention is that CACG has in the past stated they will grade all toned ASEs as Artificial; is that still the case?

lermish · February 25, 2025 9:47PM

@U1chicago said:

@lermish said:

@U1chicago said:

@lermish said:
Thank you for posting some attractive coins and very informative pricing info.

I recently bought a small collection that had a couple of better than average toners and, thanks to previous your posts and some market research, was able to confidently give the owners a better than expected price while still having confidence that I will be able to exit the coins profitably.

Lately it seems like the only way to get a decent deal is to find an old collection before it gets to auction or pick off one of those dealers that doesn’t care for toning but somehow happened to acquire one (probably paid under sheet to a person who didn’t know the market).

Have you shared photos of these nice toners you were able to pick up?

They are all at CACG currently, I'll share pics when they return. Two of them I may keep (CA commem and 1851 dime) so I got the CACG imaging. The other three (99-O $1, 23-P $1, 86 ASE) will all be sold so I didn't pony up the extra $5. If they don't sell on the BST or IG, I'm sure @PhilArnold will do some nice PhilViews at GC.

They are not monsters or crazy iridescent colors like the ones above but nice and natural color. The Peace in particular, for a Peace, looks pretty darn nice.

Sounds like a cool group! The only thing I'd mention is that CACG has in the past stated they will grade all toned ASEs as Artificial; is that still the case?

I wasn't aware of that. I guess I'll find out soon! (EDIT: It's lightly toned and 40 years old so maybe it'll get a pass?)

ElmerFusterpuck · February 25, 2025 9:57PM

@Cougar1978 said:
Dream on in picking up a toner rip from me.

In pricing a toner (let’s say I picked up one in a deal) I would research what sellers online selling similar pieces for and improvise (bump up) my retail pricing accordingly. Perhaps analyzing the high, median, etc.

You'd be the very last person I'd sell anything to, based on your posts here. In fact I'd try selling coins to my cat, before selling to you.

U1chicago · February 25, 2025 10:00PM

@lermish said:

@U1chicago said:

@lermish said:

@U1chicago said:

@lermish said:
Thank you for posting some attractive coins and very informative pricing info.

I recently bought a small collection that had a couple of better than average toners and, thanks to previous your posts and some market research, was able to confidently give the owners a better than expected price while still having confidence that I will be able to exit the coins profitably.

Lately it seems like the only way to get a decent deal is to find an old collection before it gets to auction or pick off one of those dealers that doesn’t care for toning but somehow happened to acquire one (probably paid under sheet to a person who didn’t know the market).

Have you shared photos of these nice toners you were able to pick up?

They are all at CACG currently, I'll share pics when they return. Two of them I may keep (CA commem and 1851 dime) so I got the CACG imaging. The other three (99-O $1, 23-P $1, 86 ASE) will all be sold so I didn't pony up the extra $5. If they don't sell on the BST or IG, I'm sure @PhilArnold will do some nice PhilViews at GC.

They are not monsters or crazy iridescent colors like the ones above but nice and natural color. The Peace in particular, for a Peace, looks pretty darn nice.

Sounds like a cool group! The only thing I'd mention is that CACG has in the past stated they will grade all toned ASEs as Artificial; is that still the case?

I wasn't aware of that. I guess I'll find out soon! (EDIT: It's lightly toned and 40 years old so maybe it'll get a pass?)

I recall a thread on the CACG forum where they made the announcement at some point last year. I’ve seen a few examples that were barely toned and got the AT-that’s being too extreme in my opinion. Hopefully your example gets the benefit.

TomB · February 25, 2025 10:04PM

@ElmerFusterpuck said:

@Cougar1978 said:
Dream on in picking up a toner rip from me.

In pricing a toner (let’s say I picked up one in a deal) I would research what sellers online selling similar pieces for and improvise (bump up) my retail pricing accordingly. Perhaps analyzing the high, median, etc.

You'd be the very last person I'd sell anything to, based on your posts here. In fact I'd try selling coins to my cat, before selling to you.

Cougar, cat, whatever...they're both felines!

SeattleSlammer · February 25, 2025 10:14PM

Thanks for the breakdown of results.

Here’s a quite nice one on eBay now — yes, mostly just reverse color — but it looks like a legit rainbow sparkler — and it has the 65CAC thing going too — and it’s ‘only’ 1k — it seems like a lot more bang for the buck than the sole reverse toner non-CAC 63 that you spotlighted here from GC — all in all, about as good as you’ll find these days on eBay for the price and considering their hefty seller fees too …… I almost bought it myself…. still might if it keeps sitting around ….

Cougar1978 · February 26, 2025 9:52AM

What would be your pricing matrix for toner premium?

hummingbird_coins · February 26, 2025 5:15PM

The "pricing matrix" in question:

Morgan13 · March 1, 2025 11:05AM

I consider this to be a special toner. Its a pcgs 66 prooflike .One which I might have to sell because my boiler died and it cost us $15 to replace. I'm going to try to avoid selling if I can.

Cougar1978 · March 1, 2025 3:23PM

It takes some analysis to get a feel on toner pricing. Working on a spreadsheet matrix analysis project for my own info -various sellers / file name - the good, the bad, and the ugly. Use it as feel for pricing if acquire a toner.

Rc5280 · March 1, 2025 4:09PM

@PhilArnold
The coin below(same as my member pic)was taken sometime in Jan of 2024 at GC.
Not sure if it was you who took the Great Photo, as you were transitioning at the time?
But the Coin, and it's presentation screamed at me to "Take Me Home!"...
So that's what I did...
.

.

Toner Premiums remain strong (a Morgan primer via GC)

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