Question for error people

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MWallace
MWallace Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

What is "The San Francisco Hoard"?

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  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,049 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2025 8:14AM
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    I'm looking in the red book and theres/was a section on hoards. It's a start and if found ill repost

    Are you referring to to saddle ridge? hoard

    Error?

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2025 8:21AM
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    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    There was also, of course, the error coin collection that was in a SDB that i believe @FredWeinberg handled

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,049 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @braddick said:
    The "San Francisco hoard of error coins" refers to a collection of numerous error coins that were reportedly discovered in a safe deposit box, believed to have been smuggled out of the San Francisco Mint, likely by employees hiding them inside forklift oil pans during servicing; this collection gained notoriety for its large number of proof error coins and the unusual method of their alleged smuggling.

    🙏

  • FredWeinberg
    FredWeinberg Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The “San Francisco hoard“ label by NGC has nothing to do with the proof errors that came out of the safe deposit box decades ago

    “The San Francisco horde“ was used for a large group of BU and proof Ike dollar blanks and
    Planchets (among others) that I bought from the son of a San Francisco mint employee 15–20 years ago or so

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • MWallace
    MWallace Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FredWeinberg said:
    The “San Francisco hoard“ label by NGC has nothing to do with the proof errors that came out of the safe deposit box decades ago

    “The San Francisco horde“ was used for a large group of BU and proof Ike dollar blanks and
    Planchets (among others) that I bought from the son of a San Francisco mint employee 15–20 years ago or so

    So are both hoards named "The San Francisco Hoard"?

  • Copperindian
    Copperindian Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I’m finding there’s more to this thread than meets the eye.
    There was a theft @ the SF Mint in 1901 where 6 bags of $20 gold pieces were removed by chief clerk Walter Dimmick. Total face value was $30k. Dimmick was prosecuted & found guilty based on mostly circumstantial evidence.
    When the “Saddle Ridge Hoard” was discovered around 2014, parallels were first drawn to the Dimmick theft due to the approximate $28k value of the find. This was dispelled due to the dates & denominations of SR; the Dimmick theft involved gold $20 only of dates 1895 & later. SR consisted of $5, $10 & $20 pieces dated from the 1850’s or so until 1894. Its origins are unknown; as well, the coins in the Dimmick theft have never been found.
    I could not find @braddick’s info, but am still researching that.
    I was further interested in @jmlanzaf’s post showing the 1874-S $20 coin labeled “San Francisco Gold Hoard” & graded PCGS MS60. When I referenced the PCGS info page it states the grade is “89 - genuine (brilliant uncirculated). The seller, Powell Coins, has the coin listed for sale on their website. I inquired as to any info they may have of this disparity & am waiting for a reply.
    @MWallace: you really started something here, Mike. Good thread!

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

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  • FredWeinberg
    FredWeinberg Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Are we talking about the “San Francisco gold hoard “ label, or just the NGC error coins with the label saying “San Francisco hoard“?

    I’m only familiar with the “San Francisco hoard“ coins, not the gold coin, hoard labels

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • MWallace
    MWallace Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FredWeinberg said:
    Are we talking about the “San Francisco gold hoard “ label, or just the NGC error coins with the label saying “San Francisco hoard“?

    I’m only familiar with the “San Francisco hoard“ coins, not the gold coin, hoard labels

    I was asking about "The SF Hoard" in the OP. I've seen Ike $ planchets (proof clad and proof 40% silver) labeled "The SF Hoard" but couldn't find any info on it. You answered my question in your post. Thank you.

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @braddick said:
    The "San Francisco hoard of error coins" refers to a collection of numerous error coins that were reportedly discovered in a safe deposit box, believed to have been smuggled out of the San Francisco Mint, likely by employees hiding them inside forklift oil pans during servicing; this collection gained notoriety for its large number of proof error coins and the unusual method of their alleged smuggling.

    I would have said this.

    I am not familiar with the hoard of blanks and planchets that Fred mentioned. I do know that in the 70's SF shipped reject Proof Ike planchets to Denver where they were used to make business strike coins. That is how some 40% silver planchets ended up being struck as 1974-D and 1977-D Ikes.

    I am not familiar with that San Francisco Gold Hoard. Were all of the coins AU like this?

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • MWallace
    MWallace Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Here's one:

  • Byers
    Byers Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    From THE San Francisco Hoard:

    https://mikebyers.com/unique-set-of-ike-experimental-planchets.html

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • gonzer
    gonzer Posts: 3,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MWallace said:
    Here's one:

    How is a blank planchet considered a mint error? This is not one of the experimentals posted by Mike.

  • MWallace
    MWallace Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @gonzer said:

    @MWallace said:

    Here's one:

    How is a blank planchet considered a mint error? This is not one of the experimentals posted by Mike.

    I get this question quite often. Blanks and planchets are not errors. But, since they are mostly collected by the error collecting community, they have just always been in the error category. The "experimentals" would not be considered errors either in my opinion.

  • AUandAG
    AUandAG Posts: 25,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @braddick said:
    The "San Francisco hoard of error coins" refers to a collection of numerous error coins that were reportedly discovered in a safe deposit box, believed to have been smuggled out of the San Francisco Mint, likely by employees hiding them inside forklift oil pans during servicing; this collection gained notoriety for its large number of proof error coins and the unusual method of their alleged smuggling.

    Hmmmm, they had forklifts in the 1870's? new to me.

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • thebeav
    thebeav Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @AUandAG said:
    Hmmmm, they had forklifts in the 1870's? new to me.

    They were lucky that they had forks......

    My Ebay Coin Store
  • Copperindian
    Copperindian Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2025 8:53AM
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    Updating my post above from yesterday that cites the coin below:


    I didn’t receive a reply from the seller as to the discrepancy what PCGS shows as the present grade Genuine (89 - Brilliant Uncirculated) & the pics above. The coin is for sale as pictured on their website. It was formerly sold in a HA auction in July 2017 as depicted above.
    I’m also curious about the label. I’ve never seen one before like this “San Francisco Gold Hoard”. If someone else has, I’m wondering if there’s any history surrounding it?

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian
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    Indy Eagles
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    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
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