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War Nickels— A Switch Which Launched a Thousand Heavy Tanks

JCH22JCH22 Posts: 252 ✭✭✭✭

Had wondered how significant a switch from nickel to silver really was to the war effort.

Apparently, it was enough to provide the nickel necessary to make armor plate for 1000 heavy tanks per year:


Comments

  • goldengolden Posts: 9,789 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool.

  • KiwiNumiKiwiNumi Posts: 149 ✭✭✭

    Fascinating. I'd always wondered how much of a difference it made as well.

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The actual composition became 56% copper, 35% silver and 9% manganese. Silver was dirt cheap back then. I'm sure they had no idea that the silver in a war nickel would today be worth $1.66, and that the vast majority of war nickels would have been melted for their silver content.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 9,552 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting. Proves through coin collecting one can learn history. Thanks for the info.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting, thanks.

    Mr_Spud

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most interesting 🤔

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's nice to see hard numbers on the benefits. We know that a lot of the war-time home front sacrifices were somewhat cosmetic. More sharing the pain than realistic benefits to the war efforts.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 824 ✭✭✭✭

    They also were considering reviving three cent pieces and half dimes. I think bringing back the half dime from a policy standpoint would have been the most beneficial as a clad half dime would save us a lot of grief concerning nickel costs.

  • TPringTPring Posts: 42 ✭✭
    edited January 5, 2025 9:04AM

    It's a good thing we didn't have Tiger tanks or the total number of tanks added would have only been a fraction of that.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,426 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TPring said:
    It's a good thing we didn't have Tiger tanks or the total number of tanks added would have only been a fraction of that.

    Some true heavy US tanks were designed and built (40 M6 examples + prototypes of an even heavier tank). The US M3 and M4 medium tanks were produced in very large numbers. The Germans would probably have been wise to put all of their money and effort into the production of more Panther tanks. The Panther tanks were much, much cheaper than the Tiger I and Tiger II of which only about 1500 were ever built. The US Built about 45,000 M4 Sherman tanks, each costing about 1/7th of what a Tiger Tank cost. The Tigers were very deadly but had flaws. They were too heavy and experienced frequent breakdowns. They also used too much fuel for a country that suffered from fuel shortages.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Overdate said:
    The actual composition became 56% copper, 35% silver and 9% manganese. Silver was dirt cheap back then. I'm sure they had no idea that the silver in a war nickel would today be worth $1.66, and that the vast majority of war nickels would have been melted for their silver content.

    I wonder what the metal prices need to be before smelting becomes profitable? Are there any laws prohibiting it in the US?

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2025 1:50PM

    @davewesen said:

    @Overdate said:
    The actual composition became 56% copper, 35% silver and 9% manganese. Silver was dirt cheap back then. I'm sure they had no idea that the silver in a war nickel would today be worth $1.66, and that the vast majority of war nickels would have been melted for their silver content.

    I wonder what the metal prices need to be before smelting becomes profitable? Are there any laws prohibiting it in the US?

    >
    See https://federalregister.gov/documents/2007/04/16/E7-7088/prohibition-on-the-exportation-melting-or-treatment-of-5-cent-and-one-cent-coins .

    It prohibits melting of cents and nickels, HOWEVER, the following text appears in the supplementary information section:

    "The Industry Council for Tangible Assets (Council), a trade association for rare coin and precious metals dealers, submitted a comment suggesting that an exception be added for the exportation, melting, or treatment of “war nickels.” War nickels were 5-cent coins produced during World War II, from 1942 through 1945, from a special alloy of copper, silver, and manganese in order to conserve nickel for the war effort. The Council points out that the war nickels are traded for their numismatic value, they are melted for the value of their metal composition, and that few, if any, remain as circulating coins. Because it appears that covering war nickels under the regulation would disrupt longstanding practices and would not further the protection of circulating coinage, we have added an exception for such coins."

    The melting of war nickels began around 1963, when the silver in a war nickel was worth about 7 cents. Melting has continued since then, but because it costs more to reclaim silver from war nickels compared to reclaiming it from 90% silver coins, war nickels have usually traded at a discount relative to the amount of silver they contain.

    My own estimate is that more than 90% of all war nickels minted have either been melted or lost through attrition. The low-mintage 1943-D was preferentially saved in quantity, including circulated specimens; but other dates generally were not, and some (like the 1944-S) might actually be scarcer now than the 1950-D nickel.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • JCH22JCH22 Posts: 252 ✭✭✭✭

    @Overdate said:

    The melting of war nickels began around 1963, when the silver in a war nickel was worth about 7 cents. Melting has continued since then, but because it costs more to reclaim silver from war nickels compared to reclaiming it from 90% silver coins, war nickels have usually traded at a discount relative to the amount of silver they contain.

    Spot on with both your date, and value in 1963!

    The Chronicle, Dec., 18, 1963

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JCH22 said:

    Spot on with both your date, and value in 1963!

    >
    Thanks, as a college student in 1963 I was actually searching rolls for war nickels and shipping them off to refiners. Postage was cheap enough to make it worthwhile, especially with the dollar worth 10 times what it is today. (As a bonus, I also found a couple of 1950-D nickels and some mintmarked buffaloes from the 1920's.)

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fascinating, very cool

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  • JCH22JCH22 Posts: 252 ✭✭✭✭

    @johnjohn10 said:
    Very interesting. On the same topic this paper below had a theory that both Japan and Germany started minting nickel coins in 1933 with the intend to recall them in case they were at war....

    >
    Great reference! Japan was completely dependent on imports for nickel. Appears the quest for nickel may have been a driver in the formation of the Axis Alliance:

    Abstract of : New Caledonian Nickel and the Origins of the Axis Alliance, 1931–40, Chad B. Denton:

    In a 25 August 1940 telegram, the Vichy colonial ministry ordered New Caledonia to turn over its entire nickel production to Japan. This decision, announced in Nouméa on 3 September 1940, has been interpreted by ....historians ... as a ‘camouflaged’ military invasion and a trigger for the successful bloodless coup that brought New Caledonia to the side of Free France 16 days later. The telegram’s full text, however, suggests an equally important interpretation, one that contributes to recent scholarship arguing for the ‘trans-imperial’ origins of the ‘global axis alliance’ from 1931 to 1940. Drawing on Japanese, Australian, American and French archival sources, this article argues that New Caledonian nickel – a crucial metal in armament production – not only helped Japan’s pursuit of a [self sufficient] empire in the 1930s but also served as a Japanese bargaining chip that helped convince the Germans to sign the Tripartite Pact on 27 September 1940.

    Interesting to learn that nickel/coins was such a substantive concern for all combatants.

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