Fake PCGS 1881-CC shows up in Canada
Old_Collector
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I would hope that everyone here would immediately recognize this in hand as it has all the hallmarks of a fake, including missing the PCGS embossed logo in the lower right corner, the poor bar code quality, and a pretty fake looking coin that is far from the actual coin in its TrueView. I reported this already to PCGS and hopefully the word will get around. The seller had three and the LCS bought two before he figured out that it was a fake but let the seller get away.
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These have been posted here many times with various cert numbers used; I myself have written a number of articles on these as well as a pending presentation.
Bummer that the dealer lost out. These days count your blessings and all are well 🙏
The gasket is a giveaway as well.
Does the cert and bar code check out?
Using the built in NFC chip would give it away, but many are not aware of that yet.
The cert number does match an 1881-S, but the coin is clearly not even close.
If the LCS bought two and is letting the seller off the hook with one more, will this encourage the seller to scam at least one more person?
Letting the seller get away seems like this will only encourage the seller more.
Can you link to these articles?
This would have fooled me
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Consider using the app on your phone to check the NFC, PCGS has been using it for over 4 years now and it would give you a very fast picture of the actual coin that you would have recognized as not the coin in the holder, it really does work.
https://www.pcgs.com/news/security-chip-slabs
Not so well on all of the certs used with no images.
That was helpful, but I was looking for information on how to identify fake slab PUP'S
There are online safeguards as you mentioned as well as the corresponding VAM
What about older slabs? NGC? ANACS?
Buffs or cents I would be lost looking at a 2D image online. Probably a risk in hand.
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Older slabs you can scan the bar code but for higher value coins you just need to exercise a higher level of caution. I've not heard of any fake slabs for Buffalos or Lincolns. As a collector of MS Lincolns, I try to remain capable to detect a fake in the more valuable coins. And I would probably not buy an 09-SVDB, 1914-D, 55DDO, or the like Lincoln from just anyone.
But for the more recent slabs there is no fake slab that has an NFC chip, it simply would not detect, which should arouse your suspicion and lead to further investigation.
The fake slabs seen so far don't even bother with putting the embossed PCGS logo on the lower right corner after many years, and the NFC is a much bigger challenge that will not be easy to overcome by these cheap efforts.
Images are just an ancillary benefit. It also specifically identifies the coin as what it is using the data stored in the NFC chip, which is quite secure far more than just a UPC code. The picture is just a convenience if available. Try one, it is fall off a log simple and does provide a level of additional security.
https://coinweek.com/an-epidemic-of-counterfeit-1881-cc-morgans-and-bad-pcgs-slabs/
OK, but I was responding to your comment "it would give you a very fast picture of the actual coin that you would have recognized as not the coin in the holder"....
I actually own no genuine PCGS slabs with the chip, so I assume you are stating scanning it would respond with an image of an actual coin, not the one with no image on the on-line cert.
I'm getting lost in this; you state the cert# does match an 1881-"S"? I agree it is not even close to that or the 1881-CC for this cert.
Here is my Dark Side Collection example:
Definitely a concern, as the OP's version has no "Morgan" on the label as they all have in the past...
I wonder how much scammers make on coins that:
Are these part of tuition?
iirc, there was a report on here where there was an nfc chip. the fake chip pulled up the cert verification page ok
what wasn't there was the green banner and check mark telling you the nfc was verified
Wow! That's good to know!
Good to know, thanks. This is a real issue for those who are either not aware or in a very busy situation where they might not spend the time that they need to because they don't have it.
the best way to learn pup on a slab and label and holo and gasket is to compare the counterfeit with the genuines
some things that aren't so obvious
they mix the slab pieces from different generations together
there are 2 generations of barcodes and those can be mixed up between generations
the clarity of the plastic has changed, it is clearer now
if you don't have a genuine example, try searching on quality auction houses' pages for one of the same generation the counterfeit is pretending to be. use the pcgs slab generation museum. ask questions here
Looks like the common bar code seen on these as well:
they're out to prove an invalid barcode is still a barcode that is just gibberish
And today one here on the Bay...
I have an open customer care discussion going with PCGS on this issue and reported this EBay item to them so they will contact EBay, they will not be ignored like us. The seller even put a note at the bottom that he has been told this is a fake coin and holder but he still leaves it up, PCGS will deal with this one.
The listing was removed; really interested in your "customer care" discussion results.
Yes, they sent me an email and stated that they removed it following my report:
"Hello ks9969,
Thanks again for reporting the problematic content you found.
What happened:
We looked into your report and removed the content. It may take up to 24 hours for it to reflect on the site. This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence.
We let the content uploader know about this decision and the action taken. They may have the option to fix the content to make it visible again on site. They can also appeal our decision, and we'll review the case again and may reverse the original decision and action taken."
This thing is all over the place though. PCGS still working on that part of the problem. I've had EBay usually just blow off these complaints too many times, but not this time, giving me more hope for them.
we could inundate pcgs
One of thousands. They make counterfeit coins and slabs that are 10x better than the "one" in the OP that just showed up somewhere in Canada. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
What evidence is there that these counterfeits are made in Canada or did I misunderstand your comment? I think there is a country that does not honor US patents and trademarks that might be more probable source of counterfeits. The question is whether anyone is actually trying to locate the individuals and companies involved in this counterfeiting. Perhaps @burfle23 can comment on whether anyone is trying to identify the counterfeiters. Thank you.
What did the OP mean by "the poor bar code quality" ?
I have many posts in this forum documenting many counterfeit "PCGS" slabbed bad coins as well as the main CN source. I don't believe anyone here said they are made in Canada, just that the OP's posted one was 1st seen there.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1092738/master-list-of-pcgs-counterfeits-and-slabs-from-one-seller#latest
I haven't updated the list here and the seller keeps moving his internet link...
I never said anything about counterfeits being made in Canada. I was simply referring to the title of the OPs thread. Sorry for the confusion. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Is the coin a counterfeit or just the slab?
Both. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
few things for you to do
pcgs has a description of their 2 generations of barcodes on their site
1. you'll see they are interleaved 2 of 5
2. look at the format of the 2nd generation
find a barcode generator and generate the bar code for this label
find a online barcode reader or, if you have the app, try reading this barcode
interleaved 2 of 5 doesn't mean there are 2 types of bars, but for the encoding style, there ARE only 2 types of bars though: skinny and fat. take a look at the barcode off the counterfeit and count the different types of bars
Thank you for the clarification and the link.
Nobody said that they were made in Canada. A dealer in Canada bought 2 and was later offered a third before he figured out that they were fake. I think most of us would notice before the first, but definitely not buy a second identically slabbed fake, much less consider a third. They are most likely of Chinese origin, and no doubt there are large numbers out there.
Thanks again for the clarification. I did not read blitzdude's post carefully so it is my error. Happy Holidays.
Do you mean ones that have collectively all the numbered issues you stated?
And "tuition" for what, the scammers or the ones who don't do their homework and buy one for more than $29.00?