What's keeping this 67+ Morgan from MS68?

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  • mr1931S
    mr1931S Posts: 7,311 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Coin is NOT a superb gem (minimum TPG grade MS 67), in my opinion. Think about what those MS numbers are supposed to mean in words, folks.

    "Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
    -Albert Einstein-

    Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.

  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I like it as an MS67, but coming to Morgans from the world of Peace dollars, they often seem overgraded to me.

  • rays
    rays Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2024 3:27PM
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    In favor of 68:
    An incredibly clean cheek.

    In favor of 67:
    A couple of tiny obverse spots and luster breaks over the eagle’s breast on the reverse.

    In favor of “+”:
    Unknown, but presumably intense and attractive lustre .

    Even an MS68 Morgan will have some tiny flaws.

  • skier07
    skier07 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice coin.

    I don’t think 99% of dealers or collectors can tell the difference between a 67+ and 68, myself included.

  • oreville
    oreville Posts: 12,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2024 3:18AM
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    The OP asked posters to nitpick why this coin might not go to MS-68. Hopefully we did so?

    Hard to tell from the photo if the luster brings it to MS-68. It does have above mentioned issues preventing MS-68. Looks like CAC stickered it as a MS-67 not gold stickered as a MS-68.

    MS-67 is damned close to perfect. MS-68 is essentially perfect. If not perfect, room for us to nitpick.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • VanHalen
    VanHalen Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    There's a small rim ding at 8:30 reverse, numerous carbon spots and several minor ticks and hits on both surfaces.

  • Typekat
    Typekat Posts: 729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2024 6:37PM
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    @RobertScotLover

    “I agree but…” - then six lines of disagree.
    Sheesh. Okay:

    As a dealer running a busy coin shop, yes, I bought distilled water in 5-gallons, EZest by the gallon, acetone by the quart, and Rustoleum as needed. I don’t know what sort of shops (pawn?) you have been on tours of, but none of our chemicals were on anyone’s desk. We had a separate room for ‘lab work,’ all of which I did myself.

    The lab was mostly for for US silver coins: circ dollars, silver halves, quarters, and dimes, which came to us in bank bags, cardboard albums, PVC-bearing plastic albums, leather purses, coffee cans, cigar boxes, toolboxes, Tums boxes, jelly jars, ammo cans, etc. and were sometimes a mess. For common bulk 90% silver 50c 25c & 10c, we just counted them into bags. But a lot of stuff with collector value needed removal of grunge, dirt, PVC, or ugly tarnish. Otherwise, they wouldn’t look good in anyone’s collection, or even good enough for stacking, for that matter.

    BUT, (and this is the important historical truth you seem to be having trouble with)
    99% of uncirculated Morgan dollars from original bags and rolls were sold ‘as is’, because they came white, brilliant, and unimprovable,

    And: Don’t be a pessimist - you’ll hit it off with a ‘gal’ someday!

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

  • RobertScotLover
    RobertScotLover Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Typekat,
    maybe when put into the bags they were blast white, that we know. But are you telling me silver doesn't tarnish while remaining in those bags. I have seen some pretty nice mint bag toning with and without the fabric pattern on the surfaces of Miss Liberty's lovely features. It doesn't take that long for blast white silver to tarnish, you should see my mom's silverware

  • ProofCollection
    ProofCollection Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RobertScotLover said:
    Typekat,
    maybe when put into the bags they were blast white, that we know. But are you telling me silver doesn't tarnish while remaining in those bags. I have seen some pretty nice mint bag toning with and without the fabric pattern on the surfaces of Miss Liberty's lovely features. It doesn't take that long for blast white silver to tarnish, you should see my mom's silverware

    I guess they dipped all of those GSA dollars before they put them in the GSA holders?

  • RobertScotLover
    RobertScotLover Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    PC,
    were you there while they were encasing them.And do you think they may have been lightly or correctly cleaned prior to entombment. You have no idea, and neither do it because we weren't there

  • Typekat
    Typekat Posts: 729 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I give up.
    you win
    Tell Robert goodbye for me

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

  • ProofCollection
    ProofCollection Posts: 8,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RobertScotLover said:
    PC,
    were you there while they were encasing them.And do you think they may have been lightly or correctly cleaned prior to entombment. You have no idea, and neither do it because we weren't there

    You give our government way too much credit.

  • messydesk
    messydesk Posts: 20,819 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Regarding the spots, the ones in the lower hair look a bit like struck-in sawdust, which is common on 85-O. The spots by E•P are the same color and might also be embedded sawdust. If they're all sawdust, they can be removed, but they'll leave little pits. Since they wouldn't be as obvious, I suppose it would have a marginally better chance at a 68, but I'm guessing it would still be a no.

    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • MapsOnFire
    MapsOnFire Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
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    The grader had cataract surgery that morning, arrived at the office with a patch over one eye and a shade over the other eye. Her 3-martini lunch sent her mind spinning, caused her to head to fill with circling images of all the coins she had seen in the previous two days. To prevent herself from falling off her chair she grabbed at the table and accidentally hit the '+' key on the keyboard, instigating this discussion.

  • RobertScotLover
    RobertScotLover Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I guess all Morgans have to be blast white from proper nonreactive storage unless a can of peaches is laying near by, need to ask check the chef of that famous casino owner

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