As promised (long ago), a breakdown of actual results from the sale of my collection.
BryceM
Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
Many of you probably remember the period of time that I was pretty actively collecting. I shared many of my exciting adventures and treasures. I learned how to take good photos. I met many truly wonderful people. My records show the bulk of my "obtaining" was from roughly 2011 to 2022. A year or two ago I decided to go a different direction and sell the majority of my collection. It was a decision that I arrived at gradually, and in retrospect, it was the correct one. If you do a search, you can find the thread that explains my decision.
I think about coins still quite often, and it's likely I'll restart this thing at some point. I used the help of John Agre at CRO coin to help me sell 200-odd PCGS slabbed coins. I kept a half-dozen or so, and I sold a half-dozen on my own. The rest went to him. Some ended up in auctions, of course, but he sold most of them on his website. I can't say enough about how happy I am with what he was able to do. Sending it all straight to auction would have been faster, but there's no way I would have realized the same net result. John is more than fair, and he has a great marketing machine.
The liquidation took roughly a year, and in fact there are still 2 or 3 coins sill for sale with him. At this point, I'm about 98% done and can finally draw some conclusions.
A few points:
- My focus has been Peace dollars, US type (with gold), and Classic Commems. My knowledge base is strongest in the Peace dollar arena, and probably weakest in moderns and early copper.
- These coins were acquired in HA, Stacks, GC, Legend, and eBay auctions, in-person at shows, and from dealer websites. Most of my auction wins were previewed either by myself at lot viewing, or by Mark Feld at HA. His help and input has been an absolute, key part of my journey.
- I think I put as much thought and care into the cheapie coins as I did in the 5-figure showpieces.
- No, I don't miss them too much.
- Yes, I'm doing something really fun with the money.
- I miss the show circuit and people in the hobby quite a bit. I do think I'll try to hit a major show sometime when it's convenient.
- I really like rarity, quality, beauty, and shiny expensive things. I just can't seem to get into stuffing ho-hum coins into albums.
- I don't think I'll ever take up another series. It's too constraining, and someday a true box of 20 might be the most fun, as long as there aren't too many rules. Maybe it will be a box of 21 or 27.
- I kept meticulous records, receipts, and have proof of the cost basis for 99% of my coins.
I broke the sale data into a few categories. Early copper, Classic type, Modern Type, Classic Silver dollars, Trade/Morgan/Peace dollars, Commems, and pre-33 gold. Overall, I netted 4.6% more than I paid, which, I suppose, makes me an oddity...... actually making a very slight profit from the hobby. Grading fees, travel to shows, and such ate it all up, no doubt (and then some), but that's just part of the hobby.
Here's the data. Make of it what you will:
Early copper (8 coins), average value $1900, profit of 7.6%
Classic type (44 coins), average value $2100, loss of 1.1%
Modern type (24 coins), average value $330, loss of 37.2%
Classic Silver Dollars (4 coins), average value $3400, profit of 30.7%
Trade/Morgan/Peace Dollars (11 coins), average value $2200, profit of 7.2%
Classic Commems (22 coins), average value $1350, profit of 7%
Pre-33 gold (16 coins), average value $3500), profit of 10.5%
My take-home points:
- My modern, clad coins (from my top-5 all time 20th Century US Type PCGS Registry Set) did horribly. I don't think I'll be collecting these at any point in the future.
- Pre-33 gold did OK (as I expected), but the profit did not keep pace with the rise of bullion during this period (about a 16% jump from 2012 to 2023). In the world of gold, generic Saints would have been a better "investment."
- I thought the classic commems would do poorly. I simply had fun with these, collecting nice toners, and fun coins that appealed to me. I didn't buy designs I didn't like.
- I suspect the 6 or 7 coins I kept would be big winners if I were to sell them. This would change the data a bit.
- All four of the classic silver dollars (1797 to 1869) were big winners.
- In general, the classic type coins were some of my favorites and underwent the most scrutiny when purchasing. They didn't perform as well.
- I previously sold my top-10 registry set of Peace dollars (24 coins), also for a very small profit before accounting for grading fees.
- Looking back at my records, during the 10-year run, I bought and sold over a million dollars worth of coins. This fact absolutely stunned me. I had no idea. I'm guessing I was within a percent or two either way of breaking even during that time.
- If you know anything about economics and the time value of money, you'll easily see that collecting coins (the way I did) is a terrible investment when compared to other investment classes. I never used this as a part of my retirement planning (all separate) and it was just fun, but people should be aware of the opportunity cost if the hobby is a big part of their net worth.
- Some coins sold for a heartbreaking loss. Some sold for a surprising gain. It's best to not focus too much on individual results.
- Using a dealer at sale time adds some complexity and time, and it requires good communication and a bit of trust, but it was absolutely the right answer for me.
- I totally enjoyed it, and I have no regrets.
Comments
Great info, thanks for sharing
I would have thought that the early copper would have gained a bigger profit
The classic silver dollars is no suprise
Congrats on your sales and hope you're enjoying what ever you're doing now
We'll see you again, I'm sure, you just can't quit this hobby
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Thanks for the breakdown and update!
Basically breaking even on the coins and only “losing out” on your time and travel/submitting expenses sounds like a great deal for a hobbyist.
Thank you for sharing the experience in detail. Glad to hear it panned out well overall; would love to see a post about the coins you hung onto and why if you’re ever so inclined!
I'm happy with the one I got from you.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Great write up. Thanks for taking the time to share your journey. Sounds like you enjoyed it (enough to keep some things around). I bet the 6-7 coins that you kept are outstanding.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Bryce, I remember the first time we met at a show, long ago - what a good attitude you had then and have maintained, ever since. You're enthusiastic, extremely thorough, disciplined, fun, so very easy to work with and get along with, and always a pleasure to talk to.
It's been a joy to see how much you've learned about coins, as well as photography.
Your posts here consistently show your conscientiousness and attention to detail and always make for good reads.
Lastly, you've always been very gracious in acknowledging any assistance you've received from others. I'm truly honored to have accompanied you on part of your journey.
PS - I'll look forward to hearing about your box of 21, 27 or whatever number it ends up being.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Great write up of your experience, thanks for sharing it with us.
As for this observation from another poster:
** I would have thought that the early copper would have gained a bigger profit**
The OP readily admitted his knowledge was weakest in this area, and we also don’t know when they were acquired over the 11 year period vs when they were sold.
This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read on the forum! Thank you so much for sharing your experience from a financial perspective!
I guess that's why we have wives to keep us in check.
outstanding post and very impressive record keeping. Congratulations and thanks for sharing
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
Interesting, the point on moderns is not surprising only a few big players are making a market in these. I do see a future there however perhaps the next generation. Great post thank you for doing it.
Great post - I appreciate you sharing with us. I’m a few years away, but I’m entertaining similar thoughts. It’s not something to rush into as you aptly pointed out. Best of luck in your future endeavors!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
What a
read. When I got to the words “fun”, and “no regrets” it gave me great solace. And how much fun is enjoying a million dollars worth of collectible coins (over time ) ? A good steward.
Thanks for posting! I hope some of the people that come onto this website to gain insights into "coins as an investment" will read this first! Maybe it should be made into a "sticky note" at the top of the Forum!
Seriously though, you have a similar approach... I look at this HOBBY as a source of enjoyment and, above all... Fun! I had to sell off the bulk of my collection around 2012. Sometimes Life happens with a small family, and you do what you have to do... like selling coins. Selling was an eye-opener!! When I came back to collecting around 2019, I was in a much better financial position and I had a much better "eye", as well as a better feel for the Market.
Congrats on selling and best of luck in your new endeavor!
If you don't mind me asking... what did you keep?
Best, Leo
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Thanks for your story.
Best summary statement from the OP:
"If you know anything about economics and the time value of money, you'll easily see that collecting coins (the way I did) is a terrible investment when compared to other investment classes. I never used this as a part of my retirement planning (all separate) and it was just fun, but people should be aware of the opportunity cost if the hobby is a big part of their net worth."
Very interesting post. Thanks for sharing
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Very insightful post and super helpful for a newer collector like myself. Curious about which handful of coins you’ve decided to keep if you don’t mind sharing
I believe it friend.
I still remember our meeting at one of the Sandy, UT shows years ago. At that time, I was just getting to know your substantial numismatic acumen!!! Great write-up, and I hope you have a super return to the forefront of the hobby someday!
Drunner
I would like to start my response by saying that this is one of the most open, honest, and insightful posts I’ve read on these boards in some time. I thank you for that.
Perhaps the most striking and relatable comment to me was regarding your efforts and care towards every purchase you made, no matter how “cheapie” a coin might have been. I really believe there is no bigger sign of a true coin collector as this.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
Thanks for the kind words everyone. When I get a second I’ll make the spreadsheet show me the % realized for CAC vs non-CAC’d coins.