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One of the coolest things I've purchased in this business...

COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

This weekend, I was set up at the Low Country coin show. I bought tons and tons of coins, but I acquired this awesome piece of history I just had to share. This ranks high on the list of cool things Ive purchased in this business. This is an original court stenographer's record of a trial held on June 17th, 1807, in New York. The defendant, Stephen Morris, was accused by the State of New York of knowingly passing a counterfeit gold coin for goods. He pleaded not guilty and was eventually acquitted. A fascinating piece of history for a coin dealer who frequently encounters counterfeit coins. There is 3 pages of records from this trial, but this is the most interesting one. Enjoy.

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    DocBenjaminDocBenjamin Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Incredible. NYC only had a population of about 80,000 in 1807. Would have been fascinating to take the time machine back there for a couple of days.

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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool. And a half eagle was the suspect coin.

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    TrickleChargeTrickleCharge Posts: 415 ✭✭✭✭

    Neat stuff. That would go very well with a contemporary counterfeit collection.

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    StoogeStooge Posts: 4,692 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just love the handwriting of that big word at the bottom....ACQUITTED.
    Very cool cursive from the early 1800's.


    Later, Paul.
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    kazkaz Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Was the DA named Riker? As in Riker's Island?
    That is really cool, Rob.

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    TrickleChargeTrickleCharge Posts: 415 ✭✭✭✭

    @kaz said:
    Was the DA named Riker? As in Riker's Island?
    That is really cool, Rob.

    Sure seems like it:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Riker

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    COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes richard Riker was the district attorney assigned to this case. He was the first ever district attorney in what is now called New York county NY

    New inventory added daily at Coins Make Cents
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    COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Namvet69 said:
    Very cool. And a half eagle was the suspect coin.

    Yes it was, anyone have a contemporary counterfeit half eagle for sale?

    New inventory added daily at Coins Make Cents
    HAPPY COLLECTING


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    COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kaz said:
    Was the DA named Riker? As in Riker's Island?
    That is really cool, Rob.

    I will bring it to the next show for you to see in person! I thought about you after I bought it, and knew you would appreciate seeing it. Cool history!

    New inventory added daily at Coins Make Cents
    HAPPY COLLECTING


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    airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @COINS MAKE CENTS said:

    @Namvet69 said:
    Very cool. And a half eagle was the suspect coin.

    Yes it was, anyone have a contemporary counterfeit half eagle for sale?

    I don’t know if he has one, but Dave Wnuck deals in a variety of contemporary counterfeits. If he doesn’t have one he may well be able to find one or point you in the right direction.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
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    CoinbertCoinbert Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Winston Zack at badmetalcoins.com also sells contemporary counterfeit coins. He has written books too.

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    CopperindianCopperindian Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool, especially with the Riker link!

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

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    kazkaz Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @COINS MAKE CENTS said:

    @kaz said:
    Was the DA named Riker? As in Riker's Island?
    That is really cool, Rob.

    I will bring it to the next show for you to see in person! I thought about you after I bought it, and knew you would appreciate seeing it. Cool history!

    Thanks, Rob! I look forward to seeing it.

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    qrtqrt Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2024 2:00PM

    .

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    johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow very cool piece of Americana.

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 4,098 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @COINS MAKE CENTS said:

    @Namvet69 said:
    Very cool. And a half eagle was the suspect coin.

    Yes it was, anyone have a contemporary counterfeit half eagle for sale?

    Never said it was a US gold coin, it 1807 it probably wasn’t.

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    FrankHFrankH Posts: 982 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    SapyxSapyx Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:

    @COINS MAKE CENTS said:

    @Namvet69 said:
    Very cool. And a half eagle was the suspect coin.

    Yes it was, anyone have a contemporary counterfeit half eagle for sale?

    Never said it was a US gold coin, it 1807 it probably wasn’t.

    Actually, it does say it was a half eagle. It literally says it was a "half eagle, then being a species of gold coin current in the state of New York". This is a legal document where the exact nature of the coin in question was the centre of the case. If it was a counterfeit British sovereign, or Spanish escudo, or Indian mohur, it would have said so.

    What I'm curious about is the reason for the acquittal. Was it determined that the coin was not in fact counterfeit after all, or was he found not guilty on the grounds of being an unwitting utterer - in other words, it was determined that Stephen Morris was previously given a counterfeit half eagle by someone else, and he then spent it in good faith, so there was no "intent to defraud".

    We should also consider the amount of money involved. In 1807, a half eagle ($5) was about two weeks wages for a labourer. In which case, Stephen Morris wouldn't have simply been given the counterfeit half eagle in change - his boss would probably have given it to him as the fortnight's pay.

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    MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a fantastic piece of numis history!

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with the OP. Coolest thing ever.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 4,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A very interesting piece of numismatic history. I have examples of my parents writing from 50 years ago that is very similar. I doubt if anyone under 30 has handwriting like that.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Probably a Kettle Token.

    Counterfeiting was a very widespread problem with both coins and paper. Documentation from counterfeit currency cases can often be found with the original counterfeit notes attached. These things were saved in court houses all over the U.S. and some have found their way to collectors over the years.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.

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