Numi v2: AI Coin Sorting

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AlbumNerd
AlbumNerd Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭
edited June 4, 2024 1:07PM in U.S. Coin Forum

After playing around with my AI coin grading project for half a year, I've started to sour on the idea. I think Technical Grading will eventually be accurate enough to be useful, but I don't think the market will accept it. PCGS, NGC, and CAC are just too dominant. People want and trust the judgment of these companies. I just can't see AI grading taking off in a big manner.

But...after testing AI over a thousand times, I noticed that it's extremely accurate in identifying coins 99% of the time. Specifically identifying the series, year, and mintmark. [For US and World Coins, not medals or tokens. Nor varieties/errors]

I've been working towards a robotics system to identify and sort coins using ROS2, a Raspberry Pi, a mini camera for the AI to take and analyze images, and Legos bricks. Consider it Numi v2.

The goal is to build a coin-sorting robot that uses AI to intelligently sort coins. Imagine a reverse Coinstar that spits back out valuable coins.

My friends working at coin shops lament about all the bulk coins coming in that they don't have time to sort. Such as wheat cents and silver world coins. Which is a bummer because they're leaving a bunch of money on the table.

I'm starting with wheat cents, but the goal is to work towards sorting other US coins, silver world coins, and eventually identifying varieties & errors.

Attached are images of the initial designs I built using Lego Studio Designer. I'll be building the physical prototype over the next few weeks.


What would you want out of a coin-sorting machine? How could this machine help you or your shop?

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  • PeakRarities
    PeakRarities Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2024 2:12PM
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    If I had a shop, I would absolutely love a coin sorting machine. I don't have a shop, so I can't give you any actual feedback as to what it would need to do 🙃.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
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  • erwindoc
    erwindoc Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If you had the volume to justify the purchase of a machine like that, Im sure it would be worth it.

  • ColoradoCoinGuy
    ColoradoCoinGuy Posts: 264 ✭✭✭
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    Ideas to add. Using Lincoln cents as an example. Load in the dates/mm you want to sort for. Example 1909-S VDB, 1909-S, 1914-D, 1922. Have the machine sort through the thousands of cents feed into it, spitting out the desired dates. The rest fall into the reject bin and are also counted. Even though you say AI grading may not ever happen, you still need some way to determine if a coin is say XF or better, as some early Lincolns, say 1912-D, are worth keeping if XF or higher. These also would need to be sorted out.
    Also as @erwindoc eluded to, you need to be able to sell a machine like this pretty cheap, as most LCS might not have the volume to make this machine worth it.

    Not trying to hijack your thread, I think AI grading will eventually come to pass, especially for grading circulated coins.

    Keep up the good work, Justin.

    Member of LSCC, EAC, Fly-In Club, BCCS
    Life member of ANA
  • AlbumNerd
    AlbumNerd Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2024 8:19PM
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    Work on the Numi v2.0 prototype is going strong. I'm still waiting on a few remaining Lego pieces, but it's coming together. It was fun bringing this to my local coin club tonight to get feedback.


  • DelawareDoons
    DelawareDoons Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    For what it's worth, something similar has been done. There's a reason wheat cent bags were running up near $250+ a few years back... Dude built a machine that would sort out the better dates. Drove the whole market on bulk wheats up. IIRC he went bankrupt because he couldn't sell his leftovers fast enough since everybody knew they were trash and he stopped finding enough good stuff to make it worth the premiums.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • ColoradoCoinGuy
    ColoradoCoinGuy Posts: 264 ✭✭✭
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    @AlbumNerd idea is to sell these to coin shops so they can use it so sort through all the Lincoln Wheaties they buy over the counter. You would be supprised at how many Whitman albums have the wrong cents in the wrong holes. Employees don't have the time to check out each book for keys that are in the wrong hole. Same goes for "junk" silver that is coming in now in bags as silver prices rise. A lot of these haven't been searched for keys and doing a $300 bag of Mercs by hand is not economical. If he can make one of these machine to sell for a low cost, he might just have something.

    Thanks for bringing it in to the club.

    Member of LSCC, EAC, Fly-In Club, BCCS
    Life member of ANA
  • AlbumNerd
    AlbumNerd Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭
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    @DelawareDoons said:
    For what it's worth, something similar has been done. There's a reason wheat cent bags were running up near $250+ a few years back... Dude built a machine that would sort out the better dates. Drove the whole market on bulk wheats up. IIRC he went bankrupt because he couldn't sell his leftovers fast enough since everybody knew they were trash and he stopped finding enough good stuff to make it worth the premiums.

    Whoa! Do you know the name of the guy or his product? I'd love to learn more

  • World67
    World67 Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • tcollects
    tcollects Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    this is amazing, I'm interested in your progress

  • abbyme24
    abbyme24 Posts: 174 ✭✭✭✭
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    Can't really add much from a discussion or technical standpoint here but just want to say I am super impressed with what you are doing!!

  • yosclimber
    yosclimber Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 10, 2024 10:14AM
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    It looks like a fun project to play around with, especially since you like Legos.

    I believe some of the long term goals are much more difficult than you can do with Legos.

    • selecting one coin from bin and placing on conveyor belt for photos & IDs
    • stapling a coin into a 2x2; this would include rotating the coin before doing this

    This means there would be lots of human handling involved.
    And in this process, the human might as well skip the machine and identify the coin faster and more accurately than your machine can.

    And @DelawareDoons already explained why the economics for pulling better dates from bulk wheat cents did not work,
    even though a guy was able to build an accurate machine to do it.

  • yosclimber
    yosclimber Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @DelawareDoons said:
    For what it's worth, something similar has been done. There's a reason wheat cent bags were running up near $250+ a few years back... Dude built a machine that would sort out the better dates. Drove the whole market on bulk wheats up. IIRC he went bankrupt because he couldn't sell his leftovers fast enough since everybody knew they were trash and he stopped finding enough good stuff to make it worth the premiums.

    Was Tim Rathjen the guy who did this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7okDtRRCcY
    https://coinauctionshelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23904

  • hummingbird_coins
    hummingbird_coins Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @yosclimber said:

    @DelawareDoons said:
    For what it's worth, something similar has been done. There's a reason wheat cent bags were running up near $250+ a few years back... Dude built a machine that would sort out the better dates. Drove the whole market on bulk wheats up. IIRC he went bankrupt because he couldn't sell his leftovers fast enough since everybody knew they were trash and he stopped finding enough good stuff to make it worth the premiums.

    Was Tim Rathjen the guy who did this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7okDtRRCcY
    https://coinauctionshelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23904

    That intro is so cringe.

    Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
    Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled

  • AlbumNerd
    AlbumNerd Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭
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    @yosclimber said:
    It looks like a fun project to play around with, especially since you like Legos.

    I believe some of the long term goals are much more difficult than you can do with Legos.

    • selecting one coin from bin and placing on conveyor belt for photos & IDs
    • stapling a coin into a 2x2; this would include rotating the coin before doing this

    This means there would be lots of human handling involved.
    And in this process, the human might as well skip the machine and identify the coin faster and more accurately than your machine can.

    And @DelawareDoons already explained why the economics for pulling better dates from bulk wheat cents did not work,
    even though a guy was able to build an accurate machine to do it.

    Legos are fun and versatile, but I'm hitting the practical limits that you mention. The way I'm thinking about this is to use Lego technic parts to build a proof of concept.

    If I can pull out off, even in a suboptimal way, I can justify to myself getting a 3D printer and printing custom parts.

    My definition of success is if I can run my prototype and generate a personal profit sorting out coins :)

  • gumby1234
    gumby1234 Posts: 5,901 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think sorting by hand is much quicker and it doesn't cost you 1 cent per coin. Sometimes I sort coins while watching a movie.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • AlbumNerd
    AlbumNerd Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭
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    @gumby1234 said:
    I think sorting by hand is much quicker and it doesn't cost you 1 cent per coin. Sometimes I sort coins while watching a movie.

    One of the things I'm looking to talking about with dealers at Summer FUN is to see how the economics of automated sorting would work.

    One way to reduce cost is to lease the machine rather than sell. That way shops don't have to have a large up front cost.

    I also wonder if the time saved would make it worth it. Assuming minimum wage is $15 an hour, that my machine can sort 400 coins an hour, as well as costing 1 cent per coin analyzed [so $4 an hour].

    What kinds of coins sorted out would pull out at least $4?

    Are dealers even paying for employees to sort coins?

    If so, what coins are those employees sorting?

    Even if Numi can sort 10,000 coins a day, do coin shops even have that many coins to sort through?

  • AlbumNerd
    AlbumNerd Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2024 1:46PM
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    I showed off my latest build of Numi at yesterday's Denver Coin Club meeting



    Latest Changes [As of 7/26/2024]

    • Optimized cameras for better focus

    • Fully built out the second design iteration after getting all needed Lego parts

    • Added LEDs for lighting

    • Updated code to handle the entire identification and sorting flow [Capture images, send images and prompt to AI model, move coins to correct position for sorting]

    • Migrated AI models from GPT-4o to Gemini Flash 1.5

    Current results

    • Lighting from LEDs are too weak, yielding inaccurate results

    • Cameras work

    • Motors for moving the coins beneath the cameras work, but the final motor for sorting is buggy. Needs to be fixed

    • Time needed for analysis improved from an average of 30 seconds per coin to 10 seconds

    • The Gemini Flash 1.5 AI model is shockingly accurate and blazing fast

    Upcoming Changes

    • Add high powered lights to brighten up coin photos

    • Add and program a coin hopper to fully automate the sorting process

    • Goal is to optimize the machine to sort 100 coins in a row with no issues. Get Numi ready in time to show off at the Denver Coin Club Show happening in mid-August. [I got a table!]

    My hope is to get Numi into a good enough state that I can challenge attendees at the show if they can sort 100 wheat cents faster than Numi. If they can, they get a coin prize. Should be a fun way to get young numismatists engaged.

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