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PSA Grader Notes…
mintonlypls
Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just received an email that PSA for the first time in its history will include grader notes on how a grade was determined! Is this accountability…it states the grader notes are the result of popular demand on why a grade is. This feature is definitely a step in the right direction by PSA…a welcome, positive change! Will PSA review submissions include grader notes?
mint_only_pls
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I like it .. not sure why it is only for premium tiers ... seems like it would not be that hard to roll out across the board
With time…it states lower levels will also include graders notes at no additional charge.
DP
In time ... that's what I don't like .. Heck the registry has essentially been out of service for a year
How are these notes presented to the submitter and eventually a future buyer? Are they available in the cert verification system? So I look at a card in 2 years to buy that has notes, how could I find the notes….
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
CGC does it for Comics
Get ready for " Spider-Wrinkles under 100x magnification "
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
That is a very good question when looking up a card…and would be valuable, useful information for the potential buyer.
I see it is mentioned in the release notes in the PSA app. So maybe they will show up in the cert verification. Would be nice, but I have a feeling this will only be for the submitter and then not be accessible. Hopefully not though.
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
Read somewhere only accessible to the submitter. Wish there was full transparency when you looked up the cert.
As ole Yoda would say they will be...they will be...may take some time but that is where it is headed...grader notes when you type in cert #...comic grading is like this...
Apparently PSA T&C were adjusted to include language that permits only the submitter to see the notes and to disallow any sharing or reproduction of notes.
For express level and above. So $129 grading on $2500+ value cards. Anything accepted after 6/14 at those levels will have notes.
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
It would be nice if those notes were retroactively made available. I wonder if they kept them before or not. I’m hoping this also provides insight into how many graders might have reviewed a card.
I will brazenly take screen prints and share notes. Hope someone on here will bail me out of prison for breaking the law.
Better start a GoFundMe now! 😀
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
PSA actually did this many years ago when you sent a card in for review. If it didn’t get a bump, they included a note explaining why.
It's what the customer wants by popular demand. Right? There would be no sense in sending in a review that already has grader notes when this feature is active. Although, I could see folks cracking & resubbing to see if there is consistency in grader notes.
Since grading is subjective…the grader notes might not agree except for glaring flaws.
Sounds ok, but a more inclusive description of what is allowable and not allowable in a certain grade would also be helpful.
1) A indention in the cardboard automatically lowers the top grade to a 4
2) A small scratch lowers it to a 7
3) a larger scratch (1/3 inch or whatever) lowers is to a 5.
4) PD - amounts and top grade.
Just showing you the issue doesn't necessarily equate to the answer you desire. It just states their is a problem.
The ultimate problem here again will be lack of consistency between graders and between submissions. This is also where the liability for PSA will be (which is why PSA insists upon ONLY the submitter having access to graders notes, with some sort of penalty if the submitter transmits the graders notes to another buyer). TAG (AI grading ) is a better solution. But TAG is already aware, from the vintage PSA/SGC exemplars they have in there possession, that there is way too much variance between grades/cards to create the algorithm for vintage card AI grading.
So what we have is what we have. A very lucrative hobby built on a house of cards.....
Owner of the card has rights to the grader notes...NO???? Am I wrong????
Interesting point for those that grade through other submitters. Do those companies get to see and keep the data? Looks like no if that PSA comment is correct.
You can put anything you want in your terms and conditions you want whether it’s enforceable or not.
This would not be enforceable. However they could choose to deny future service to any individual(s) who violate their terms and conditions.
What is the issue again for not putting the grader notes with the cert # info???
This is a waste of time. It will slow down the process too. Why do I want to send in a card that is absolutely NM-MT with the tiniest touch on a corner.....and get the card back in a PSA 6 holder with the note "corner wear". Sure, it's not GEM MINT; but it's certainly doesn't go from a 10 to a 6 with a tiny touch. I'm talking about vintage subs. They can can use the reason corner wear for any vintage card. We don't need anything to slow down this process.
Mickey has a valid point and kind relates to my post. That without further documentation of what a 6 or 7 has and doesn't have, the process is kind of moot.
Here is the issue and primarily why I have not submitted cards to PSA in the last few years…. There are wild swings from grader to grader when cards are cracked and resubmitted. I have multiple cards go from. 8 to 10. A 4 to an 8 and 7 to 9 on key cards from the 70s and 80s. Do to the dramatic rise in cost it stopped making sense to me. I now just buy the card in the grade I want.
I was tired of dealing with cards being damaged at PSA or shockingly bad grades, at $8-10 a card I could deal with it. Now it is a hard pass for me
I’m still interested in seeing how it ends up working before I dismiss it. I don’t know that it should add time assuming this is just presentation of something they’re already doing. It could end up going a long way in making the process appear less arcane.
I had about 10% of my cards damaged in the most recent orders.
The damage comment is a serious consideration.
PSA released an example.
I can't imagine the graders have already been documenting grader notes. It has to add time from just visualizing the flaws to having to note and then document the flaws.
I'd like to see that 1979 PSA 10 Eckersley grader notes:
Corners
Bottom right front wear
Surface
Print dots front top border
Centering
Left/Right front, Tilt
4SC
Don't show these notes to anyone. Congrats on your 10!
4SC
Don't show these notes to anyone. Congrats on your 10!
LOL!!!
Since grading is subjective and an opinion the complaints will not cease.
The curse of knowledge is very much in play right now.
You guys are all very sharp and very good at grading cards. But not everyone who subs their cards is and if we pretend that it’s a 50-50 ratio of newbs to veterans that submit their cards, then half the population views this as a massive upgrade in service. Just think of all the people who show up to the boards for the first time with a card they thought was mint and are shocked to find out that it came back in a holder numbered below 9 or 10 when it’s quite clear that it never had a shot from the jump to the veteran posters here.
So I think if you’ve posted in this thread, this program is probably not a help to you, specifically. But I imagine that there’s a large enough group of folks (and likely will be in perpetuity) who will appreciate this addition to the end of the service.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I think the grader notes are more geared to ultra-modern where there is minute differences between an 8-10. They all look like 10s to my vintage lens. But I think it would be more helpful to admit there is a different grading standard and publish it.
Where they are helpful for Vintage is on surface wrinkles and other surface issues that can be hard to see through the holder.
I guess what I meant when I said “seeing how it ends up working” is. … I am curious to see whether the notes I start receiving on my submissions will be useful to me. Will they inform my process to improve the accuracy of my expectations or will they be too ambiguous to be useful.
For example. A note which specifies that there is a surface scratch in a particular location of a card where I could look and say “oops I missed that” vs a note which merely states “surface”. So I guess I’m waiting to see it in practice before I throw my hands up in despair.
I don’t have a lot of faith but until I see it it’s hard for me to outright dismiss this.
100% correct. But we can all agree that the Eckersley in this post is not a 10. So maybe there won't be a consensus on the real grade of the Eckersley but PSA 9 and PSA 10 should be eliminated unanimously. If it's an 8 or 7 or 6 or lower, won't matter because an 8 or lower would be worth $25 to nothing.
OOPS the Eckersley isn't posted here. But I combined the Eck Post with this post. Sorry.
I tend to agree with most of the grades I get back, but a report for the outliers that seem way too low will be interesting to read.
I still think the grading process is way too subjective for grading notes to even have any value. If a card is a 7-9 then I think it could potentially swing within those depending on condition, how flaws are valued and who's doing the grading. I don't need a vague report telling me that, but it will be interesting for those that crack and resub.
If it creates a situation where the graders are more responsible for how they grade then I'm all for it, because it feels too arbitrary now.
My vintage sub just popped. I dont need graders notes to see why I got a PSA 7 or less. What I do need are glasses. Now a PSA 8 instead of better if its not obvious, that'd be cool
what were your grades?
grader notes will likely be utilized for grades lower than 8...in comics they seemingly mostly don't put any notes on high graded items....this all will depend on how the company sets its guidelines for their graders...
140 card sub:
27 PSA Mint 9 with about 10 from 75 Topps/Topps Mini
3 Gem Mint 10 75 O-Pee-Chee Commons
I was going to wait but cheated at the top & bottom of the sub. I'd say I expected many PSA 9s from about 100. The last 40 cards were from 77 Topps Mexican Football and 66 Donruss Green Hornet. Though I did hit a PSA 9 from Green Hornet, they weren't expected to be very high with the centering. I'd say they are pretty consistent overall particuarly with centering. So we shall see what happens when I gret them delivered. No grader notes on these
I support this. I had a few higher fee level orders receive stickers on the holder with notes on why the grade was assigned. I didn't always agree with their assessment but in a few cases, they did point out flaws I didn't notice. It's a step in the right direction.