Green stuff on Reale...

spyglassdesign · May 26, 2024 8:30AM

What could the green stuff and the dark stuff around the rims be? Is this easily conservable (ie a quick acetone bath maybe?), or should this be sent for conservation?

Thanks!

Davidk7 · May 26, 2024 8:33AM

The green is PVC, the black looks like environmental damage, but hard to tell from pics. I'd start with acetone and see what happens.

PerryHall · May 26, 2024 8:41AM

@Davidk7 said:
The green is PVC, the black looks like environmental damage, but hard to tell from pics. I'd start with acetone and see what happens.

Agree with trying acetone. If that doesn't work, you can always send it to one of the major grading services to get it professionally conserved.

spyglassdesign · May 26, 2024 8:44AM

Acetone will remove pvc typically?

Davidk7 · May 26, 2024 8:51AM

Yes, acetone will remove PVC. However you might need to prod with something to remove all of the PVC, and the coin might have pitting underneath if the PVC has eaten into the metal.

Walkerguy21D · May 26, 2024 10:02AM

DelawareDoons · May 26, 2024 10:06AM

Soak it in acetone, and if its still on there, just gently roll a qtip over the areas with pvc. Should come right off. Don't stop until the qtip stops turning green. Might have to use a couple tho this one doesn't look too bad, so one or two should be all you need, esp if you soak first.

Davidk7 · May 26, 2024 10:42AM

@Walkerguy21D said:

@Davidk7 said:
Yes, acetone will remove PVC. However you might need to prod with something to remove all of the PVC, and the coin might have pitting underneath if the PVC has eaten into the metal.

Prod with something soft, like a toothpick or rose thorn….

Yeah good info, forgot to mention that it should be soft!

spyglassdesign · May 26, 2024 11:04AM

Thanks for the info. I expect to get it next week. I'll let you know how it goes!

PillarDollarCollector · May 26, 2024 11:31AM

Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

spyglassdesign · May 26, 2024 11:35AM

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

Already have a Mason jar just for that purpose. I have a metal strainer so the coin won't touch the glass and can be fully submerged.

Thanks for the tips!

PillarDollarCollector · May 26, 2024 11:37AM

@spyglassdesign said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

Already have a Mason jar just for that purpose. I have a metal strainer so the coin won't touch the glass and can be fully submerged.

Thanks for the tips!

Acetone is easy to find at any pharmacy (nail section) make sure it is 100% pure. Not 99% or 95% or whatever. I just put enough so the coin is fully submerged no need to fill the whole jar up it is a waste.

PillarDollarCollector · May 26, 2024 11:40AM

And no the PVC will never return if done properly unless it comes in contact with PVC again. The 2 by 2 Mylars cardboard holders are 100% PVC free.

Cranium_Basher73 · May 26, 2024 12:01PM

You want Rustoleum 333.
100% acetone. I use it everyday at work. You can get it at Home Depot.

spyglassdesign · May 26, 2024 12:22PM

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@spyglassdesign said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

Already have a Mason jar just for that purpose. I have a metal strainer so the coin won't touch the glass and can be fully submerged.

Thanks for the tips!

Acetone is easy to find at any pharmacy (nail section) make sure it is 100% pure. Not 99% or 95% or whatever. I just put enough so the coin is fully submerged no need to fill the whole jar up it is a waste.

Yeah I have some 100% acetone thanks!

OAKSTAR · May 26, 2024 2:10PM

The verdigris problem looks very doable. Not sure about the black stuff around the rim. Whatever it is, it could be baked into the surface. Whatever you decide to do, show us the after results.

spyglassdesign · May 26, 2024 2:13PM

@OAKSTAR said:
The verdigris problem looks very doable. Not sure about the black stuff around the rim. Whatever it is, it could be baked into the surface. Whatever you decide to do, show us the after results.

Will do. I'll take some before and after!

Vasanti · May 26, 2024 4:49PM

@spyglassdesign said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

Already have a Mason jar just for that purpose. I have a metal strainer so the coin won't touch the glass and can be fully submerged.

Thanks for the tips!

I use XL Pyrex Petri dishes. They are all glass with a glass lid and they are shallow so it makes dealing with the coins easier.

PillarDollarCollector · May 26, 2024 4:54PM

@Vasanti said:

@spyglassdesign said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

Already have a Mason jar just for that purpose. I have a metal strainer so the coin won't touch the glass and can be fully submerged.

Thanks for the tips!

I use XL Pyrex Petri dishes. They are all glass with a glass lid and they are shallow so it makes dealing with the coins easier.

I also have scientific glass jars with glass lids they sell them on Amazon takes very little acetone but is only good for dimes, nickels maybe quarters.

spyglassdesign · May 26, 2024 4:56PM

@Vasanti said:

@spyglassdesign said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

Already have a Mason jar just for that purpose. I have a metal strainer so the coin won't touch the glass and can be fully submerged.

Thanks for the tips!

I use XL Pyrex Petri dishes. They are all glass with a glass lid and they are shallow so it makes dealing with the coins easier.

Do you lay the coin flat on the bottom? Seems like you'd want it suspended if possible?

Vasanti · May 26, 2024 5:00PM

@spyglassdesign said:

@Vasanti said:

@spyglassdesign said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

Already have a Mason jar just for that purpose. I have a metal strainer so the coin won't touch the glass and can be fully submerged.

Thanks for the tips!

I use XL Pyrex Petri dishes. They are all glass with a glass lid and they are shallow so it makes dealing with the coins easier.

Do you lay the coin flat on the bottom? Seems like you'd want it suspended if possible?

I lay it flat and then flip it at some point.

Vasanti · May 26, 2024 5:02PM

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@Vasanti said:

@spyglassdesign said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

Already have a Mason jar just for that purpose. I have a metal strainer so the coin won't touch the glass and can be fully submerged.

Thanks for the tips!

I use XL Pyrex Petri dishes. They are all glass with a glass lid and they are shallow so it makes dealing with the coins easier.

I also have scientific glass jars with glass lids they sell them on Amazon takes very little acetone but is only good for dimes, nickels maybe quarters.

These are almost 6” wide. Plenty big for large coins.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B073HM4NWR?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

TomB · May 26, 2024 5:16PM

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Acetone bath 100% pure for 1-2 hours (some say 30 minutes is enough I rather go the extra mile) on each side new acetone each side and rinse with fresh acetone after. Use glass container with 100% metal lid (no inner plastics). Wipe the container afterwards with fresh acetone for future use. Let the old acetone evaporate outside with a lid it will go very fast. I do not let it go down my drains since my pipes are PVC plastic. Easy enough to find mason jars with metal lids.

There is no need to evaporate off the acetone. You may simply just flush the container with water and wash it down your drain. Acetone and water are infinitely miscible (that is, they mix together completely no matter what the concentration of each) and this means that if you flush with water you will not damage PVC piping.

PillarDollarCollector · May 26, 2024 5:45PM

On Amazon 14$ Canadian for a set of 2 so about 10$ US. I would say they are good up to quarters.

Baluue Chemistry Weighing Bottle Weighing Flask 2pcs Experiment Weighing Bottle Labs Weighing Bottle with Lid Glass Weighing Holder Weighing Bottles Borosilicate Glass Weighing Bottle

PillarDollarCollector · May 26, 2024 5:47PM

lermish · May 26, 2024 6:06PM

Just as a counterpoint because I have a little experience with these coins and have experimented along with friends...

If it's PVC, everyone is spot on, acetone is an easy fix.

If it's hard, it is most likely pseudomalachite which is extraordinarily difficult to remove without damaging the coin. I could copy and past someone else's chemistry but I can't explain the science. From what I understand, it's basically crystallized verdigris. Best bet is a 1-2 day vinegar soak but that can be hit or miss.

Baylor8670 · May 26, 2024 7:39PM

.> @PillarDollarCollector said:

The bottle at https://www.eiscolabs.com/collections/weighing-bottles/products/ch0198d has a 1.75" (44.4 mm) diameter at the opening so it should be big enough for silver dollars, double eagles, etc.

Available for sale here - https://www.labproservices.com/buy-weighing-bottle-low-form-borosilicate-glass-with-interchangeable-ground-stopper-cap-50ml-od-50-ch0198d-ea.html.

spyglassdesign · May 26, 2024 7:43PM

@lermish said:
Just as a counterpoint because I have a little experience with these coins and have experimented along with friends...

If it's PVC, everyone is spot on, acetone is an easy fix.

If it's hard, it is most likely pseudomalachite which is extraordinarily difficult to remove without damaging the coin. I could copy and past someone else's chemistry but I can't explain the science. From what I understand, it's basically crystallized verdigris. Best bet is a 1-2 day vinegar soak but that can be hit or miss.

Thanks. The stuff on the reverse looks fairly light and surface based but the stuff around the rims could be a bigger issue I think.

Connecticoin · June 1, 2024 1:13PM

@Cranium_Basher73 said:
You want Rustoleum 333.
100% acetone. I use it everyday at work. You can get it at Home Depot.

Is the Rustoleum 333 preferable the the “kleen strip” acetone from the paint section (which is supposedly pure)?

Cranium_Basher73 · June 1, 2024 2:08PM

@Connecticoin said:

@Cranium_Basher73 said:
You want Rustoleum 333.
100% acetone. I use it everyday at work. You can get it at Home Depot.

Is the Rustoleum 333 preferable the the “kleen strip” acetone from the paint section (which is supposedly pure)?

I work in aerospace. So we have to use the real stuff. I don't know about the kleen strip.

spyglassdesign · June 1, 2024 2:41PM

Unfortunately the delivery is delayed. I should get it by Monday hopefully and I will provide high res images before, and after if I make any attempts on it.

Connecticoin · June 1, 2024 7:36PM

@Cranium_Basher73 said:

@Connecticoin said:

@Cranium_Basher73 said:
You want Rustoleum 333.
100% acetone. I use it everyday at work. You can get it at Home Depot.

Is the Rustoleum 333 preferable the the “kleen strip” acetone from the paint section (which is supposedly pure)?

I work in aerospace. So we have to use the real stuff. I don't know about the kleen strip.

The Rustoleum 333 costs about $60 a gallon vs $22 for kleen strip. Maybe buy the expensive stuff for more valuable coins.

Married2Coins · June 2, 2024 6:55AM

There must be something NCS uses. I cannot believe they use Rustoleum or Navel Jelly on coins but who knows. Don't knock it if you have not tried it. If a member does, please post a "before" and "after" to see if the surface gets etched.

spyglassdesign · June 6, 2024 4:13PM

Before:

After an acetone soak (about 30 minutes)

As you can see the green stuff is all gone. Unfortunately I have no idea what the black stuff is. I tried carefully with a cotton swap to see if the black stuff would come loose but went as far as I was comfortable. I think I'd rather let professionals look at it from this point on than do much else with it. It's a definite improvement!

OAKSTAR · June 6, 2024 4:18PM

Much better! I guess that black stuff is baked into the surface.

PillarDollarCollector · June 6, 2024 4:20PM

Much better leave that black stuff alone it will not damage your coin. What matters is the PVC is gone.

Sapyx · June 6, 2024 4:50PM

The black deposits are not from PVC, or other recent improper storage, but rather from some other event in this coin's 200+ year history. Perhaps fire damage; perhaps shipwreck corrosion. Harsh chemicals may remove it, but will also strip away the toning and leave behind an "obviously cleaned coin". Personally, I don't think these small black patches detract too much from the coin's appearance.

dcarr · June 6, 2024 5:56PM

@Sapyx said:
The black deposits are not from PVC, or other recent improper storage, but rather from some other event in this coin's 200+ year history. Perhaps fire damage; perhaps shipwreck corrosion. Harsh chemicals may remove it, but will also strip away the toning and leave behind an "obviously cleaned coin". Personally, I don't think these small black patches detract too much from the coin's appearance.

The coin already has a somewhat cleaned appearance, but is still a nice one.
I don't think "dipping" it would negatively impact it.

Sapyx · June 6, 2024 6:01PM

The problem is, I don't think this kind of thick black gunk will go away with a "light dip". I think to make it go away completely, you'd need to overdip it.

dcarr · June 6, 2024 6:05PM

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Much better leave that black stuff alone it will not damage your coin. What matters is the PVC is gone.

The green might not have been from PVC.
It was probably the green wax-like substance that can accumulate on coin when stored for a long time in an old leather pouch. It will not harm the coin, but is somewhat unsightly and often mistaken for verdigris.

Numerous past reports that a long soak in olive oil have miraculously eliminated verdigris from copper coins are not entirely accurate. The olive oil (or any oil) will temporarily mitigate the appearance of verdigris, until the oil evaporates. The cases where olive oil did a miraculous job are most likely cases where there was no verdigris in the first place, and what the oil actually did was dissolve green wax deposits.

PillarDollarCollector · June 6, 2024 6:40PM

@dcarr said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Much better leave that black stuff alone it will not damage your coin. What matters is the PVC is gone.

The green might not have been from PVC.
It was probably the green wax-like substance that can accumulate on coin when stored for a long time in an old leather pouch. It will not harm the coin, but is somewhat unsightly and often mistaken for verdigris.

Numerous past reports that a long soak in olive oil have miraculously eliminated verdigris from copper coins are not entirely accurate. The olive oil (or any oil) will temporarily mitigate the appearance of verdigris, until the oil evaporates. The cases where olive oil did a miraculous job are most likely cases where there was no verdigris in the first place, and what the oil actually did was dissolve green wax deposits.

Whatever it was it is now gone.

Green stuff on Reale...

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