Some questions about slabbed inherited coins …
WyntersGirl
Posts: 27 ✭✭✭
Hello all - this is my first post. My Grandpa was a gold and coin trader and passed away decades ago. My Grandma passed away recently and in her effects I found a large sealed envelope labeled with my name. There were a bunch of sentimental coins inside (birth year stuff, regular silver dollars, etc.) as well as two slabbed coins. I don’t know the first thing about coins so I put the envelope aside so I could deal with other, more pressing things, but something kept bringing my mind back to the coins. I’ve done some cursory research (online, bought and am acquainting myself with the “Red Book”) and I think I might be holding something truly special. I know everyone who finds coins hidden in personal affects thinks this, but let me know what you all think … (even if they aren’t special, I think they are gorgeous and I plan on saving them and starting a coin collection with my kiddos)!
Comments
I tried to post the coin images in order, but it seems as if I was unsuccessful … here’s a smaller image containing just the slabbed front and back of the two coins:
Wow
Over 50,000 in value. Nice grandparents!
Those are definitely way better than the usual inherited coins.
Very nice of Grandma to save those for you.
The 1895 $2.5 has an unusual look. Normally these are very reflective.
The NGC Price Guide indicates that the retail price for the 1895 $2.5 PF 64 CAM is $10,500
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/united-states/gold-quarter-eagles/57/
while the 1911 $5 PF 65 retails for $52,500
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/united-states/gold-half-eagles/65/
You can look at the last few days of posts on this board to see other people who thought that. Everyone thinks that. Almost everyone is seriously confused.
It's a pleasure to see an occasional person who's absolutely on target.
Bad news first: The 1895 piece is worth less than $10,000.
Better news: The 1911 piece is worth more. By a lot!
I noticed this myself. I wonder if it could be due to improper or humid storage … (I don’t have the coins on hand right now to examine or to take better pictures). Things have been insane in my life or I would have already had someone look at them, but for now I have them in a safety deposit box. I plan on taking them to a coin shop that did business with my Grandpa many, many years ago.
Howdy and welcome.
Please accept my condolences on the passing of your grandparents. The 1895 $2.5 (quarter eagle) appears to have had something applied to it, unless what appears to be schmutz on the surfaces are really just odd reflections. This may have been done to attempt to get the coin into a CAM or DCAM holder (UCAM at NGC). However, the 1911 $5 (half eagle) looks to be problem-free.
A problem-free 1895 PF64 CAM quarter eagle is difficult to pin an exact number on, but an NGC PF65CAM sold for about $25k in 2009 while a few PF66CAM coins have sold for $29-31k. The surfaces of this coin will go a long way to determining its value and even if it stays as a CAM. For the 1911 PF65 you are likely looking at something closer to $40k, but again the auction data is scant. Both coins had original proof mintages of fewer than 150-pieces.
I assume everything in your post is truthful and, if so, this would be one of the best "found" coin posts we have had on these boards. You may want to reach out to someone like @MFeld, who works for Heritage Auctions or @ianrussell, an owner of Great Collections Auctions if you choose to sell and go through an auction house. There are also a handful of expert dealers and/or collectors on these boards who could help with a direct sale, as well. Otherwise, sit back and learn about the coins and have fun owning them.
Good luck!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I appreciate the input! I plan on keeping them as I have fond memories of my Grandpa taking me downtown on errands and occasionally to the coin shops! I hope my kids and I can start an amazing new hobby with these as our capstones
Most coin shops won't know what proof gold should look like. They tend to just deal in bullion value coins.
But some are good.
If you want to sell them, Great Collections (auction) is one possible good choice.
https://www.greatcollections.com/
Thank you for the good advice! I will only ever sell them if I am in dire need of money. Right now I am just enjoying them and hopefully, so will my kids
Thank you very much. My Grandpa was a LOT older than my Grandma, and both were well into their 90’s when they passed (albeit decades apart). I agree that it looks like something is … weird … about the 1895 coin’s surface! I’ll get it out of the SDB soon and see if it’s the PHOTO or if it is, indeed, the actual surface of the coin.
I am tickled that my research wasn’t too far off in never-never land! I thought these appeared to be unusual and rare coins, but since I know nothing about coins AT ALL I just wasn’t sure.
Thank you for the good information and great advice! These last couple of years have been the worst of my life and it really made my night to know that my found coins are the treasures I suspected they might be! I look forward to learning more about coins here
Great inheritance, and I’m glad you plan on holding on to them.
But I strongly suggest that you get expert advice from NGC on the state of the 1895, and get it professionally conserved/restored.
Welcome to the forum and please accept my condolences for the recent loss of your grandmother.
As has been pointed out, the two coins you posted are quite valuable.
The 1911 Matte Proof $5 appears to be a nice, original example. The 1895 Liberty $2.50 looks like it was altered prior to submission for grading, with the alteration having deteriorated sometime later. While it would be costly, at some point, you might want to consider having it professionally conserved. I believe it would be worth the cost.
Please feel free to let the forum know if you have any additional questions and enjoy your special keepsakes!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My condolences for your loss.
You inherited a pair of fantastic coins, the kind of coins that get collectors, professionals and specialists alike excited.
I'll back up the others and tell you that the 1895 $2.50 needs restoration done by NGC's restoration arm, NCS. The hazy film you see on it was applied to mask the surfaces and likely in an effort to minimize hairlines, which greatly affect the grade of proof coins. While I wouldn't call it urgent, sooner is better than later when it comes to stuff like this.
I'd estimate the value of the 1895 $2.50 around $10,000, and the 1911 $5 at approximately $37,500, as they sit. Post-restoration, if the grade of the 1895 jumps to a 65CAM, you're looking at a significant bump in value. I'd estimate a 65CAM around $16,000.
If you need help figuring out how to proceed with the restoration through NGC/NCS, I'll gladly help you out. I work for Stacks Bowers Galleries, the nations oldest rare coin auctioneer, and we work pretty frequently with NGC/NCS, and are one of their larger clients. While I'm not sure why @TomB didn't mention our firm, I can assure you that our reputation is above reproach.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Should you decide to keep them, please obtain insurance for them. Stuff happens. Find out from your insurance company who they would accept as an appraiser, perhaps NGC would suffice. If not, then realize the shipping and insurance cost for such expensive items. Many things to consider. Best wishes and sorry for your loss. They appear to have been caring Grandparents.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
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You certainly had some sophisticated collectors in your family! Welcome to the forum!
P.S. That might be the second best first post I've ever seen.
God Bless, CRHer700
Do unto others what you expect to be done to you.
Wow, great coins, particularly the 1911! If you're interested in the hobby, the next thing would be to buy some books to learn the history of the coins. This is a good book for indian gold.
As stated above. NGC has a great conservation department that would address the issues on the one coin. I would certainly consider having it conserved.
bob
+1
The surfaces may very well get worse over time.
Yes I agree with others here. I'd find an NGC authorized dealer to get the NGC coin conserved; shipped registered insured. NGC permits you to declare value so you don't necessarily need to pay the current retail pricing on it with the four percent they charge to conserve it. I'd declare value around $5K because it is impossible to know what it's worth until they conserve and re-grade it, but you'll pay several hundred dollars regardless to get it conserved and regraded. https://www.ngccoin.com/submit/services-fees/ncs-conservation/#:~:text=NCS Conservation Tiers,-Max.&text=All coins.,) ($25 minimum fee).
On the proof Indian $5 I'd run it through cac to try to get it approved there to start on the process to get top value.
My condolences on your loss.
Fantastic coins! Proof classic gold is a rarity in any form, so congratulations! Your coins really are special. Most of the help I could give is stated above, but perhaps this inheritance gets you interested in coins in some way.
Coin Photographer.
My condolences on the recent passing of your grandma.
Your grandparents had some awesome pieces for sure. These pieces would be pride of most peoples collection. I recommend restoration on the 1895 as others have already stated.
Thanks for sharing them and your story. They are by far the best pieces that I have seen posted here as an inheritance.
Again, sorry for your loss, but congrats on some great pieces left to you by your grandparents.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
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Here’s what you might do.
Learn everything you can about numismatics.
You have a better start than most.
Based on what various dates of Proof 64 Cameo $2.50 Liberty's have sold for, $5000 is too low for a realistic insurance value. I'd insure the coin for a minimum of $7000. The 1911 is a $5, not a $2.50.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree about insurance, you want if anything to over-insure it. The question is if you undervalue it for the NGC conservation will that be a problem? One of the NGC pros said they let the submitter assign a value and then NCS will charge 4% of that. Clearly submitters have paid too much especially if the coin turns out to be damaged/environmental damage. I hope that is not the case, but if it is an impaired coin NGC may or may not honor a guarantee/warranty claim.
Cool coins! I love your grandparents. They obviously had style. What a truly special inheritance.
Just getting a Red Book was the smartest move you’ve made. The second was coming here. You are light years ahead of what most people would do in this situation!
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
Incredible coins!
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My condolences on the recent loss of your grandmother...
As many of the top numismatists in the field have already stated, your grandparents left you something we dont often see... thanks for sharing!
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Condolences on the passing of your grandmother, I hope they had a long,happy and healthy life
Enjoy the coins but do as others have said, get the 1895 looked at
BTW
Welcome to the forum
Mike
My Indians
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Thank you and a huge thank you to all who are offering me advice and guidance. I look at these coins and remind myself that I have been chosen as their steward in the here-and-now, and will absolutely do everything that I can to preserve them and protect them, including having them (or just the 1895 $2.50) conserved so that they/it is preserved for the numismatists of the future. I am simply but one in (what I hope will be) a LONG line of “owners”, and preservation of these pieces is not only important, but the RIGHT thing to do. I am currently awaiting my Grandma’s estate to go through probate, but will have the funds to make sure these coins are documented, conserved and protected very soon (fingers crossed!). When I procure the funds, I will reach out to this board to make sure I am taking the appropriate next steps!
Wow! As you can see by my post, I am almost never speechless … but here we are …
Thank you kindly. I WILL reach out if ever I need to find a reputable way to sell these coins, but my sincerest wish is to parlay this incredible gift into a fun and educational hobby for myself and my kids! I will most definitely reach back out when I am ready to proceed with conservation/restoration, as I am a complete novice and want to make sure I don’t make a fatal error with either one of these coins.
Wow! Your grandparents had great tastes. These would be centerpieces for many collectors and what a way to start collecting!
Family heirlooms are wonderful treasures to share with your family and stories of your grandparents that go with these coins. I'd keep them too.
Thanks for sharing!
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I will definitely get them insured. I need to research more, but would this be something I would do through Hugh Woods? I have been lurking here for a bit, trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can!
Just bought a copy! I can’t wait to read it and thank you for the recommendation!
Hugh Wood would be mainly for long term dealers and collectors. On these a safe deposit box would be the way to go at your bank; when you ship them once you've decided on a course of action registered/insured should cover shipping. I'd think that Mark Feld would be a top choice for marketing them, but maybe you need a nearby dealer with top credentials who can send the impaired coin to NGC for their conservation. You could of course do that yourself if you open a collector account with them too.
Hugh Wood, Inc (HWI) is, in my opinion, amongst the gold standard for numismatic insurance. The insurance is incredibly reasonable in price, is easy to obtain, requires very little documentation and can be customized for your own purposes. If I recall correctly, they require you to be a member of the ANA (American Numismatic Association) in order to offer numismatic insurance, but that is a trivial extra expense. I have had HWI insurance for decades, as have many other dealers and serious collectors, and I have not read anything negative about them in that time.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Reconciling the two pieces of advice: if you’re serious about building a collection and want to enjoy messing with your coins, insurance is the way to go; if you just want to hold onto the two coins, a safe deposit box may be more economical. The ANA provides a number of benefits for collectors. I haven’t used a box for decades, but I also have a substantial safe and a central alarm system, along with insurance. ANA Life Member for 40 years.
Do you mind saying where (in general—state or nearest big city—no need to be super specific) you live? While folks have rightly talked about going to a dealer who can help ship the quarter eagle for conservation, if you live near where one of the big coin shows is held, you may be able to kill two birds with one stone: there will be expert dealers who can give you guidance, and you may be able to drop off the coin with NGC and not need to worry about shipping it.
I do agree that it should be conserved, but if it’s turned in the holder and in its present state no longer warrants its grade, their guarantee may cover the conservation for free. Just make sure they know that no matter what you want the coin back, rather than a check for the value and they then deal with the coin.
With this kind of value and risk, I'd want to try to resolve the issue asap. Having high value coins around plays into the crippling issues of fear, trust and the need to move on with one's life. Inherited tangible assets need to clearly considered in terms of maximizing the financial advantage, and so trusting people who are too wealthy to do anything less than professional would be my objective. I'd want to want to have a clear action plan with no real downside risk or loss. Getting insurance is not quick usually and that can be highly advantageous depending on transactions you're making. Any loss can be a long arduous process and Hugh Wood is highly professional handling them while the usps can put up a lot of hurdles.
I've had good luck dealing with NGC on guarantee issues. With the current delays, I'd want to do an express submission, mark the outside of the box as such such so that it gets processed quickly, then I'd want to communicate with an NGC representative to get updates.
I’m going to try to contact NGC and see what they might suggest regarding the 1895 $2.50.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'd like to add one more thing, which may or may not be obvious to you, but the 1911 half eagle does not appear to need any type of conservation. No way, no how. That coin looks the way it should look, in my experience and from my interpretation of the images. If the 1911 half eagle were sent in for any type of conservation then it would likely be rejected for the work by NGC/NCS or, if they did proceed with work, it would likely come back to you with an appearance that experienced eyes would find negative.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I strongly agree with @TomB.
Additionally, each year of the 1908-1915 Satin (1909-1910) and Matte (1911-1915) Proof gold coinage had its own unique color and appearance. However, over time, many of these gorgeous coins have been altered and their surfaces no longer exhibit their original characteristics. And that’s a shame.
The Proof gold coinage of 1911 happens to be my favorite year. Here’s a portion of a Heritage lot description which touches on what I like so much about 1911 gold Proofs:
“… When examined with a loupe, thousands of tiny, sparkling facets illuminate the surfaces and give the coin its subtle matte effect”. It reminds me of sifting through sand on the beach and seeing all of the tiny sparkles when the sun hits some of the grains of sand just right.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Don't be a one and done, keep coming 🙂
I agree, I hope you become a regular member on here and enjoy the hobby, it’s a great hobby and you have some terrific coins!
What a great way to start!
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Welcome!
I second the suggestion to send the Liberty Head quarter-eagle back to NGC for conservation by their NCS service.
https://www.ngccoin.com/
https://www.ngccoin.com/ncs-conservation/
Hopefully our PCGS sponsors of these forums will not object to my recommendation of the competition, given that in this case the coin in question was already encapsulated by NGC and they are the ones with the conservation service.
I recently used NCS for the first time, on a modern proof gold coin that had some carbon spots. They did a great job, not only on the conservation but also with the Photovision images, which I also heartily recommend you spend the extra ten bucks or whatever to get. Proof coins can be tough to photograph.
My coin, before:
After:
Thank you. They are in a SDB right now, but I plan on joining the ANA and contacting Hugh Woods ASAP. There are some crazy things going on with my life, so when it calms down a bit (end of summer, fingers crossed) I will start pursuing insurance, conservation/preservation and joining the correct organizations to further this hobby that I have been so lucky to have fallen into!
Good luck, hope to see you back and engaged with the hobby.
Not at all. I am in the greater Los Angeles, California area. I looked up major coin shows and could plan on attending the show that takes place in Long Beach, but it would have to wait for a bit until my personal life settles down. For the here and now the two coins are in a SDB, because someone very close to me is a coin enthusiast (amateur) and when they looked at the coins they recommended I get them out of my home and secured until I had them looked at and evaluated.
Thank you! I lurked in/on different coin boards for months and KNEW I chose the correct forum to post in when I started reading here! The knowledge, guidance and intellect on this board is, in my opinion, second to none.
Thank you for this. I need to plan on a course of action more quickly than I think I’ve been considering.
This is a solid plan
WOW - I don’t know what to say; THANK YOU! Again - I am SO glad I chose this forum to post to!